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-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   Wallets at Body Scan Machines (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1107328-wallets-body-scan-machines.html)

ediemac1 Jul 20, 2010 11:02 am


Originally Posted by Knobee (Post 14332528)
It is a requirement at RDU -- Flying out on Sunday, if asked to go through the WBI, you have to remove EVERYTHING from your pockets and remove your belt.

I refused and was held for 2 minutes until someone capable of doing a pat-down was found. During that time, 8 TSOs were standing around on the far end of the WBI line.

I watched and 100% of the people going through the WBI were given a secondary pat. I asked why and was told that the specific machine there provides only a "cookie cutter outline" with red dots where "suspicious" materials might be -- everyone has something that triggers the red-dot, so everyone gets an additional feel-up.

Seems like a GREAT system.

On the other hand, Portland is beautiful.. wish you were here. :p

Just curious, Knobee, which lane were you in? The only time I've been asked to suffer the WBI in RDU was when the elite/black diamind lane was longer and I used the center lane. I opted out with no real repercussions, but I have used the elite lane solely since then. I've never seen them take anyone from that lane to the WBI. In fact, with the current set-up, not sure that they could without climbing over lots of stuff.

essxjay Jul 20, 2010 11:09 am


Originally Posted by docmonkey (Post 14333282)
Locking a wallet in one's briefcase? Does that take more or less time than it takes to remove one's shoes and put them back on again? How do you find the time for the shoe routine?

It's not about finding *time*. It's about taking proper care to secure one's belongings. I simply choose not to be intimidated into rushing (more below).


Originally Posted by nbs2 (Post 14333327)
I normally keep my ID in my pocket with my BP and PC card and the rest of my pocket essentials get buried in a way that most people would have to dig.

My rollaboard and laptop bag both have flat zippered front pockets so there's really no digging.

At the X-ray belt my stuff goes through the shute in the same order everytime: shoes, locked rollaboard, laptop, laptop bag. I simply pop my wallet + BP/passport + watch inside the front pocket of the laptop bag and slap on the combo lock just before shoving it through, taking care to spin just one of the four dials by the same two digits every time.

Once on the other side the reacquisition routine is as swift as predictable: shoes slip on; rollaboard comes off (handle up and re-positioned to go); laptop slips inside laptop bag; watch, ID and wallet come out if needed right away (though mostly I leave 'em there til I get to the gate or lounge), laptop bag goes over shoulder and I'm off knowing all my most valuable possessions are secure. If a TSO feels the need to secondary me, they do so pretty much at my pace rather than theirs.

The drill is so rote by now I don't have much occasion to worry about how awake I am or how much commotion may be around me. Mindfulness practice has payed off handsomely for me at the c/p. I try to remember to breathe as slowly and deeply as I can throughout the process, which helps me stay focused and calm at the task at hand.

Hard as it is resisting the slide into the rush-rush cultural norm, there is a time and place for deliberateness.

FliesWay2Much Jul 20, 2010 11:34 am


Originally Posted by star_world (Post 14333063)
I am genuinely shocked. I don't know how you find the time to do this.

It probably takes 20 seconds going into the carry-on and about 20 seconds coming back out.


Originally Posted by nbs2 (Post 14333327)
Is there any reason that burying it at the bottom of the carry on wouldn't work? I normally keep my ID in my pocket with my BP and PC card and the rest of my pocket essentials get buried in a way that most people would have to dig. I just make sure to pack so that I know how to Jenga my stuff back out with minimal effort after getting through Smurfville.

Depending on my mood, I'll dig the stuff back out at the lounge or while still hanging with the Smurfs.

Sure -- that would work. The only additional risk is that a screener could start tearing into your carry-on out of sight while you're being frisked or strip-searched. Regardless, I would make sure you hid your wallet in a reasonably private place out of sight of the checkpoint.

nbs2 Jul 20, 2010 11:46 am


Originally Posted by doober (Post 14333464)
Hope Flies.... doesn't mind if I put my two cents in......if you just bury it without locking the bag, it still allows a screener to get into the bag possibly without your knowledge. With a combo lock, they have to come to you to ask you to open it.

Flies, would it be safe to say that your carry-on doesn't get searched too often?

I realize that my method isn't as secure at locking the carryon - but in cases where the locking isn't feasible (like a diaper bag) or a lock just isn't handy, I would think that the burying could be sufficient.

In the end, I just wonder how efficient the Smurfs are at stealing. Getting to the bottom of my backpack takes a significant effort on the best of days. Unless they are getting me away from my bag for more than 15-20 second, they aren't going to be able to get to my stuff. And unless they have 45-60 seconds, they aren't going to be fishing with out some noticeable effect on the shape of the bag.

The thread does have me thinking maybe I'll go invest in some zip ties to augment my disappearing small combination lock collection.

essxjay Jul 20, 2010 12:23 pm


Originally Posted by star_world (Post 14332173)
Good lord. With steps like this, planning for a day trip must be like a small expedition!

You have a very active imagination. :)

Does anyone who flies a significant amount think for a second that this is a pragmatic solution to this "problem"?
Having put far longer than a second of thought into the matter, it occurs to me that the ounce of prevention adage is rather applicable here. Can't speak for the very FFers here, but the additional 30-45 seconds my c/p routine requires is rather inconsequential in light of potential headaches should my most valuable possessions go temporarily or permanently MIA.


Originally Posted by star_world (Post 14332266)
To respond to your second point - sorry, but the passenger was an idiot.

Under the circumstances blaming the theft victim seems a bit mean spirited. How many balls can one be expected to juggle perfectly and every time given the level of madness allowed to reign at the c/p?


Originally Posted by FriendlySkies (Post 14333386)
Do you use a TSA lock, or a combo lock that they can't unlock with a TSA key?

Not to ignite an ethics debate but why would one even consider a TSA approved lock? Sanctioning the very agency that prompts us to act in ways to thwart them seems counterproductive.

tusphotog Jul 20, 2010 12:56 pm


Originally Posted by essxjay (Post 14333607)

At the X-ray belt my stuff goes through the shute in the same order everytime: shoes, locked rollaboard, laptop, laptop bag. I simply pop my wallet + BP/passport + watch inside the front pocket of the laptop bag and slap on the combo lock just before shoving it through, taking care to spin just one of the four dials by the same two digits every time.

Same here, minus the lock. What kind of laptop bag and how big of a lock are you using? I couldn't care less about my rollaboard since it's just clothes, but the lock on the laptop bag which has my phone, ipad and eventually my wallet sounds intriguing, and really shouldn't add more than a few extra seconds.

Wimpie Jul 20, 2010 12:57 pm


Originally Posted by Knobee (Post 14332528)
everyone has something that triggers the red-dot, so everyone gets an additional feel-up.

As well as a dose of radiation at no extra cost!:(

star_world Jul 20, 2010 1:01 pm


Originally Posted by essxjay (Post 14334105)
You have a very active imagination. :) Having put far longer than a second of thought into the matter, it occurs to me that the ounce of prevention adage is rather applicable here. Can't speak for the very FFers here, but the additional 30-45 seconds my c/p routine requires is rather inconsequential in light of potential headaches should my most valuable possessions go temporarily or permanently MIA.

My response was intended to draw attention to the "warfare" / "tinfoil hat" mentality that is so prevalent on this board. Yes, I am genuinely shocked that anyone who travels regularly and has a reasonable level of situational awareness would ever consider that these extra steps were worthwhile. The ones that do are most likely the ones that enter every checkpoint in a hyper-sensitive fashion, just waiting for the chance to find something that violates their "constitutional rights". I honestly don't believe that theft by TSOs or other passengers is a significant enough issue to warrant doing anything other than dropping a wallet (or watch, etc) into a zipped pocket.

But everyone's entitled to take whatever preventative steps they want - of course :)


Originally Posted by essxjay (Post 14334293)
Under the circumstances blaming the theft victim seems a bit mean spirited. How many balls can one be expected to juggle perfectly and every time given the level of madness allowed to reign at the c/p?

That is common sense that should be applied anywhere, regardless of the situation or the level of assault on the senses that surely accompanies every trip through a security checkpoint ;) I don't think it's mean-spirited at all.


Originally Posted by essxjay (Post 14334293)
Not to ignite an ethics debate but why would one even consider a TSA approved lock? Sanctioning the very agency that prompts us to act in ways to thwart them seems counterproductive.

So - you go through these steps in an attempt to "thwart" screeners? Do you regard them as a bigger threat to your belongings at a checkpoint than other passengers?


Originally Posted by Wimpie (Post 14334371)
As well as a dose of radiation at no extra cost!:(

Wait - you forgot to mention the cancer. Are you slipping up in your fearmongering? :rolleyes:

FliesWay2Much Jul 20, 2010 1:09 pm


Originally Posted by star_world (Post 14334403)
My response was intended to draw attention to the "warfare" / "tinfoil hat" mentality that is so prevalent on this board. Yes, I am genuinely shocked that anyone who travels regularly and has a reasonable level of situational awareness would ever consider that these extra steps were worthwhile. The ones that do are most likely the ones that enter every checkpoint in a hyper-sensitive fashion, just waiting for the chance to find something that violates their "constitutional rights". I honestly don't believe that theft by TSOs or other passengers is a significant enough issue to warrant doing anything other than dropping a wallet (or watch, etc) into a zipped pocket.

But everyone's entitled to take whatever preventative steps they want - of course :)

Do you regard them as a bigger threat to your belongings at a checkpoint than other passengers?

I lock up my wallet and other valuables at a TSA checkpoint for the same reasons I lock my car and my house. Part of the qualitative reason why my truck has never been stolen and my house has never been broken into is that there are plenty of other people who leave their keys in their cars and their houses unlocked in high-threat areas.

And, yes -- there has been enough documented evidence to make me conclude that screeners are a bigger threat than screenees.

essxjay Jul 20, 2010 1:14 pm


Originally Posted by nbs2 (Post 14333846)
I realize that my method isn't as secure at locking the carryon - but in cases where the locking isn't feasible (like a diaper bag)

I'm missing something here -- why would one lock a diaper bag? Or maybe you're suggesting a case where one would be tucking their wallet/ID in to a diaper bag? In that case, even a velcro pouch secured to the shoulder strap would be both practical and unobvious a place to stash small valuables.

or a lock just isn't handy
It's not difficult to plan for handy-ness. :) A small combo lock can be stashed in its opened/unlocked position in an interior or exterior pocket of the bag until needed for use. If you're nimble with one hand, leave the lock on an exterior zipper so it's never lost and just the set the last dial two digits removed from it's unlocked position.


The thread does have me thinking maybe I'll go invest in some zip ties to augment my disappearing small combination lock collection.
I have reusable zip ties. Sounds like a misnomer but really if you're just looking to stall having your bag opened then that's all you really need. And that's all a lock really buys you -- a delay tactic.

star_world Jul 20, 2010 1:25 pm


Originally Posted by essxjay (Post 14334503)
I have reusable zip ties. Sounds like a misnomer but really if you're just looking to stall having your bag opened then that's all you really need. And that's all a lock really buys you -- a delay tactic.

The same could be said for a zipped pocket - just a delay tactic. We're just talking about different degrees of delay tactics, reflecting various peoples' comfort levels ;)

halls120 Jul 20, 2010 1:31 pm


Originally Posted by star_world (Post 14332173)
Good lord. With steps like this, planning for a day trip must be like a small expedition! Does anyone who flies a significant amount think for a second that this is a pragmatic solution to this "problem"?

You're probably more at risk of getting mugged while you're stopped in the parking lot locking your bag ;)

Let's see. Next time I'm at the store, I spend a few extra minutes buying a combination lock for the times I may have to opt out of the WBI (IAD and DCA thankfully don't have the machines).

So, for a few extra minutes and a few extra bucks, I'm ready. Your hyperbole aside, what's the big deal?


Originally Posted by star_world (Post 14332266)
To respond to your second point - sorry, but the passenger was an idiot. I wouldn't leave my wallet out in the open anywhere in a public place, and I'd expect something like the above to happen if I did. But I would consider keeping it in a zipped pocket of a carry-on bag a good balance between safety and convenience. Would you?

While a zipped pouch gives some security, a lock gives more. At no real extra effort. At least for me.


Originally Posted by Tom M. (Post 14332376)
Actually I would consider keeping the wallet on my person as a no sacrifice of safety and far more convenient.

I simply don't see any value added to security to force people to remove their wallets.

Best answer so far.

N965VJ Jul 20, 2010 1:58 pm


Originally Posted by star_world (Post 14334403)
I honestly don't believe that theft by TSOs or other passengers is a significant enough issue to warrant doing anything other than dropping a wallet (or watch, etc) into a zipped pocket.

Sure, because every time a TSA employee is arrested, it's Just Another Isolated Incident™. :rolleyes:

Global_Hi_Flyer Jul 20, 2010 2:00 pm


Originally Posted by essxjay (Post 14334105)
You have a very active imagination. :) Having put far longer than a second of thought into the matter, it occurs to me that the ounce of prevention adage is rather applicable here. Can't speak for the very FFers here, but the additional 30-45 seconds my c/p routine requires is rather inconsequential in light of potential headaches should my most valuable possessions go temporarily or permanently MIA.

Exactly. ANd given that I caught someone trying to steal my laptop at a checkpoint one day, and given that I have a colleague that had something stolen at a checkpoint. And then there was the story(s) of the person who had jewelry (and watch?) stolen out of a bin.

Safe rather than sorry.


Originally Posted by star_world (Post 14334403)
Yes, I am genuinely shocked that anyone who travels regularly and has a reasonable level of situational awareness would ever consider that these extra steps were worthwhile.

I honestly don't believe that theft by TSOs or other passengers is a significant enough issue to warrant doing anything other than dropping a wallet (or watch, etc) into a zipped pocket.

But everyone's entitled to take whatever preventative steps they want - of course :)

You can continue your belief if you wish. Given the greater and greater amount of separation that TSA places between people and their posessions, the more likely stuff is going to happen.

But for you to be condescending to folks here for taking a few prudent steps to protect their belongings is out of line.

star_world Jul 20, 2010 2:07 pm


Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer (Post 14334811)
But for you to be condescending to folks here for taking a few prudent steps to protect their belongings is out of line.

You are sorely mistaken there. If you would like to take the time to read back through my previous posts, you will clearly see that I say that everyone's entitled to their own level of paranoia. If I'm surprised at the extent they will go to, so be it. That is far from condescending.


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