Hehe, I will confess, I am not certain about the belt, the last I remember, it was to be removed and xrayed if the person alarmed. There may have been changes since I was doing pat-downs.

I will tell you, I have found that even if you are uncertain of things (as a TSO), and explain :

1) Is there anything that I can help you with?/Do you need help with anything?

2) I apologize, but I am not certain exactly what the SOP says on this, hold on while I get the correct answer for you.

I have found that when folks with orthopedic shoes, braces, casts, and just about any kind of medical device/equipment that is not found on a majority of passengers - simply talking to them, and asking what I can help with makes it much easier. That way I am not trying to "lord over" someone, I find out how to best help that specific person.

If you do not alarm with shoes on, there should be some additional screening for the shoes and you, but that is not retaliation, simply SOP.

You are correct about the knife thing. I once saw pics of an LEO that ran up against a guy that was good with a straight razor - 400+ stitches and a few bags o blood later, he looked like Frankenstiens monster! This was a fairly well seasoned guy too, not a rookie by any stretch. The best thing that can happen is someone disarms the knife guy, and no-one gets hurt - the probable outcome with someone that has no training is a couple of people get some new scars and he takes a beat down - the worst outcome is a pile of people at his feet and he is undone by sheer numbers.

Read the statements - it all boils down to "keeping the flying public safe". Blades are a threat, they have been on the list for quite some time, the same for firearms, axes, crowbars - things that have been primarily identified as threat items (or the coveted dual-purpose - where they can be used for normal routines such as hammers, the aforementioned crowbar, etc) and can also be used to damage the airplane/passengers. I got ya on the garrote, that is an old school remedy that is best used from above or behind - I was always partial to the ink pen container minus the ink insert jabbed into the seam at the base of the neck and collarbone, get lucky and hit the jugular and we all get a fountain show! (snicker:rolleyes: lol) Many of us have had training on how to use common everday items as weapons, it is the items that are understood to be weapons that we are looking for. I hate finding a pen knife because I have carried one since I was about 4 years old, and STILL carry one away from work. I understand how some passengers feel "nekkid" without their "Buck" or "Barlow", so it makes me upset when some of those folks surrender them.

NEVER, EVER, underestimate a person because of their size... Worst beat down I ever took was from a guy about 5'2-3" and weighed in at about 110 - there were like 100 punches thrown and exactly 2 of them were mine (hehe, I didn't like it so much when it happened, but I learned a very important lesson that day!).

I noticed on some recent travels that Tennis Rackets are apparently ok for carry on.

So a person can carry on a club but my 2 1/2" Old Timer is verboten.

Makes people wonder who writes the TSA rules!!

Idiots, of course. Was there ever any doubt?

I don't understand what the legal confusion about "artful concealment" is about. To me, it's simple: it goes to intent. I think everybody here agrees that it's a crime (i.e., USC, not CFR, though I'm not going to look up the number) to attempt to bring a weapon on an aircraft. But you can't commit a crime by accident. If a TSO finds a knife in my bag, I haven't comitted a crime unless it can be proven that I meant to bring it onto the plane and you can't do that because forgetting it was in my bag is at least as likely. But if I "artfully conceal" the knife, I can't claim it was inadvertent and therefore I have committed a crime and it seems appropriate to summon an LEO.

It sounds like the young heavyset girl with the bun in her hair that my husband had to deal with last fall. She went through my husband's briefcase soooo slowly asking him what each item was. She looked like she would kill her own mother. They tried to say that because we were on the golf course the day before, that his briefcase was alarming. Huh? Why would his briefcase alarm and not the shoes he wore on the course, which were in his carryon? Typical LIH TSA!! We won't be going back there for a long time.

Actually it was a taller (or tall-ish) blonde woman, middle aged, with a perpetual scowl. Hard to miss.

The one on the right? I'm sure that's her.....

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:4...s/SS-Women.jpg

You're assigning too high an intelligence to these people.

I'm a bit torn in this thread. On one hand I keep my belt on as well (it doesnt alarm either) but to avoid discussion about it I have my sweater or shirt hanging over it.

If someone tried to "smuggle" things like a knife or the live onboard then something smells fishy. This what has been described here as "artful concealment" should certainly warrant a secondary inspection and it was a severe thing that was hidden LEO involvement.

Just because someone cant get through the cockpit door or blow the plane I would not feel comfortable with things allowed to be carried onboard the plane. Yes, the plane isnt leaving it's route but in the back some idiot is stabbing folks... I think primary priority should be the safety of those onboard as the most vulnerable and not those somewhere on the ground. A focus that went a bit in the wrong directtion after impressive and shocking pictures on 9/11. Now considering in F/C there are full sets of cutlery handed out at many airlines I still have to be reasonable and consider some things (incl travelling) as the risk of life.

DING DING DING. We have a winner. When she was proven wrong, she practically threw a fit. It all led to a retaliatory gate search of just me and my friend.

I wrote to the TSA and was given the standard boilerplate response about highly trained professionals, heightened state of alertness, etc. Pretty much a kindly worded "we don't give a flying rat's hiney" answer. As with you, I will not be returning to LIH anytime soon.

Certainly you have been there for vacation purposes, right !?

Wouldnt it be a shame if you dont go back to this nice place just because of some jerk at whatever institution be it TSA or a Ticket Agent annoyed you on your previous visit ?

Yes, it is indeed annoying. But in the end that person will go back to their miserable life and you are looking forward to your next holiday, flying home in F. Weigh it out in your head ! ;)

Oh please. Some fool with a short bladed knife does not put the full plane in danger. Quite a few passengers will take him down. We make light of the TSA because of the huge amount of money spent on the system that would be better spent on intelligence agencies, international co-operation, AND IMPROVING TSA internal workings (data bases etc.)

Every step up in screening that TSA make only requires terrorists to step up the level of assault. Once TSA makes it extremely difficult the terrorists will focus on TSA inspection lines and when that is restricted they will switch to commuter trains, buses etc. So I hold my tongue when being subjected to such nonsense and look forward to the day when we become 'land of the brave' again and get real.
Stick a sharpened ball point pen into someones kidney or liver and you will easily take a life. But really what do you do then to bring the flyers under control...show them you have a six pack of BIC pens or maybe you will pull that frightening sharpened blade out of your belt. Really....TSA must think they are dealing with Wylie Coyote.
That is why some of us frequent flyers resent the programs.

Here is a question, is the TSA legal under the fourth amendment to the constitution? I'm not certain it is. To quote Ben Franklin "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." The fourth amendment states "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." It is my belief that the TSA executes searches that are unreasonable and hence contrary to the fourth amendment.

TSO1973: Do you think artful concealment is unlawful?
 

What you think about this is relevant to this conversation. I'm only asking for your opinion. Will you please share it with us?

Interesting conversation, but if I may...

As far as I know "artful concealment" itself is not illegal. However, many people are charged with attempting to circumvent airport security - state law - when the do artfully conceal something that is prohibited in an attempt to enter the sterile area. Do all states have such laws? My guess - just a guess - is that all states do/would have laws regarding circumventing ariport security. But I'm not going to spend the time to look it up, sorry.

So i guess it's up to individual DA interpertation as to whether or not someone accussed of artful concealment who attempted to enter the sterile area has done something illegal or not. And then up to a judge/jury.