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Old Apr 17, 2010 | 12:02 pm
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Spiff
Originally Posted by goalie
the tsa screwed the pooch and wasted a truck load of my hard earned tax dollars
SSDD
simple simon, dumb dora?
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Old Apr 17, 2010 | 1:15 pm
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Originally Posted by LessO2
There is nothing I can say that would help what you're looking for.
What makes you think I am looking for something?
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Old Apr 17, 2010 | 4:07 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
What makes you think I am looking for something?
Yes, I think you looking for explosives trace portal. Now, TSA has been already removed old explosives trace portal out of security checkpoint. Because it has been lots of changes from few years ago. So I didn't see it at checkpoint A from last weekend. I was on their way from PHX-PHL-ZRH and I didn't see ETD puffer machines. So that's why TSA were removable all ETD out of security checkpoint. Because they doesn't use it the ETD at all. Because SSSS extra security screening is no longer existing.
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Old Apr 17, 2010 | 6:34 pm
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Here is my problem. The puffer machines worked in the lab, they just had problems in the field. That means they were close, and should of went back to the lab and tweaked it some.
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Old Apr 17, 2010 | 7:27 pm
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The puffers originally had a seven second read time. When they got out to the field the time began to increase to 15 seconds then finally 35. Obviously having everyone take 35 seconds would have caused long lines. TSA advised GE they would not accept another shipment of the puffers until the problem was corrected. Smiths Detection also had a puffer but it was much bigger and needed additional space for the air compressor. Smiths bought the GE division that made the puffers and they haven't redesigned either version.

As far as the WBI or as they are called now AIT (Advanced Imaging Technology) the backscatter and Millimeter wave both work well but had to be scaled back due to the privacy concerns. There is another technology that does as good if not better job without the privacy issues, the Thermal Body Scanner.

http://homelandsecuritynewswire.com/...ivacy-concerns

http://www.isconimaging.com/iscon1000d.html

The Thermal Scanner has just gone into the TSA for certification.

The President has ordered 150 initial AIT machines then 300 addition to be deployed by the end of 2010. 1000 by 2011.
Hopefully the Thermal Body Scanner can be certified quickly and turn the tide of deployment away from the AITs.

Last edited by WhyNotKnow; Apr 17, 2010 at 7:32 pm
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Old Apr 17, 2010 | 7:57 pm
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answer

Spiff got it right. The machines had a squirrel cage fan in them and they moved A LOT of air ALL the time. They had a cloth type filter inside that was much like a vacuum cleaner bag and it was prone to getting very dirty and the prescribed maintenance interval would not keep the machines running.
The cost got to be too much and they were pulled.
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Old Apr 17, 2010 | 7:59 pm
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At risk of inviting a chorus of "duhs", sounds like redesign and redeploy to me. Edison had a few prototypes that failed, too. He never gave up.
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Old Apr 17, 2010 | 8:10 pm
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Originally Posted by LuvAirFrance
At risk of inviting a chorus of "duhs", sounds like redesign and redeploy to me. Edison had a few prototypes that failed, too. He never gave up.
That's reasonable.@:-) Just wish that the folks running TSA back then had the foresight to call out responsibility for design changes/environmental testing requirements. This would be a moot point if they had.

A non invasive, reliable means for explosives detection would go a long way towards improving TSA's image.
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Old Apr 17, 2010 | 8:12 pm
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Its really the one thing the situation is crying out for. All these other search methods are mere substitutes. Actually, it should be like mall stores where you are sniffed at the entry doors of the airport. Don't want explosives anywhere inside.
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Old Apr 19, 2010 | 9:18 pm
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The TSA does not design the machines. The manufacturers develop and design the machines and submit them for certification. Originally the machines were tested at the FAA labs on the grounds of the Atlantic City Airport. They are not tested at a TSA facility on the grounds of DCA. It is not just a matter of TSA saying redevelop the machine. If the manufacturer has dumped the project then it is pretty much dead.
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Old Apr 19, 2010 | 9:52 pm
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Originally Posted by eyecue
Spiff got it right. The machines had a squirrel cage fan in them and they moved A LOT of air ALL the time. They had a cloth type filter inside that was much like a vacuum cleaner bag and it was prone to getting very dirty and the prescribed maintenance interval would not keep the machines running.
The cost got to be too much and they were pulled.
Dyson can figure out how to make a vacuume that doesn't get clogged, without a bag. Someone could figure out how to make a puffer work without stripping 2,000,000 people a day.
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Old Apr 19, 2010 | 9:59 pm
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Originally Posted by WhyNotKnow
The TSA does not design the machines. The manufacturers develop and design the machines and submit them for certification. Originally the machines were tested at the FAA labs on the grounds of the Atlantic City Airport. They are not tested at a TSA facility on the grounds of DCA. It is not just a matter of TSA saying redevelop the machine. If the manufacturer has dumped the project then it is pretty much dead.
But that's not what happened.

The EntryScan3 is still in production: http://www.morphodetection.com/produ...ace-detection/
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Old Apr 19, 2010 | 10:55 pm
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What machine is used at CN Tower in Toronto? I was there in late Sept 09 and went through one of the puffer machines before boarding the elevator to the observation deck. The process took about 5 seconds. Only part that caught me by surprise was when a puff of air hit me on the side of the head. Other than that it not an unpleasant and the security guard was 100x nicer and more respectful than your average TSO. Can't provide much feedback on how much of a bottleneck the system can be as my friend and I went during a weekday morning when there were fewer visitors. She was wearing a skirt and worried that she would be less than modest. The puff of air was not powerful enough to cause any dignity issues.
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Old Apr 20, 2010 | 8:26 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by WChou
What machine is used at CN Tower in Toronto? I was there in late Sept 09 and went through one of the puffer machines before boarding the elevator to the observation deck. The process took about 5 seconds. Only part that caught me by surprise was when a puff of air hit me on the side of the head. Other than that it not an unpleasant and the security guard was 100x nicer and more respectful than your average TSO. Can't provide much feedback on how much of a bottleneck the system can be as my friend and I went during a weekday morning when there were fewer visitors. She was wearing a skirt and worried that she would be less than modest. The puff of air was not powerful enough to cause any dignity issues.
The likely problem: Not Invented Here.

I thought the same thing when I went thru the puffer at the CN Tower in summer of 08. Worked fine and it was very busy there too. Sounds like a TSA flub (big surprise).
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Old Apr 20, 2010 | 10:09 am
  #30  
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When you're all about theatre...

Spending big $$$$ on low visibility items such as an effective preventative maintenance program for your explosives detection instruments is not going to happen. Tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of new uniforms can be bought with those $$$$.
Puffers are still in production because other industries use them and have made them work effectively and reliably.

And while we're talking of not thinking things through; if WBI cannot image through adult diapers, colostomy bags, etc. then TSA will either have to
1) subject pax with those items (and the item) to hand search scrutiny or
2) will have to largely ignore those pax showing that image block.

If the course is 1), even TSA will not be able to ignore the outcry as it becomes apparent to all who is "equipped" with items that they really don't want the world to know about.
if 2) then WBI is an expensive, intrusive annoyance with less than zero security improvement

Seems to me the only reason WBI would be viewed as a better security asset than a puffer is if the bottle of water in a pax cargo pant pocket is perceived as a bigger threat than a pax with traces of explosives on their person. Sadly, it seems many in TSA are that delusionary paranoid about simple bottles of water.
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