So, Ron, on your list, I guess the NOAA Corps and Uniformed Public Health Service Corps don't count? I talk to the Commander of the NOAA Corps 2-3 times per week and I'll fill him in on his service's new status as the TSA see it. Ron, I'd suggest that a short skim through Title X is in your best interests.

I'll help, Halls and add a couple of others --

1. Name one screener who has been nominated by the president and confirmed by the Senate as a prerequisite to holding the position of TSA screener? Every commissioned officer who has ever served in any of the 7 uniformed services have followed this path. A "Commission" is a presidential appointment, even for the greenest second lieutenant.

2. Name one screener subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, even after retirement.

3. Name one screener who is eligible for POW status under the Geneva Conventions.

4. Name one screener who retains his or her rank following retirement and who may, at any time, be recalled to active duty until age 65?

However, it also protects bad people who are affecting the operation. So it can have everything to do with operations - the people are what make it operate.

:eek: I just agreed with Ron!

Did I say anywhere that the list I provided was a comprehensive list? No.
Did I equate service with the TSA to military service of any kind? No.

Why all the nit-picking and hair-splitting? Can’t handle the idea that I am right on something? Do all of those who engage in this type of inane activity of splitting hairs here have such a low self esteem that they cannot agree with someone that they usually don’t agree with, even when they are right?

Someone here asked me to act like an adult, well folks people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw rocks. Time to grow up people, and stop arguing like a bunch of teenagers.

Valid point and I agree with you %100 with this. It really annoys me when I work next to someone who is unprofessional. I complain to management about the people and nothing gets done. They use their phones on the floor, yell across five lines, call in sick once a week and nothing is done about it. But I show up for work ten minutes late because I miss a bus...

Furthermore, no matter how professional I am, you will only remember my co-worker who was goofing off; I don't want to be grouped in with that. I work in what seems like a high school at times and I am really tired of it.

Back to the origins of this, protecting the useless isn't what I meant in terms of impact on operations, but it does.

My list of the 7 uniformed services was comprehensive, but you decided to change it.

So take the first step and stop attacking people simply because they don't agree with you, and admit it when you are wrong.

My other knock on the system (and I was in a union at one point) is that there is no real incentive to go beyond mediocrity. You can't really reward the ones that do a good job - the ones that are professional. Everyone generally has to be treated equal. So if, for example, working harder doesn't provide a benefit of being able to earn more, what's the point?

I think the seniority system is bad for the same reasons, and it's usually the people at the low end that lost out. When my friend worked a few summers on the PennDOT road crews (which were union), he was the one shoveling all the asphault for $5 an hour while the more "senior" people sat and watched him work. Great for the senior guys, but sucks to be on the bottom, especially when everyone is supposed to be doing the same work (or at least their roles).

I'd rather see the good employees (even within TSA - I'm leaving policy and rules out of this purposely) be rewarded for doing well as that will give us a better system overall.

Your friends union experience is very different than mine. I worked with police/fire dispatchers that all did the same job and rotated among positions. It didn't matter whether you were the most junior employee or the most senior employee. Everybody worked, and I, as a supervisor, could easily identify those that were not carrying the load and deal with that.

Sounds like your friends work crew is not being properly supervised. To me that would indicate poor management versus the consequences of a union. Why aren't the managers out there making everyone shovel?

I worked in one police agency that has a performance step built into the salary schedule. It could be taken away if you did not meet standards. I did see it taken away from those that abused sick leave, for instance. No reason that TSA couldn't have something like that, and poor performers don't get the extra salary.

You need to have effective managers, though.

You just can't make this up....

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Please cite your source for this assertion.

I'd like see a citation as well, one that actually documents the original assertion.:rolleyes:

Can't wait to meet my first Journeyman TSO. What would apprenticeship be like ?

Training on absolute boredom randomly punctuated by dealing with people who look like they might be traveling somewhere fun, taught by experts.

There are differences between the following:

1. Being a Uniformed Service of the United States.
2. Being a "civilian" (in the coloquial sense)
3. Being a "non-civillian" (in the coloquial sense).
4. Wearing a uniform.
5. Not wearing a uniform.
6. Being part of a government agency.
7. Not being part of a government agency.
8. Being a law enforcement officer.
9. Not being a law enforcement officer.

Army, Navy, USAF, Marine, USCG, PHS, NOAA are the only members of group (1) under title 10. Membership in groups (2) through (9) have nothing to with group (1)-- read Title 10 for confirmation of that.

TSO's wear a uniform, are part of a governmant agency, are not LEO's and can be civillians or non-civillians depending on how one wishes to use the term coloquially.

Official use of a word differ from the coloquial use of the word. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian for a summary of how some use the term "civillain" in official capacities).

If you want to use the term "Uniformed Service" coloquially, then that is fine, but in the legal sense, there are exactly seven (7) members, and they are listed above; the TSA is not among them nor is any local or federal LE. In the coloquial sense, you can consider anyone you like a "uniformed service" employee.

I'm going to have as little interaction with police officers as possible, and if I do come into contact with them, it's unlikely that this topic is likely to be the most pressing issue. All the same, whether or not I mention it, whether or not I believe it, the fact remains: police officers are civilians. They are not in the armed services, they are not immune from the regular criminal and civil justice system, they are not ultimately commanded by POTUS, and, in fact, if they weren't civilians, then they wouldn't be able to do their regular law enforcement job under the Posse Comitatus Act which restricts the use of the military for public order under normal circumstances.

I agree with you that there are plenty of cops who seem to think they're in a different class to the citizenry who employs them and from which they're drawn, and think it's sad that being a civilian is somehow seen as a sign of inferiority, but "facts is facts"...