Yaatri

The liquids nonsense has got to stop. How many children are we going to starve in the name of security? As it is, TSA rues are cryptic and inconsistent, partly due to, as SATTSO points out, to variation in equipment available at various sites and partly because TSA thinks they will keep terrorists guessing by never spelling out what one has to do get through the security smoothly. Adding more items to the list of items to be excluded after any incident such as the U.K. plot, the shoe bomber or the underwear bomber shows that there is a lack of a coordinated policy on aviation safety. \All of a sudden, liquid in access of 100 ml becomes a threat. We have to wait for the suspected terrorists to tell us what is safe and what is not. Do our security experts have no brains in their heads?

bdschobel

Rhetorical question?

Bruce

Uncreative1

Questions bolded by me. my answers in regular font.

So this happened on the retrun trip? Yes

Either I don't fully understand the terminology or you are using it incompletely. My understanding of swabbing is a small swab is rubbed on the surface of the item and then tested for explosives. Wand is used for detecting metals in objects in situ. What is wand swab?
It was a black wand with a white cloth on the end. It looked to me that he was touching the cloth on the end to the backpack and the cans.

How long was extrra screening going to take? There is litttle doubt that TSA is a hindrance to security than not, but how long was the extra screening going to take? What did you do without our daughter's food? How long was your flight? So, if, and that's a big IF, if any of this helped security in any way, it was at the cost of starving your daughter.
I don't know how much time it would have taken. I was scared and felt threatened and harrassed. The one who was talking to me didn't tell me any of that. He was focusing on the fact that the cans were not in a baggie and I was explaining to him what we had read on the TSA site. It was put to me "Consent to additional screening or allow us to dispose of them and go through." Lots of ifs. One of the ifs that I thought of was what if they want to take more of our things? Let the two cans go and they leave us alone. Add on top of that the line of passengers behind us who were being given clearance and rushing around us. It felt chaotic. Fight or flight mode took over and I didn't feel we would win a "fight" as at this point I was so confused because we went by the TSA site info and was being told we did the wrong thing.

I wrote it earlier that at the next airport we purchased a bottle of apple juice and prayed everything went as scheduled.

Unfortunately, you did n not know what you could have done to be firm and assertive and you panicked. Next time it happens, as for their super visor or the airport''s security director, (I thinking known as FSD), if you absolutely do not want your feeding tube food cans to be subjected to extra screening, which, might or might not be necessary. If keeping the food is more important, and there is no alternative, go through the extra screening and then file your complaints. Unless they have started to circle their wagons and or unless someone there has an attitude you will get through the extra screening in reasonable time. If you do miss your flight, the airline will try to accommodate you on the next flight. If tne next flight was the next day, or if catching the next flight will make you miss a flight that is not so frequent, catching the next flight would not be an option . I am not saying you have done anything wrong, but thinking through in detail helps you make a choice that's best for you and your daughter. It's so sad when a 4 year old is forced to starve just because grown ups (the idiots at TSA) or parents ( in some cases) don't act in aa reasonable manner.
I would never give up a medically necessary item even if I have to miss a flight.
Like I said, I felt as if letting the cans go was the best option to us getting home. The additional screening was lots of unknown with the risk of still having to let the cans go AND missing our flight. So then we'd be sitting in an airport in a worse position than letting the cans go and if all went according to schedule having more Pediasure available in a set number of hours. I hope I'm explaining it well and putting it into the right words.

Mr. Gel-pack

I think I understand you. Now matter how much TSA & its boosters say things are simple and fast, the moment you start deviating from "average" you rapidly escalate into nonsense and unpredictability. You get blamed for trusting what you read on TSA's website, or not following some inconsistently documented procedure, or caught in the TSA catch-all: "To ensure traveller's security, transportation security officers (TSOs) may determine that an item not on the prohibited items chart is prohibited. In addition, the TSO may also determine that an item on the chart is dangerous and therefor may not be brought through the security checkpoint." Conforming to the clearly indicated "normal behavior" is a very attractive option when they threaten increased scrutiny and detention. I've succombed myself. (That the TSOs try to funnel you into "normal behavior" to ease their jobs is another sad defect of the system.)

TSA isn't something a non-terrorist can count on.

ND Sol

And that is the point that has been made about liquid explosives. The ones that work "would most likely explode in the passengers bag while they walked and moved the bag." Yet, we still have to go through the LGA farce.

That raises the quandary for the TSA. Red Teams have sneaked items through under similar circumstances. But the risk to your health greatly outweighs the small probability of WEI being found under your dressing.

cordelli

What a fascinating read. I would never ever have handled it the way it was handled.

I would have had the liquids out for inspection, and if they told gave me a choice of secondary screening or tossing it, I would have submitted to secondary and not said

"I guess toss it and we will figure something else out if it means we can go."

If I felt the secondary was unjustified, I would have taken it up with a supervisor after it was completed (or asked for one there) or complained later, but I never would have said go ahead and toss it, and then complain when they did what I just told them to do.

If they were way off base with their suggestion for a secondary, deal with it later, but when they said secondary or garbage, it became pretty apparent the only way the formula was getting through was after a secondary.

studentff

If the TSO that did this is still employed, TSA is tolerating child abuse and neglect. If the TSO that did this is still employed at the end of this week by which time what happened should be absurdly clear, TSA is advocating child abuse and neglect.

It's time for this abusive power-tripping agency to be reigned in. If the government won't hold them accountable, we the people need to find out the identities of these power trippers, go stand in front of their houses with pitchforks, torches, and signs, and make life a living hell for them, their spouses, and their kids. Only then will they begin to understand, and only then will their colleagues be fearful enough to deter this sort of behavior in the future.

If you know a TSO or their spouse/kid, tell them about this case. If you're flying this week, pledge to tell at least one TSO (perhaps a TDC or WTMD TSO since those are the easiest to make contact with). Let them know that they personally need to rise up against the power-tripping outrage that is their agency, and that until they do, you hold them personally responsible for it. Make them feel small. Make them feel insignificant. Make them want to crawl into a hole and never come out.

Enough is enough. TSA needs to go.

AngryMiller

The staples were visible through the dressing had he bothered to look. This was at the gate AFTER I had already passed through the main checkpoint. SSSSS on boarding pass. The dressing was thin (1 layer of translucent surgical tape). The wife, at first, calmly tried explaining to the TSO that I had recently undergone surgery to remove a kidney before going off on him. His response? Step back ma'am. Think that the only reason he passed me on without removing the tape was I was about to paint him with my stomach contents.

Funny thing is that neither of us remember much about the main checkpoint so it must have been pretty uneventful.

Had he removed the tape he might have gotten a up close and personal view of abdominal contents as the incision was about 12 inches long.

Global_Hi_Flyer

The TSA operates on intimidation. Ron will tell you that intimidation is "standard security procedure". And it's easier to intimidate someone with special needs.

AngryMiller

Sadism alive and well at checkpoints when a defenseless person gets treated shabbily.

polonius

One of the lessons I hope you learned is never let yourself be intimidated by these clowns. Scared? Fight or flight mode? Because of some TSOs? Are you kidding me?

Firstly, arrive a bit early. I always have enough time so that they can ask me DY...T? and I can say, "makes no difference to me," and they can do all the childish retaliatory stuff they want, but I'm not going to miss my flight.

Second, don't let yourself get flustered because of angry stares from other passengers or what not. I invariably hold up the line as I hold my ground. That's one of their classic manipulative strategies: "think of the people behind you." THEY should think of the people behind me. I'm thinking about ensuring I'm not abused.

Third, the TSA website is b*****t.

Fourth, the TSA never follows their own rules. They make up their own on the spot, you should do the same. Pull out a video camera. Tell the guy your willing to let him confiscate if he's willing to instruct you to do so, ON TAPE. If he's not doing anything wrong, he's got nothing to hide, right?

mre5765

In hindsight, asking this forum when you have medically necessary liquids and how to handle it would have been the wise thing to do before you flew.

I know this from experience.

While I despise the TSA, in this case, I am with the agency.

First, you knew you had liquids that exceeded the 100mL container/1 Litre bag rule, so you should have budgeted more time. Second, had you budgeted more time, there would have been no problem with the additional screening.

I once took ice packs through security. On the outbound, perhaps because I was using a cane (the packs were for icing my knee), they were not given a secondary. On the return, the TSO had a bit of s--- fit, and I stood my ground and said:
Took an extra 90 seconds. I thank this forum for being prepared.

What you did wrong was throw your kid's food in the trash. Assuming the TSA gave me a choice between traveling without medically necessary and this case, life supporting substances or not flying and keeping such stuff, I take the latter for the moment, and start screaming until every LEO and airline official in ear shot comes to the commotion. But I don't think the "don't fly" option was really the only one offered here.

I have a kid with special needs. I know what it feels like. Fortune has dealt your family a bad hand, and there are days when you feel like utter crap as result. The bad prognoses are the worst. Just because you are down, don't let the Man get you and especially your kid down.

IME, LEOs, border control officers, TSOs, teachers, doctors, store clerks, random strangers etc. will victimize your kid for the rest of her life for the simple reason that such professions attract bullies (and strangers are ignorant if not bullies). Bullies are simply insecure people who pick on the most vulnerable people. It has been so with my kid, and while I hope otherwise, I predict it will be so with yours.

You need stand up for your kid, because no one else will. By observing how you handle such situations, when she is an adult, and hopefully able to function more independently, she will learn from positive example you set. And dealing with the TSA is possibly the best training ground for you, and at age 4 not a minute too soon: wait till she starts school.

Anyway, lesson learned I hope. I hope you still take your daughter on travels, and I'm looking forward to a much more assertive Uncreative1 the next time she flies. Please do post the report after it happens.

^

Boggie Dog

I guess in TSA lingo a mugger sticking a gun in your back demanding your money or your life would be voluntary surrender if you gave the money to them.

FliesWay2Much

Sorry -- It's not about procedures, SOP, or calling over a supervisor. It's all about an airport security regime which openly is dressed (according to the public statements of the last politically-appointed Administrator) to command respect and, derivatively, to intimidate the flying public, especially those who rarely fly.

So, you combine this intimidation with a family fearing the wrath of the government if they don't cooperate with said perceived authority and you have parents who were coerced into making a bad decision involving their special-needs child and screeners who justify the situation seven ways to Sunday.

That's what is terribly wrong and why many of us "hate" the TSA and everything it stands for.

jkhuggins

I'm sorry, but I'm calling b-----t on this.

We have the parents of a child with special medical needs. They read all the information on the TSA website on how to travel in such situations. Following that advice allowed them to navigate TSA screening on their outbound leg with zero difficulties.

On their return leg, they encounter a TSO who doesn't know the rules as well as the passenger does (see the discussion about whether or not the oversized cans had to be in a baggie), and who bruskly tells them "submit to secondary screening or toss it" without explaining what "secondary screening" means.

And you're saying it's the parent's fault for not trusting what TSA says on its own website and, instead, taking the time to research the matter on a third-party website, where anybody and their uncle can claim to be an "authority" on security matters and post advice?

Talk about "blaming the victim" ...

If the TSO knows the rules better, and explains the rules better to the passenger, none of this happens. We shouldn't require passengers to know TSA's mysterious and secret procedures better than TSA knows them.

Keep the blame for this where it belongs: on TSA, not the parents.