QPRfan

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Gardyloo

How many days do you have available?

Don't take this wrong, but you're bouncing all over the place and it's not a very coherent itinerary, more a jigsaw puzzle. It also is going to include a lot of days where 5 hours behind the wheel is going to be difficult to manage.

Some ideas: Split this up into a couple of loops with a short, cheap domestic flight between them. I'd probably do a Washington-Oregon loop (Olympic NP, Mt. St. Helens, Columbia Gorge/Mt. Hood. Rainier) - map - https://goo.gl/maps/9UmTPuT2oBR2 and a separate Rocky Mountain one - Montana/Yellowstone/Glacier/Waterton etc. https://goo.gl/maps/wZXnADrjXaH2

I would drop both North Cascades and Crater Lake as both are very long drives absent a lot to do once you're there. I understand the appeal of a US national park "bucket list," but, for example, Crater Lake is a long, long drive in both directions, and summer comes very late to the rim of the lake. Every time I've been there in June, for example, the lake was invisible due to clouds and fog. Sucks after all day in the car just to get there. North Cascades National Park is primarily a wilderness/hike-in experience, with next to no visitor facilities located inside the park. The Methow Valley is fine (Sun Mountain is great) but it's five or six hours from anywhere.

Redwood National Park was not created (due to opposition from timber interests) until decades after the State of California had "cherry picked" the best groves for inclusion in California state parks. Redwood National Park isn't so much a destination as it is lines on a map; the core of the redwood country extends almost 200 miles from the Oregon state line south to northern parts of Sonoma County, with even more excellent groves of redwoods scattered down the coast all the way to Big Sur, south of Monterey. Do you plan to drive the Oregon coast one-way to San Francisco? It's a terrific drive, but needs several days on its own. It's important to note that in the Pacific west, it's often the case that state parks offer a better experience than national parks, owing to specific regional history.

If you're not thinking of a one-way trip (big bucks for car rental) then a third "loop" could be useful, one based out of San Francisco and including Big Basin or Henry Cowell Redwoods state parks north of Santa Cruz in the Monterey Bay area. This is a superb area for holidays with kids - it's very compact, very diverse, and can easily be visited on a "hub-and-spoke" basis. Map - https://goo.gl/maps/bsuzkNaGZrM2 Google the places shown on the maps.

But first, how long do you have?

QPRfan

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MissJ

"Timberline Lodge seems to have a lot more to see around it than I could find in Portland."


I'm not sure about this statement as Portland is a city and Timberline is a lodge that sits alone on the side of a mountain. There is nothing really around it. I personally love the Johnston Ridge Observatory and it is completely different than the Volcanic Monument. You're standing on a ridge looking into the side of a gigantic, exploded volcano. It's pretty awesome.

I'm a very fast traveler and like to keep moving, but yeah that's a ton of driving. But whatever suits you. I know things like the Going to the Sun Road took way longer than I expected when I was last in Glacier. First, you don't want to rush it, it's amazing. But also because there was a lot of traffic and it moved very slow. There was also some work going on at points in the road that took it down to one lane or dirt and really made a mess in some sections.

Eugene is okay, it has some good breweries but not a ton to do. Salem is boring. I lived in Portland for years and have been to pretty much every place listed. Times we have visited Crater Lake, we also stayed in Bend but wouldn't have had time to visit another park in the same day. CL is miles from nowhere and huge. Last time we were there, we woke up in Bend, headed down, and didn't leave CL until it was almost dark.

QPRfan

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djp98374

Day 1 Arrive into Seattle airport at 1120. ATAY IN sEATTLE
Day 2. Seattle, then to Mt Rainier stay near park or in park
Day 3. to Coeur dalene
Day 4. to Kalispell/whitefish, evening west side of glacier
Day 5. GTTSR night east side of glacier (*)
Day 6. east side of glacier (*)
Day 7. drive to red lodge
Day 8. beartooth highway stay in Yellowstone around canyon
Day 9. camyon, old faithful area. Stay in Big Sky
Day 10. Stay in Big Sky
Day 11. Do a trip to Bozeman. Stay in Big Sky.
Day 12. Visit Grand Prismatic Drive in Yellowstone NP. Stay in Big Sky
Day 13. Do a walk in Gallatin National Forest. Stay ib Big Sky
Day 14: drive to Ketchum with a stop at craters
Day 15. to Stanley to boise
Day 16. to Hood River
Day 17. to Portland
Day 18. to cannon beach
Day 19. to Lake quinault
Day 20. to Forks
Day 21. to Port Townsend
Day 22. Drive to Seattle airport for an evening flight.

(*)---with glacier----the lodging on the east side have 3 sets

1. in park lodging done by Xantera (Rising Sun, swiftcurrent , many glacier inn)
2. Glacier park inc lodging--they used to do in parjk lodging too but lost the contract--they handle St Marys and East glacier and a lodge in Waterton
3. other places are small inns, camping sites, and some lodging in browing. MT

there is more to see on the east side.

Gardyloo

Having now seen your itinerary I'll reemphasize my earlier concerns. In my view you're vastly underestimating the time needed to get from place to place, are not allowing enough time actually to see the places you're visiting. This is, of course, your trip, and you're free to discount any advice you get on an internet board, but given the fact that you're traveling through vast countryside with a small child, I just have to wonder when too much is too much. The trip you've outlined is feasible, but you're going to have several very long days in the car, with hours of rather boring scenery interspersed with nice views that last for a short time, followed by more hours in the car.

For example - and I know this doesn't sit well with some - Crater Lake in my view is a "90 minute" national park, meaning you drive hundreds of miles and the payoff is 90 minutes of nice scenery on the lake rim, followed by longer hours afterward.

Or days 18 and 19. You're driving to the Redwood National Park visitor center north of Eureka, then turning around and retracing the route back to Grants Pass. First, see my notes above regarding Redwood National Park. In my view you could have a FAR more pleasant and informative time by shortening this excursion so that you just visit the Jedediah Smith Redwoods State Park right on US 199 just before its junction with US 101 at Crescent City. No, it's not a national park to be ticked off your list, but it's better. Lots better. Then, instead of returning to (pleasant but boring) Grants Pass followed by driving the next day (more boring) up I-5 to Salem (good grief, why?) you could turn right at US 101 and head north along the Oregon coast. The southernmost 70 miles or so of the Oregon coast are the most scenic part of the whole region. You could spend the night in the very pleasant seaside town of Bandon, take your child for a walk along the beach at sunset - maybe look for tide pools, etc., and then the next day head comfortably all the way north to the Portland area, saving a whole day.

Here's a map showing this entire part of the trip - https://goo.gl/maps/Vrideo4S39q . What it includes:

- Jedediah Smith redwoods in lieu of the (so-so) Redwood National Park visitor center.

- Bandon for an overnight location rather than Grants Pass

- Follow OR Hwy 38 back to I-5. This is the quickest and most scenic route through the Coast Range; it passes through a pretty canyon along the lower Umpqua River. Look for numerous elk at a roadside refuge just east of Reedsport as you leave the coast.

- Look at McMenamin's Edgefield - https://www.mcmenamins.com/edgefield - as a possible overnight location in Troutdale, at the mouth of the Columbia Gorge. It's a very fun place with many on-site activities and attractions.

- Take a full day to explore the Columbia River gorge with its waterfalls, vista points, and the very fun fish hatchery at the Bonneville Dam, where your daughter can visit Herman the Sturgeon (huge, ancient fish viewed through underwater windows) and feed the baby trout from a 25c bag of food. Visit Panorama Point in Hood River and maybe stop at a "U-pick" farm for berries in the gorgeous Hood River Valley. Visit, but don't stay at Timberline Lodge, then stay the "saved" night either in Hood River or in The Dalles, east of Hood River.

- En route to Mount Rainier, stop at the quirky Maryhill Museum (Rodin in the sagebrush) and at the strange copy of Stonehenge built on the clifftops overlooking the big river, before heading north on US 97 through terrific "old west" scenery to Yakima. I'd spend the night in Yakima, then transit Mt. Rainier via the glorious Stevens Canyon Road, with stops at the Grove of the Patriarchs (awesome big trees) and the Reflection Lakes before joining the thousands of parked cars and their occupants doing forced marches around the Paradise visitor center. You'll be too early for wildflowers but certainly not the crowds. I wouldn't spend the night at Paradise but would continue west to the Seattle-Tacoma area.

This is but one case where some slight modifications and letting go of national parks as primary targets can pay dividends - in my view. There are other similar possibilities in the very ambitious first part of your itinerary. I would, for example simply skip North Cascades NP altogether; you will see more and better (and way more accessible) scenery in numerous other places on your trip, and save hours and hours of boring time in the car in the process.

I'll also mention that day 1 is - in my mind - exceptionally problematic. Do you REALLY want to sit on a plane with a two year old for ten hours (not to mention a much earlier arrival at LHR) and then, after two hours of immigration and customs, shuttle to the rental car center, spend five hours behind the wheel to Hurricane Ridge? Please.

Like I say, your trip.

Jedediah Smith Redwoods -



Oregon coast near Gold Beach



Bandon Beach



Bonneville Hatchery



Maryhill Stonehenge

MissJ

One of my absolute favorite ways to spend a day. Drive out the Gorge from Portland, stop and see the fish, lunch in Hood River, visit fruit stands and have a glass of cider and pick some flowers at The Gorge White House. Summer in the PNW is the best.

QPRfan

CKDGM

The time it will take to get your bags and go through customs will most likely be significantly more than the immigration wait time (I'm assuming you're not making this long a trip with only hand luggage).

Gardyloo

There's your problem. Anybody in the western US (or in Scotland, with which I'm also pretty familiar) who relies on Google Maps for driving times is making a serious mistake. Google is AT LEAST 30% optimistic on its times, and in my experience in western Washington, 50% or more is closer. Look, you need to know that everybody here has your interests at heart and are not trying to play some "gotcha" game.

Here are the factors, and a likely timeline, to address your plans. This regards the first day, but in some regard they can be extended or subsequent days.

First, you're arriving sometime in June. That's the middle of the Alaska cruise season, when flows through Seatac jump bigly, to use the phrase of a famous orange person. EVERYTHING slows down - border controls, queues for bag claim, queues for the rental car center shuttle, queues at the rental car counters, not to mention traffic which approaches gridlock, and next summer in Seattle the closure of a key north-south arterial.. well, just throw out the play book.

Let me lay out an imaginary but entirely likely alternate timeline for your day. I'll assume BA 53 arrives on time (although I live right under the pattern and am quite aware of when the BA flights arrive and depart, and in the summer it's NOT always on time. Seattle is getting more longhaul flights starting this spring - EI from DUB, CX from HKG, JL from NRT, and maybe increased frequency on other carriers - and the immigration and customs facility isn't scheduled to be expanded for another several years.)

Timing scenario -

Disembarkation and queue for immigration - 30 min. (Optimistic.)
Wait for bag claim No. 1, customs - 20 min.
Bag transfer to second belt (the border zone is in a satellite terminal and you will probably need to place your bags on a second conveyor while you take the automatic train to the main terminal for the second bag retrieval.) The total transit time to the street is seldom shorter than 15 minutes, 20 more likely
Walk to car rental center shuttle point (all rental cars are housed in an off-airport facility) - 10 min. via skybridge.
Queue for rental car shuttle - ?
Time at rental car center - arrival to drive-away - 30+ minutes. Note if this is on Thurs-Sun it can be significantly longer as cruise passengers and other tourists lengthen the queues.
So you're away from the airport roughly around 90 minutes after landing, i.e. 12:40 PM. I think this is still optimistic.

I'm going to talk about the two alternative routes between Seattle and Port Angeles. Here are the maps - (1) Via Bainbridge Island ferry - https://goo.gl/maps/Xuu8iMSvENo and (2) via Tacoma Narrows bridge - https://goo.gl/maps/rr6XDGqG8wF2

I will state this with little chance of being wrong: Anybody who does this drive and who sees these time estimates will simply laugh. Because they're laughable. Here's why:

On option 1, which is my preferred route because it minimizes city and freeway time, it doesn't take into account gridlock traffic on I-5 most afternoons. The possible alternative, taking WA 99, which parallels I-5 closer to the water, will be problematic because a key part of that route, the Alaskan Way Viaduct, is being closed in January and replaced with a tunnel that won't allow exits for the ferry dock. This roadway change will also result in more heavy truck traffic (to and from the port facilities) using I-5, further increasing congestion.

Google doesn't address queuing and waiting for the ferry. The Bainbridge boats sail every forty minutes or so, but in mid-summer, especially on Thurs-Sun, the afternoon boats often have a one-boat wait. Then the crossing takes 35 minutes plus load/off-load time. So from the rental car center at the airport to disembarkation from the ferry on Bainbridge Island you're looking - optimistically - at 2 hours. (It's important to note that, unlike option 2, over half of this time will have been spent NOT driving as you'll be waiting for, or crossing Puget Sound on, the ferry.)

Once you're on Bainbridge, the drive to Port Angeles is straightforward enough and takes two hours. I know Google says it's 95 minutes or so, but, frankly, Google is mistaken. So now it's around 4:30 PM, 12:30 AM in London.

The road from PA up to Hurricane Ridge takes an hour PLUS whatever wait time you'd have at the National Park gatehouse, which might be minimal, but, if it's on a Thurs-Sun, might not. Let's say it's not, and you're physically at the visitor center at 5:30. You look around for an hour, then drive back into PA for lodgings. It's now 7:30 PM, 3:30 AM in London. Assuming you got to Heathrow two hours before your flight, and were on the road an hour before that enjoying the HEX or the lovely M25, that means you and your two-year old will have been up for, what, 22 hours? More? And even then you'll still have to check into your accommodations, get a meal, get the child a bath or ready for bed... I mean, really?

Option 2 -

This looks faster on paper but generally it's not. What slows you down is traffic - leaving the airport, especially approaching Tacoma, across the Narrows Bridge, and - particularly - passing the Bremerton/Silverdale areas on the Kitsap Peninsula. Mid- to late afternoon is when the many military bases in the area - JB Lewis-McChord south of Tacoma, Bremerton Naval Yard, Silverdale Logistics Center and Bangor Submarine Base - all go through shift changes. The road infrastructure in the area is jammed with commuting military and civilian personnel daily between roughly 3 and 6 PM. This generally extinguishes the supposed time advantage the all-land route has over the Bainbridge ferry route, and in any case the Tacoma option is far, far less pleasant than being able to go up onto the deck of the ferry and watch the city skyline recede. So all things considered, by the time you're at PA, the schedules have generally come into sync, but with Option 2 having had considerably more time spent (with a 2-year old) in a car seat (mandatory) while Dad or Mum plays freeway tag.

Now I knows this all sounds pessimistic, and of course it's entirely possible you could be the exception to the rule - you'll sail through the airport, pull up to the ferry just in time to be the last car on, etc. But do you really want to start off a holiday with a 22- or 25-hour day while you travel through some of the best scenery in North America with no time to go to the loo or smell the salt air? Really?

By comparison, just imagine this instead.

Get off the plane, go get the car, and drive 45 minutes (probably 50 at that time of day) north on I-5 to the junction of WA 526, the "Boeing Freeway," then drive 15 minutes (past the Boeing Everett plant, home of the 777/787/747s and the biggest building in the world) to the town of Mukilteo. Map - https://goo.gl/maps/Sw4VoRKzWa42

Spend the night at the Silver Cloud Hotel in Mukilteo. This hotel sits on piling over the beach/water, two doors from the Mukilteo ferry terminal. (Silver Cloud is a terrific regional hotel chain with excellent service and decent prices.) Settle in, then have an early dinner next door at Ivar's, a branch of an iconic Seattle-area seafood restaurant chain. Alternatively, take away fish and chips or salmon, oysters - whatever - from their take-away counter in front of the restaurant, OR just walk another hundred yards to a very capable brewpub with good food. After the meal, if you're still vertical, walk a couple hundred yards past the ferry terminal to Mukilteo's adorable little lighthouse, then sit on the driftwood-covered beach adjacent watching the ferries come and go, look at the Olympic mountains (which will be in silhouette later as the sun sets) and decompress. Back to the hotel, lights out.



The next morning (and you'll still be on UK time, so an early start is easy) take the short ferry ride from Mukilteo over to beautiful Whidbey Island, maybe stop at the twee waterfront village of Langley, or maybe at Fort Casey State Park with its old coastal defense gun batteries and cool lighthouse. Then take the ferry to Port Townsend on the Olympic Peninsula. Port Townsend is a lovely old town full of great Victorian architecture, and it's an hour from Port Angeles. Visit Hurricane Ridge, then either spend the night in PA or continue west and spend the night in Forks, from which the Hoh rain forest and/or the La Push beaches are readily accessible.





This is just one example of how you can reduce the stress of the trip without really impeding the overall plan. There are others.

MissJ

Yeah, I generally am in my own car in Seattle, but times I've flown in since they opened they rented car center, I've had an hour between landing and being in a car many times. And that's with no customs and no rental car counter. I've had a few terrible waits for the shuttle and its just not a fast ride .

And don't forget actual area traffic if you do land on a weekday.

RaginPlainsman

Gardyloo knows what they're talking about. Traffic around here will kill a tight itinerary right off the bat. Your call, but a little more buffer throughout - and I'm someone who also likes to pack a lot into a trip - is a good idea.

QPRfan

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wxman22

I've pretty much been everyplace you have mentioned and more in the Pac NW and Montana.

OK, I do like driving, a lot! I think you need to consider two factors:
1. You have a two year old. For her, this is going to get old very quickly.
2. June and July are the vacation months. All of these drives will take much longer than if done in April. My point is not to do it in April (since you can't) but that estimated drive times that you or Google ,may calculate, will be 50% longer.

I really like djp98374's itineriry above. It is much more concise, you still see most of what you see, but is less driving.
I'd also add that my philosophy in to try never to backtrack or do the same road twice. e.g. Why return to Grant's Pass? Drive up the coast instead. There are also some neat paved, though narrow, roads running thru the coastal range in Oregon. A neat way to get to Salem from the coast is via Newport, Siletz, Valsetz, Falls City . Slow, but no traffic and beautiful.

Good luck