Why can US passport holders not do OLCI on Ryanair?
Jan 1, 2009, 7:40 pm
#31
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: HKG
Programs: A3 Gold, BA Blue
Posts: 68
Beware non-EU/EEA Ryanair OLCI at RIX!
Gather round, friends, and hear the sad, sad tale of a US passport holder who tried to use OLCI with Ryanair on the first leg of a RIX-STN/LHR-LAX flight last year, en route to a wedding back home. It did not, to say the least, go well, though I prevailed in the end and did get on board.
During the OLCI process, I was able to select "United States" as my passport country and enter my passport number as well; though these things did not print out on my boarding pass - the fields were blank on the pass itself - I had no reason to believe this would be a problem, because my name and other reservation information were on the boarding pass.
In RIX, there were at the time (I haven't been back for a few months, so I'm not sure if this is still the case) two non-Schengen flight zones, A and C. Zone A is the "old" terminal, a round, ground-level building, and once proceeding through immigration, it is impossible to go back into Latvia/Schengen - literally, there are no doorknobs on the door you use to enter the zone after your passport is stamped. And crucially for me, neither the security checkpoint officer nor the Latvian immigration officer had a problem with my boarding pass, waving me through after examining my boarding pass/stamping my passport.
HOWEVER, upon boarding, the gate agent examined my boarding pass without using a bar-code scanner, and just about shouted at me that I had "lied", told me I wasn't flying today, that I would have to "go back" and purchase another ticket, and that what I had done was "illegal"!
I was nudged to the side while other passengers boarded and tried to protest. I countered with the fact that the website shouldn't have let me choose a non-EU country if it was illegal, that a passenger would have no idea what a boarding pass is "supposed" to look like, that the security and immigration personnel would have told me my boarding pass was "illegal", and, most importantly, that it was physically impossible for me to go back as there were no doorknobs!
I also said that I'd miss officiating my best friend's wedding in California if I missed this flight (sort of true - I was only doing a reading
), and that my reservation was valid - it's not like I forged a boarding pass or was trying to get on a flight I hadn't paid for.
A colleague of the gate agent's came over, got the gate agent's side of the story from her in Latvian, again accused me of "lying", and told me that we would be "going back through immigration". At first, she tried to lead me to the exit immigration desk, though the non-openable doors (which, once she, too, realized had no doorknobs, she was able to get opened by knocking).
The exit immigration officer, who I had had a short, friendly chat with before, opened the door. He looked at me and seemingly remembered me (I'd only gone past his desk an hour or so before), and after he and the gate agent spoke to each other, rather heatedly, in Latvian, said to me, in English (which the gate agent didn't bother to do!) that 1) it was impossible for him to re-admit me to the country as his desk did not have the right entry stamps and 2) (I was amazed that he said this) that he thought should be allowed to fly because I had everything in order except the printout of my passport number on the airline's paper, that my trip was absolutely "legal" since US citizens are allowed six months without a visa into the UK anyway! Perhaps he was wrong, or just simplifying things for me, the Obviously Clueless Foreigner - does the UK require APIS information? - but at least I had one person there in my corner.
At this point, I grew hopeful - if they wouldn't let me back into the country without a stamp, perhaps I'd become enough of a problem that they'd just let me on the plane and forget anything had happened.
The gate agent's colleague then said, frustrated at the situation but slowly realizing that I was becoming a liability, and without consulting with anyone else in person or on the radio, that a bus (!) would come to take me to entry immigration. I protested, and said that we needed to resolve this right here, and that I wasn't going to leave the gate area unless the airline showed me, in print in the Conditions of Carriage, where, exactly, it said that the format of my boarding pass alone - regardless of the fact that I still had a legal, paid-for reservation - was absolute, total grounds for denying me boarding, and that, in fact, they were obliged to deny me boarding. (This took some doing, but I had sufficiently slowed down boarding by reducing their boarding activities to just one person checking passes, making announcements, and periodically sneering at me, so it's not like I was exactly causing a delay; there were still a good 35 minutes before departure time and we were all getting on buses anyway.)
A supervisor was called, and she produced the Conditions of Carriage, which did, in fact, say that online check-in was only available to EU/EEA passport holders, but which also said something where being a English teacher abroad finally saved me some money:
I thought fast: how could I manipulate this legalese to get them to let me aboard?
I went for the grammar angle. "OK. See these words here? You know, 'reserve the right to' doesn't mean you have to prevent me from flying. It just means 'you can if you want to', right?"
One of the gate agents smiled and nodded, understanding the legal limbo the phrase created - victory close at hand now! - but the supervisor didn't seem to get the fact that she had the power to use her forces for good and save my trip! I tried to restate things more simply, in a more pleading voice:
"You can let me on the plane. This (I pointed to the phrase, the gate agent nodding along with me now) says you can let me on the plane. Please let me make this trip - my friend's wedding won't happen without it!"
Finally, the supervisor relented. "This is a big problem, but if you promise that you won't EVER do this again, you can fly today." And she smiled!
Of course, I promised.
I walked out the door toward the first bus shaking a bit - I was amazed that all of this had happened in just five or ten minutes, but I didn't begin to calm down until we took off - would they come running after us on the tarmac? And it wasn't until I got to the non-EU line at Stansted, showed the incredibly nice immigration officer my onward ticket from Heathrow, got one of those big, friendly "LEAVE TO ENTER FOR SIX MONTHS EMPLOYMENT AND RECOURSE TO PUBLIC FUNDS PROHIBITED" stamps, and got on the bus that I actually relaxed.
Moral of the story: don't use OLCI if you aren't an EU passport holder, because you just never know who your gate agent is going to be!
During the OLCI process, I was able to select "United States" as my passport country and enter my passport number as well; though these things did not print out on my boarding pass - the fields were blank on the pass itself - I had no reason to believe this would be a problem, because my name and other reservation information were on the boarding pass.
In RIX, there were at the time (I haven't been back for a few months, so I'm not sure if this is still the case) two non-Schengen flight zones, A and C. Zone A is the "old" terminal, a round, ground-level building, and once proceeding through immigration, it is impossible to go back into Latvia/Schengen - literally, there are no doorknobs on the door you use to enter the zone after your passport is stamped. And crucially for me, neither the security checkpoint officer nor the Latvian immigration officer had a problem with my boarding pass, waving me through after examining my boarding pass/stamping my passport.
HOWEVER, upon boarding, the gate agent examined my boarding pass without using a bar-code scanner, and just about shouted at me that I had "lied", told me I wasn't flying today, that I would have to "go back" and purchase another ticket, and that what I had done was "illegal"!
I was nudged to the side while other passengers boarded and tried to protest. I countered with the fact that the website shouldn't have let me choose a non-EU country if it was illegal, that a passenger would have no idea what a boarding pass is "supposed" to look like, that the security and immigration personnel would have told me my boarding pass was "illegal", and, most importantly, that it was physically impossible for me to go back as there were no doorknobs!
I also said that I'd miss officiating my best friend's wedding in California if I missed this flight (sort of true - I was only doing a reading
), and that my reservation was valid - it's not like I forged a boarding pass or was trying to get on a flight I hadn't paid for.A colleague of the gate agent's came over, got the gate agent's side of the story from her in Latvian, again accused me of "lying", and told me that we would be "going back through immigration". At first, she tried to lead me to the exit immigration desk, though the non-openable doors (which, once she, too, realized had no doorknobs, she was able to get opened by knocking).
The exit immigration officer, who I had had a short, friendly chat with before, opened the door. He looked at me and seemingly remembered me (I'd only gone past his desk an hour or so before), and after he and the gate agent spoke to each other, rather heatedly, in Latvian, said to me, in English (which the gate agent didn't bother to do!) that 1) it was impossible for him to re-admit me to the country as his desk did not have the right entry stamps and 2) (I was amazed that he said this) that he thought should be allowed to fly because I had everything in order except the printout of my passport number on the airline's paper, that my trip was absolutely "legal" since US citizens are allowed six months without a visa into the UK anyway! Perhaps he was wrong, or just simplifying things for me, the Obviously Clueless Foreigner - does the UK require APIS information? - but at least I had one person there in my corner.
At this point, I grew hopeful - if they wouldn't let me back into the country without a stamp, perhaps I'd become enough of a problem that they'd just let me on the plane and forget anything had happened.
The gate agent's colleague then said, frustrated at the situation but slowly realizing that I was becoming a liability, and without consulting with anyone else in person or on the radio, that a bus (!) would come to take me to entry immigration. I protested, and said that we needed to resolve this right here, and that I wasn't going to leave the gate area unless the airline showed me, in print in the Conditions of Carriage, where, exactly, it said that the format of my boarding pass alone - regardless of the fact that I still had a legal, paid-for reservation - was absolute, total grounds for denying me boarding, and that, in fact, they were obliged to deny me boarding. (This took some doing, but I had sufficiently slowed down boarding by reducing their boarding activities to just one person checking passes, making announcements, and periodically sneering at me, so it's not like I was exactly causing a delay; there were still a good 35 minutes before departure time and we were all getting on buses anyway.)
A supervisor was called, and she produced the Conditions of Carriage, which did, in fact, say that online check-in was only available to EU/EEA passport holders, but which also said something where being a English teacher abroad finally saved me some money:
We reserve the right to cancel your reservation and to deny you boarding if you do not comply with the above.
I went for the grammar angle. "OK. See these words here? You know, 'reserve the right to' doesn't mean you have to prevent me from flying. It just means 'you can if you want to', right?"
One of the gate agents smiled and nodded, understanding the legal limbo the phrase created - victory close at hand now! - but the supervisor didn't seem to get the fact that she had the power to use her forces for good and save my trip! I tried to restate things more simply, in a more pleading voice:
"You can let me on the plane. This (I pointed to the phrase, the gate agent nodding along with me now) says you can let me on the plane. Please let me make this trip - my friend's wedding won't happen without it!"
Finally, the supervisor relented. "This is a big problem, but if you promise that you won't EVER do this again, you can fly today." And she smiled!
Of course, I promised.
I walked out the door toward the first bus shaking a bit - I was amazed that all of this had happened in just five or ten minutes, but I didn't begin to calm down until we took off - would they come running after us on the tarmac? And it wasn't until I got to the non-EU line at Stansted, showed the incredibly nice immigration officer my onward ticket from Heathrow, got one of those big, friendly "LEAVE TO ENTER FOR SIX MONTHS EMPLOYMENT AND RECOURSE TO PUBLIC FUNDS PROHIBITED" stamps, and got on the bus that I actually relaxed.
Moral of the story: don't use OLCI if you aren't an EU passport holder, because you just never know who your gate agent is going to be!
Jan 2, 2009, 11:02 pm
#32
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,072
So if you ask RyanAir to refund the 4GPB airport check-in fee they will? How does one go about doing this?
Jan 3, 2009, 1:42 am
#33
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 7,560
Thank you for sharing your story, mdonley. Glad things worked out for you in the end, I can imagine how stressful it must have been.
I hope that those who have been saying "just do it, you'll be fine" will now have a re-think. Yes, it seems to be possible to get away with it a lot of the time, but is it worth taking the risk when there is a possibility that one might get caught and turned away?
I hope that those who have been saying "just do it, you'll be fine" will now have a re-think. Yes, it seems to be possible to get away with it a lot of the time, but is it worth taking the risk when there is a possibility that one might get caught and turned away?
Jan 3, 2009, 10:10 am
#34
Moderator: Budget Travel forum & Credit Card Programs, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYJ/YVR and back on Van Isle ....... for now
Programs: UA lifetime MM / *A Gold
Posts: 14,429
Jan 3, 2009, 12:02 pm
#35
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2008
Programs: *A
Posts: 1,390
Originally Posted by Ryanair.com
Where a passenger is unable to avail of online check-in by reason only of not being the holder of either a valid passport or a National Identity Card, issued by the government of an EU/EEA country, any airport check-in fee paid will be refunded upon application. A refund of the airport check-in fee is only applicable to the person unable to avail of the service and not all passengers in the reservation.
Last edited by sds1493; Jan 3, 2009 at 12:04 pm Reason: Adding quotation marks
Jan 3, 2009, 7:21 pm
#36
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,072
http://ryanair.com/site/EN/faqs.php?...k&quest=whoco:
You have to send them a copy of your passport, which is a hassle, and why us, and many others are very upset about this.
You have to send them a copy of your passport, which is a hassle, and why us, and many others are very upset about this.
Jan 3, 2009, 7:34 pm
#37
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New to Texas
Programs: AA Plat Pro
Posts: 894
Seeing as the average RyanAir price is 1 pound plus taxes, why would anyone be surprised that they charge for absolutely everything? Want oxygen in the air, 3 pounds please!
That said, be prepared to file forms when you leave- refund of VAT, etc. NOT that big a deal. Consider it a nice "welcome home" gift when your checks come in.
That said, be prepared to file forms when you leave- refund of VAT, etc. NOT that big a deal. Consider it a nice "welcome home" gift when your checks come in.
Jan 3, 2009, 8:32 pm
#38
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,072
Seeing as the average RyanAir price is 1 pound plus taxes, why would anyone be surprised that they charge for absolutely everything? Want oxygen in the air, 3 pounds please!
That said, be prepared to file forms when you leave- refund of VAT, etc. NOT that big a deal. Consider it a nice "welcome home" gift when your checks come in.
That said, be prepared to file forms when you leave- refund of VAT, etc. NOT that big a deal. Consider it a nice "welcome home" gift when your checks come in.
Jan 4, 2009, 5:06 pm
#39
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1
Is it LEGAL for Ryanair to deny OLCI to USA citizens?
I am living in Spain on a resident visa good until 2011, with my husband and 2 kids who hold a UK passsports and Spanish resident visas. I just went thru the rigamarole, harrassment and almost missing my flight as described by others on this forum, since I was fed up with paying the check-in fees for no apparent reason and tried to do online check-in and boarding, using my Spanish resident identification. I am not even supposed to NEED a passport to travel within Europe!!
But my question is why Ryanair came up with this policy (no other airline has it), i.e., based on what regulation, and is it legal? It seems discriminatory and maybe it is in fact illegal, since they do in the end admit that they are supposed to refund the money. I am going to ask the EU commission in Brussels and I have filed a complaint with my local Spanish government, but any other ideas on how to find out if it's legal?
I am done with flying on Ryanair for the foreseeable future. It has been a hassle, demeaning in many ways and seems to provoke anger in me just by their doing business as usual! It's definitely not worth any money saved, since every time I have flown on them (probably have been on about 10 flights in 2 years) there is some surprise hassle, humiliation or extra payment and aggro involved. Thanks for any help on getting to the bottom of this policy. I know I will not get any info out of Ryanair itself, as I have tried and failed at that.
But my question is why Ryanair came up with this policy (no other airline has it), i.e., based on what regulation, and is it legal? It seems discriminatory and maybe it is in fact illegal, since they do in the end admit that they are supposed to refund the money. I am going to ask the EU commission in Brussels and I have filed a complaint with my local Spanish government, but any other ideas on how to find out if it's legal?
I am done with flying on Ryanair for the foreseeable future. It has been a hassle, demeaning in many ways and seems to provoke anger in me just by their doing business as usual! It's definitely not worth any money saved, since every time I have flown on them (probably have been on about 10 flights in 2 years) there is some surprise hassle, humiliation or extra payment and aggro involved. Thanks for any help on getting to the bottom of this policy. I know I will not get any info out of Ryanair itself, as I have tried and failed at that.
Jan 4, 2009, 6:25 pm
#40
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 7,560
melinmelin, welcome to FT.
I don't believe that discriminating against non-EU nationals per se is illegal (just like it's not illegal for the US government to put us through the humiliation of fingerprinting etc). However, as your husband is a citizen of a European Union member state you fall into a different category - you are supposed to have the same rights as your husband. If you look back through this thread you will see that this was mentioned earlier, and that it was suggested that it would require someone like you (i.e., the non-EU spouse of a citizen of an EU member state) to mount a legal challenge against Ryanair's silly rule.
I don't believe that discriminating against non-EU nationals per se is illegal (just like it's not illegal for the US government to put us through the humiliation of fingerprinting etc). However, as your husband is a citizen of a European Union member state you fall into a different category - you are supposed to have the same rights as your husband. If you look back through this thread you will see that this was mentioned earlier, and that it was suggested that it would require someone like you (i.e., the non-EU spouse of a citizen of an EU member state) to mount a legal challenge against Ryanair's silly rule.
Jan 5, 2009, 2:02 am
#41
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Malaga, Spain
Posts: 1,077
I am living in Spain on a resident visa good until 2011, with my husband and 2 kids who hold a UK passsports and Spanish resident visas. I just went thru the rigamarole, harrassment and almost missing my flight as described by others on this forum, since I was fed up with paying the check-in fees for no apparent reason and tried to do online check-in and boarding, using my Spanish resident identification. I am not even supposed to NEED a passport to travel within Europe!!
But my question is why Ryanair came up with this policy (no other airline has it), i.e., based on what regulation, and is it legal? It seems discriminatory and maybe it is in fact illegal, since they do in the end admit that they are supposed to refund the money. I am going to ask the EU commission in Brussels and I have filed a complaint with my local Spanish government, but any other ideas on how to find out if it's legal?
I am done with flying on Ryanair for the foreseeable future. It has been a hassle, demeaning in many ways and seems to provoke anger in me just by their doing business as usual! It's definitely not worth any money saved, since every time I have flown on them (probably have been on about 10 flights in 2 years) there is some surprise hassle, humiliation or extra payment and aggro involved. Thanks for any help on getting to the bottom of this policy. I know I will not get any info out of Ryanair itself, as I have tried and failed at that.
But my question is why Ryanair came up with this policy (no other airline has it), i.e., based on what regulation, and is it legal? It seems discriminatory and maybe it is in fact illegal, since they do in the end admit that they are supposed to refund the money. I am going to ask the EU commission in Brussels and I have filed a complaint with my local Spanish government, but any other ideas on how to find out if it's legal?
I am done with flying on Ryanair for the foreseeable future. It has been a hassle, demeaning in many ways and seems to provoke anger in me just by their doing business as usual! It's definitely not worth any money saved, since every time I have flown on them (probably have been on about 10 flights in 2 years) there is some surprise hassle, humiliation or extra payment and aggro involved. Thanks for any help on getting to the bottom of this policy. I know I will not get any info out of Ryanair itself, as I have tried and failed at that.
Jan 5, 2009, 7:19 am
#42
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 40
Many time this fee is no longer applied. Of my 12 flights last year, only 4 times was I required to pay the fee.
I suggest that anyone with a non-EU passport book for on-line check-in, initially avoiding the €5 fee. Than note your confirmation number and walk up to the check-in counter. Many times you'll get the boarding card without paying the fee. If you are required to pay the fee, just request it back after your flight. It takes one (!) fax and usually 7 days and the amount is refunded.
Considering that I flew only flights that cost a total of €0.01 (incl. fees and taxes), even paying the €5 initially; what greater bargains are out there??
(I do have VISA Electron and avoid the CC fees)
I suggest that anyone with a non-EU passport book for on-line check-in, initially avoiding the €5 fee. Than note your confirmation number and walk up to the check-in counter. Many times you'll get the boarding card without paying the fee. If you are required to pay the fee, just request it back after your flight. It takes one (!) fax and usually 7 days and the amount is refunded.
Considering that I flew only flights that cost a total of €0.01 (incl. fees and taxes), even paying the €5 initially; what greater bargains are out there??
(I do have VISA Electron and avoid the CC fees)
Jan 5, 2009, 11:05 am
#43
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2008
Programs: *A
Posts: 1,390
A few days ago, I flew FR from STN. They have new self check in counters, which I used. This proves that there is no extra documentation check. It also shows, that we're paying £4 to check in at a computer, not even with an agent.
Jan 6, 2009, 5:04 am
#45
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 40
You might want to try the following:
http://www.entropay.com
You will have to open the account for British Pounds (not $ or €) and it will work with Ryanair.
http://www.entropay.com
You will have to open the account for British Pounds (not $ or €) and it will work with Ryanair.