Discussion about Chinese (PRC) airlines
Nov 15, 2019, 10:19 am
#1
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,037
Discussion about Chinese (PRC) airlines
I'm guessing this thread has been done before, but if so, certainly not within the past ~5 years or so. As such, I'd like to get the ball rolling on the 2019 version.
Allow me to get the party started with my own current assessment. Note that my data set applies almost exclusively to domestic/regional economy flights
BIG FOUR
1. China Eastern (MU)
-as recently as 10 years ago, I couldn't have fathomed the idea of putting MU in the top half of my list, much less the pole position
-but, I have to admit that they have made GREAT STRIDES across the board
-their 77Ws and A330s are really nice airplanes in all classes
-their 320s are more comfortable than 737s
-free wifi on all flights that have wifi
-slightly better than average service/food
-in addition to being my top pick among the big four, they are also my go to airline ex-Shanghai
2. China Southern (CZ)
-many would (and do) argue that CZ is better than MU because they run a pretty tight ship
-furthermore, they are the biggest of the big four, and the gap is likely increase significantly if/when their PKX plan materializes (CAN/SZX, WUH, and URC aren't useful for most of us)
-I'm a fan of their (substantially) extra legroom seats in economy
-their planes are fairly solid across the board, but none of them are really mind blowing
-food and service are both okay
3. Air China (CA)
-CA retains more "SOE" culture than MU and CZ (not so good), but has been lifted by its tight partnership with CX (good)
-like MU, they place cool airplanes (e.g. 744s) on the PEK-SHA route
-their narrow body planes (mix of 737s and 320s) are okay enough
-food is a little disappointing...not really an issue for me
-I can't really fault them for service, but it's unlikely to blow anyone away
4. Hainan (HU)
-it may (or may not) be surprising that I place HU in last place among the big four
-while I realize that their 787s are pretty damn comfortable, their cabin crews try hard, and their unconventional ways are refreshing, my gut always dissuades me from booking their flights
-basically, I regard them as a "wild, wild, west" airline, which is cool from an innovation standpoint, but doesn't instill confidence in me
-I shall also note that I started flying HU in 1995 (for real!), when they were really loopy, so I suppose some of these past prejudices have endured
SHANGHAI BASED AIRLINES
(since I'm based in Shanghai, I feel compelled to opine on these in isolation)
1. China Eastern (MU)
-see above for my general comments, but when they fit my schedule, I pick them
2. Spring (9C)
-sure, their seats are painful, they fly at crazy time slots, and they are a true ULCC
-the thing is, their staff is awesome across the board (i.e. EXTREMELY nice people); just watch a few of their Youtube/Youku videos, and you'll get the picture
-pay the extra Y100 to sit in a non-horrible seat, and you will survive
-note: price is usually a constant in these parts (e.g. MU and CA match fares), but 9C doesn't really care about this; as such, my assessment most definitely takes ROI into account
3. Shanghai Airlines (FM)
-when I first started flying a lot within China (~2000), FM was a standout carrier (i.e. easily top pick on the PEK-SHA route)
*they had the best planes, FAs, and food
*they were a little more reliable than the big guys
-after MU bought them, they started to go downhill...in a big way
-I flew them back from NNG tonight on a 738, in which they had ripped out the first class section (for captive markets like NNG), they didn't serve any substantial food, and they parked the plane at a pretty far away remote stand (though, not at T1, which is a common docking point for the same flight)
4. Juneyao (HO)
-I've never been a fan
-while their 320s aren't especially uncomfortable, the operation itself doesn't engender a great deal of confidence
-in spite of how much I've grown to dislike FM, I still prefer them to HO at this point in time
In closing, apart from the above, I have thoughts on other Chinese airlines, some of which I like, but I want to close out this initial post here.
Allow me to get the party started with my own current assessment. Note that my data set applies almost exclusively to domestic/regional economy flights
BIG FOUR
1. China Eastern (MU)
-as recently as 10 years ago, I couldn't have fathomed the idea of putting MU in the top half of my list, much less the pole position
-but, I have to admit that they have made GREAT STRIDES across the board
-their 77Ws and A330s are really nice airplanes in all classes
-their 320s are more comfortable than 737s
-free wifi on all flights that have wifi
-slightly better than average service/food
-in addition to being my top pick among the big four, they are also my go to airline ex-Shanghai
2. China Southern (CZ)
-many would (and do) argue that CZ is better than MU because they run a pretty tight ship
-furthermore, they are the biggest of the big four, and the gap is likely increase significantly if/when their PKX plan materializes (CAN/SZX, WUH, and URC aren't useful for most of us)
-I'm a fan of their (substantially) extra legroom seats in economy
-their planes are fairly solid across the board, but none of them are really mind blowing
-food and service are both okay
3. Air China (CA)
-CA retains more "SOE" culture than MU and CZ (not so good), but has been lifted by its tight partnership with CX (good)
-like MU, they place cool airplanes (e.g. 744s) on the PEK-SHA route
-their narrow body planes (mix of 737s and 320s) are okay enough
-food is a little disappointing...not really an issue for me
-I can't really fault them for service, but it's unlikely to blow anyone away
4. Hainan (HU)
-it may (or may not) be surprising that I place HU in last place among the big four
-while I realize that their 787s are pretty damn comfortable, their cabin crews try hard, and their unconventional ways are refreshing, my gut always dissuades me from booking their flights
-basically, I regard them as a "wild, wild, west" airline, which is cool from an innovation standpoint, but doesn't instill confidence in me
-I shall also note that I started flying HU in 1995 (for real!), when they were really loopy, so I suppose some of these past prejudices have endured
SHANGHAI BASED AIRLINES
(since I'm based in Shanghai, I feel compelled to opine on these in isolation)
1. China Eastern (MU)
-see above for my general comments, but when they fit my schedule, I pick them
2. Spring (9C)
-sure, their seats are painful, they fly at crazy time slots, and they are a true ULCC
-the thing is, their staff is awesome across the board (i.e. EXTREMELY nice people); just watch a few of their Youtube/Youku videos, and you'll get the picture
-pay the extra Y100 to sit in a non-horrible seat, and you will survive
-note: price is usually a constant in these parts (e.g. MU and CA match fares), but 9C doesn't really care about this; as such, my assessment most definitely takes ROI into account
3. Shanghai Airlines (FM)
-when I first started flying a lot within China (~2000), FM was a standout carrier (i.e. easily top pick on the PEK-SHA route)
*they had the best planes, FAs, and food
*they were a little more reliable than the big guys
-after MU bought them, they started to go downhill...in a big way
-I flew them back from NNG tonight on a 738, in which they had ripped out the first class section (for captive markets like NNG), they didn't serve any substantial food, and they parked the plane at a pretty far away remote stand (though, not at T1, which is a common docking point for the same flight)
4. Juneyao (HO)
-I've never been a fan
-while their 320s aren't especially uncomfortable, the operation itself doesn't engender a great deal of confidence
-in spite of how much I've grown to dislike FM, I still prefer them to HO at this point in time
In closing, apart from the above, I have thoughts on other Chinese airlines, some of which I like, but I want to close out this initial post here.
Last edited by moondog; Nov 15, 2019 at 10:46 am
Nov 15, 2019, 10:42 am
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,227
Great thread idea! I take at least 2-3 flights a month on Chinese airlines and sometimes substantially more. My rankings of the big 3 parallel my rankings of their respective home cities.
MU/Shanghai- is definitely the best of the big 3 much as Shanghai is the best city in mainland China.
CZ/Guangzhou- is a happy and try-hard airline that offers some quirky but kind service and generally has the best food. This is similar to its hometown of Guangzhou, a nice city.
CA/Beijing - A much more rigid affair with more pedestrian comforts in coach and biz seating wise. I don’t enjoy the city of Beijing at all and avoid it as much as possible. Although I don’t mind CA, I will avoid it when other options are available.
I honestly can’t tell the difference between FM and MU so I don’t understand Moondog’s rating FM so low. The experience seems exactly the same to me regardless if the plane is MU or FM.
I like HO for its good pricing of biz class seats and I’m looking forward to flying the new 787s they have.
I hope to never fly Spring.
MU/Shanghai- is definitely the best of the big 3 much as Shanghai is the best city in mainland China.
CZ/Guangzhou- is a happy and try-hard airline that offers some quirky but kind service and generally has the best food. This is similar to its hometown of Guangzhou, a nice city.
CA/Beijing - A much more rigid affair with more pedestrian comforts in coach and biz seating wise. I don’t enjoy the city of Beijing at all and avoid it as much as possible. Although I don’t mind CA, I will avoid it when other options are available.
I honestly can’t tell the difference between FM and MU so I don’t understand Moondog’s rating FM so low. The experience seems exactly the same to me regardless if the plane is MU or FM.
I like HO for its good pricing of biz class seats and I’m looking forward to flying the new 787s they have.
I hope to never fly Spring.
Nov 15, 2019, 11:17 am
#3
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,037
This video seems to have been mostly scrubbed from the internet, but I managed to find it:
http://www.cabincrew.com/videos/flig...i-airport/1184
While I'm not suggesting that any of you guys fly them overnight between PVG and HKT, if their HKG fare is $47 and KA's is $247, in addition to being able put the $200 saved towards other uses, their enthusiasm can't help but energize you.
http://www.cabincrew.com/videos/flig...i-airport/1184
While I'm not suggesting that any of you guys fly them overnight between PVG and HKT, if their HKG fare is $47 and KA's is $247, in addition to being able put the $200 saved towards other uses, their enthusiasm can't help but energize you.
Last edited by moondog; Nov 15, 2019 at 11:26 am
Nov 18, 2019, 10:02 am
#4
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: C6
Programs: most
Posts: 65
Flew China Southern in 2012; tick ✔️ esp as we were upgraded to first both ways
Found China Eastern can vary , note near impossible to get seat maps of A359 and B787-9
just flew Hainan, service on one side of the plane was better than the other, had high hopes, but overall poor service IMO, even down the the special pictures of the “wine of the month” the one they had on board was years younger than advertised , same thing next flight, different wine....
we are still in EU now, HU cancelled the return flight ( which happens) the communication was terrible ( particularly as we don’t have Chinese) and it took some argy bargy to get a replacement fight that suited us.
so it’s back with MU
Note - not returning with HU means I miss out on double Platinum with VA, ouch!
Found China Eastern can vary , note near impossible to get seat maps of A359 and B787-9
just flew Hainan, service on one side of the plane was better than the other, had high hopes, but overall poor service IMO, even down the the special pictures of the “wine of the month” the one they had on board was years younger than advertised , same thing next flight, different wine....
we are still in EU now, HU cancelled the return flight ( which happens) the communication was terrible ( particularly as we don’t have Chinese) and it took some argy bargy to get a replacement fight that suited us.
so it’s back with MU
Note - not returning with HU means I miss out on double Platinum with VA, ouch!
Last edited by datexan; Nov 18, 2019 at 10:04 am Reason: Spelling mistake
Nov 20, 2019, 6:44 am
#5
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: FRA/PEK
Programs: CA G Hilton D IHG SA
Posts: 10
I flew Air China a lot in recent years.
Overall 2 out of 5.
Lounge is definitely a catastrophy. Lounge in PEK T3C and T3E are dated and crowded. Food is only edible and beverage choices are quite limited.
IFE is overall slightly below average. Not so up-to-date.
Food service onboard is another catastrophy. For long-haul intercontinental flight, I believe they have roughly the same standard food on biz as the eco in LH. Both are bad looking. And for the taste, well what could u expect if they present you some s##t-like food. For domestic flight, they roughly reduce meals to almost NOTHING. In summer I saw a post from Weibo, where a guy paid rougly 800 USD for a business class from PEK to SHA, all he got is a cup of juice and some biscuits for 90 mins flight. For eco passenger (or to be more accurate, payload) from PEK to CTU which takes around 2 to 2.5 Hrs, they only have a cup of juice and a heated pancake with no seasoning and dry like a towel.
Service is probably the only part I would give Air China a positive review. Most crew are terribly nice(if you are flying biz or first). They attend to u often to check what u need.
Overall skytrax 3 stars is a little bit overrated for Air China.
Overall 2 out of 5.
Lounge is definitely a catastrophy. Lounge in PEK T3C and T3E are dated and crowded. Food is only edible and beverage choices are quite limited.
IFE is overall slightly below average. Not so up-to-date.
Food service onboard is another catastrophy. For long-haul intercontinental flight, I believe they have roughly the same standard food on biz as the eco in LH. Both are bad looking. And for the taste, well what could u expect if they present you some s##t-like food. For domestic flight, they roughly reduce meals to almost NOTHING. In summer I saw a post from Weibo, where a guy paid rougly 800 USD for a business class from PEK to SHA, all he got is a cup of juice and some biscuits for 90 mins flight. For eco passenger (or to be more accurate, payload) from PEK to CTU which takes around 2 to 2.5 Hrs, they only have a cup of juice and a heated pancake with no seasoning and dry like a towel.
Service is probably the only part I would give Air China a positive review. Most crew are terribly nice(if you are flying biz or first). They attend to u often to check what u need.
Overall skytrax 3 stars is a little bit overrated for Air China.
Nov 24, 2019, 3:09 am
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,406
I agree Chinese airlines are improving - in fact they've improved considerably over the last 5 years. But for me, a lot of that comes down to the introduction of flat beds, which is now the standard on long haul.
For me, a good bed, edible food and a cold drink is all I need.
As for service, I don't think I can fault the crews in terms of effort. Indeed some crews have been outstanding, equal to some of the best carriers. It's a pity they are limited by the soft product they have to work with.
Would I be happy paying top dollar? No. But for the price the Chinese carriers these days are pretty good value for money.
I quite like Spring - but have only flown in Spring Plus. I find it a pretty good deal. Similar to Euro biz class in many respects.
Juneyao I quite like as well. They have some pretty cheap fares and the service in business class is good.
For me, a good bed, edible food and a cold drink is all I need.
As for service, I don't think I can fault the crews in terms of effort. Indeed some crews have been outstanding, equal to some of the best carriers. It's a pity they are limited by the soft product they have to work with.
Would I be happy paying top dollar? No. But for the price the Chinese carriers these days are pretty good value for money.
I quite like Spring - but have only flown in Spring Plus. I find it a pretty good deal. Similar to Euro biz class in many respects.
Juneyao I quite like as well. They have some pretty cheap fares and the service in business class is good.
Nov 24, 2019, 3:14 am
#7
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,037
Dec 1, 2019, 3:55 am
#8
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AVP & PEK
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM
Posts: 6,355
Great thread and original post!
I fly CA mainly within the PRC, as well as PEK-AKL-PEK once or twice a year in J with UA award miles. I find them overall on-par with UA, i.e. masters of mediocrity.
Nothing terribly bad, nothing outstandingly good.
Only difference UA vs. CA: the FA smile on CA.
Have taken to HU recently, and it looks like it will be my main airline for USA-China route in the future.
Used to be exclusive on UA EWR-PEK, but now switched to HU JFK-PEK. Was concerned about additional travel time to JFK and the complexity of that airport, but much to my liking, the HU flights leave at ~2am, so the drive to the airport is smooth and the airport is deserted at that time. ^
Planes are comfortable, staff is attentive, food is good. The extra stop in Chongchin or Chengdu is not bad at all, and I can combine it with some work or R&R. Win-win!
HU is becoming my new favourite airline!
OP: when was the last time you tried them?
I fly CA mainly within the PRC, as well as PEK-AKL-PEK once or twice a year in J with UA award miles. I find them overall on-par with UA, i.e. masters of mediocrity.
Nothing terribly bad, nothing outstandingly good.
Only difference UA vs. CA: the FA smile on CA.
Have taken to HU recently, and it looks like it will be my main airline for USA-China route in the future.
Used to be exclusive on UA EWR-PEK, but now switched to HU JFK-PEK. Was concerned about additional travel time to JFK and the complexity of that airport, but much to my liking, the HU flights leave at ~2am, so the drive to the airport is smooth and the airport is deserted at that time. ^
Planes are comfortable, staff is attentive, food is good. The extra stop in Chongchin or Chengdu is not bad at all, and I can combine it with some work or R&R. Win-win!
HU is becoming my new favourite airline!
OP: when was the last time you tried them?
Last edited by narvik; Dec 1, 2019 at 4:03 am