moondog

I certainly agree with you on this point, and if I was the FA, I would have felt delighted by telling the obnoxious couple to pound sand. That having been said, if the couple had been civil, moving them to (empty) J seats seems like a win-win-win (reference to The Office) scenario: 1. happy customers; 2. no refund paperwork; 3. $200 definitely covers the increased catering costs.

HMPS

That couple "sonded" like "partying kind". They would drink more than $ 200 !

TPJ

Honestly - I am glad they have not been upgraded.

I have a feeling if they had a friendly conversation with Purser, quite likely they would have been upgraded.

Q1engineer

coolfish1103

brunos

From my experience, major reputable airlines have a policy of not upgrading from Y+ to J on longhaul, unless needed for operational reasons. Regional flights are a different story.

moondog

CX is a reputable airline, in which CA owns 29.99%.

YuropFlyer

So does CX upgrade PE (a different class that costs way more than Y+ on CA, which was sold for 100$ more than Y..) to C on a regular base, for non-status flyers? Or just when Y is full (or close to full, and even sitting PE pax together might be a nightmare)? Or just randomly?

As much as I can see it, an upgrade from a proper PE product (CX, SQ, LH..) to C for a frequent flyer in case of an airline swap is QUITE some difference than basically an upgrade from a seat with a bit more seatpitch (100$ "Y+", which was "downgraded" to a bulkhead seat with plenty of space) to C.

Someone above mentioned that, would airline really offer upgrades from Y+ to C on a regular base, it could easily be gamed. I have to second this. You're basically not going to lose anything if you'd do that. Either money back (and most probably the best Y seat) or a massive upgrade. It would be rather crazy for an airline NOT stopping this from happening. I do understand that some FTers probably DID use - I won't say abuse - such methods to gain plenty of "free" C upgrades, so I can understand if some are defending such "practice".

s0ssos

How is CA owning 30% of CX relevant? AA has invested in CZ. Does that mean AA policies come into play? Should you expect planes to go out with no empty seats in front?

The power dynamic on the plane in China is different than in the US. The FA's aren't overbearing, and they put up with a whole lot more than in the US. But I'm also happy in this case they didn't just cave to these obnoxious self-entitled Americans.

moondog

Whether the fare difference is $100 or $2000, is immaterial. The fact of the matter is that they sold a product that they did not deliver.

moondog

30% is substantially more than the 2.5% AA and DL invested in their Chinese partner airlines. It's relevant because CA is actually selling a product called "Premium Economy" just like CX. On some planes (e.g. A350), it is substantially better than Y, and on others (e.g. 77W), it is not. The vast majority of passengers (frequent flyers, or not) don't have a clue about this stuff

uanj

Air China sells Premium Economy with what they call an elevated service and more personal space. In a solicitation we got from them last year they mentioned things like slippers, newspapers, additional beverage service, and more legroom available on "select route and select aircraft" in a separate cabin in front of regular Y. You may view that as only "extra legroom in economy" but they do not and they do not sell it as such. If there is an aircraft change resulting in no Premium Economy where some passengers had booked it they should make arrangements to accommodate these passengers BEFORE boarding. They did not. Of course the passengers were disappointed, any normal person would be.

I have some sympathy for them because they may know how very hard it is to get compensation from an airline operating in China after departure. I just gave up trying to get compensation from HX where they substituted a single aisle single class A321 for an A330 when I had booked and paid for business class. Like these passengers in this story I did not find out until I boarded, at check-in they just said there was a seat change but I was still in an aisle seat. I said fine. I alerted the FA as soon as I boarded and she said tell the ground staff when you land and they will take care of it. Two agents meeting the flight said they only help with connections go ask at the baggage claim desk. After waiting in line there they gave me a phone number to call during office hours which took five tries to get someone to answer who also did not know but told me to submit an email. Ten emails later still nothing. This is why I now book with Ctrip and let them deal with such nonsense if it happens.

Nothing excuses the passengers' boorish behavior you witnessed. However Air China caused this issue and should have addressed the compensation issue on the ground before boarding. The passengers have no real choice after they have boarded which will increase the disappointment and frustration they feel.

As to your other question do other airlines upgrade passengers on a regular basis, when a booked cabin class is not available nearly all airlines will upgrade passengers into a higher class before downgrading anyone. You know this. If these two passengers really bought premium economy (and not preferred seating economy or something like that) then it is entirely reasonable to think that Air China would consider upgrading them if space is available since this is what most airlines do. It all depends on what cabin they booked which none of us here know for sure.

moondog

Upon further reflection, I believe I would have lost my temper as well. Unlike our OP, the boorish couple paid for an upgrade.

ETA: it's possible that ONLY reason the couple selected CA is because of the (promised) better seats. They either should have gotten J seats, or received $500 each in compensation.

@YuropFlyler:

On the off chance that you got their contact info, please share with me via PM, and I will message my best CA contacts. My thinking is that all of us have the potential to be .......s, but when companies piss people off, even their frontline people should try to be civil.

travelinmanS

uanj

But didn't you get your extra orange juice box, slippers and departing bottle of water? Maybe even a hot towel. I will also add even on Air China the separate cabins all come with seat back IFE even when regular economy does not have it.

I am old enough to remember the rollout of long haul business class on European Airlines. On Lufthansa in the beginning it was just another economy seat but with a much improved meal and amenities service. We all hated it. Kind of like what they do today on domestic first or business in Europe, the seats are the same as economy, they block the middle one if they can, and you get nice wine with your snack. I hate those seats from the Middle East or North Africa back to FRA or MUC. You pay business class, reserve a wide body so you sleep when boarding at 2 am, and then they switch to an A320 or A321. But, such first world problems we all suffer from.....