Air China J experiences
Dec 22, 2016, 7:18 am
#46
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,244
I've just taken CA long-haul to Europe. Cabin was all-new and impeccably clean; service very good as well, and lightning-fast. From my experience I find it difficult to believe that their service could be "horrible" other than as a one-off irregularity, the same as with any other carrier. In fact, I found them to be way above industry average, especially compared to the legacy carriers serving the US market. And I've flown CA in Y only.
If there is a problem with the cleaning staff, cabin will be dirty. If so, you will still get a clean plane on the three other legs, can't imagine that this will be a issue on any flight with them.
Dec 22, 2016, 8:31 am
#47
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 602
My long-haul flight was on an A330-200. Judging by the IFE, the cabin must have been refitted quite recently and looked mint to me. I also had a shorter connection on an A330-300 that was anything but new but still generally clean.
Dec 22, 2016, 10:14 am
#48
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: IAH
Programs: Marriott Plat, Hyatt Globalist, DL Plat, UA Silver
Posts: 4,043
No we booked them into confirmed J class and were ticketed as such. Almost all of our clients have a standing "no Chinese airlines except for domestic connections" order with us, and for good reason. This client needed to save money off their usual JAL alternative, but regretted it the moment they stepped on board.
I was Whatsapping with them throughout the pre-departure mess and repeatedly asked them to get the FA's to help, but with everyone screaming about the same thing, the crew just walked away and ignored the customers. The ground staff were equally useless, which is troubling given they would be responsible for ensuring proper cleaning from the vendor.
I was Whatsapping with them throughout the pre-departure mess and repeatedly asked them to get the FA's to help, but with everyone screaming about the same thing, the crew just walked away and ignored the customers. The ground staff were equally useless, which is troubling given they would be responsible for ensuring proper cleaning from the vendor.
I've had bad experiences on CA but mostly great. Not as bad as people think. Really underrated and overrated airline in an way.
Dec 22, 2016, 10:54 am
#49
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
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I've just taken CA long-haul to Europe. Cabin was all-new and impeccably clean; service very good as well, and lightning-fast. From my experience I find it difficult to believe that their service could be "horrible" other than as a one-off irregularity, the same as with any other carrier. In fact, I found them to be way above industry average, especially compared to the legacy carriers serving the US market. And I've flown CA in Y only.
Also, although I fly a lot, I've never seen an "aircraft [that] was absolutely filthy and disgusting with dirt, debris and hair everywhere" even after a 14h non-stop flight. Neither have I ever witnessed "everyone complaining and screaming" but if this were really the case, I somehow doubt the flight would have taken off at all. All this makes me think your customer's account might be exaggerated just a bit.
Assuming you mean LCCs, surely you realize it's just a categorization based on their pricing model that need not be directly related to service quality, so talking about "LCC quality" without naming the LCCs you have in mind does not make much sense. There are LCCs out there with better hard and soft product than legacy J -- you just have to book it and pay extra for all of it.
In any case, what are those "other more serious options" you recommend to your customers then?
And what would that reason be?
A blanket exclusion of all carriers from a given country doesn't seem very rational to me, not even bringing into account that this is now the second-largest airline market with one of the newest fleets. It could at least be worth it to distinguish between CAAC-operated vs individual private carriers.
Also, although I fly a lot, I've never seen an "aircraft [that] was absolutely filthy and disgusting with dirt, debris and hair everywhere" even after a 14h non-stop flight. Neither have I ever witnessed "everyone complaining and screaming" but if this were really the case, I somehow doubt the flight would have taken off at all. All this makes me think your customer's account might be exaggerated just a bit.
Assuming you mean LCCs, surely you realize it's just a categorization based on their pricing model that need not be directly related to service quality, so talking about "LCC quality" without naming the LCCs you have in mind does not make much sense. There are LCCs out there with better hard and soft product than legacy J -- you just have to book it and pay extra for all of it.
In any case, what are those "other more serious options" you recommend to your customers then?
And what would that reason be?
A blanket exclusion of all carriers from a given country doesn't seem very rational to me, not even bringing into account that this is now the second-largest airline market with one of the newest fleets. It could at least be worth it to distinguish between CAAC-operated vs individual private carriers.
Of course the "more serious" options we put our customers on are not mainland Chinese airlines whose service and product not only falls behind most competitors, but this is another incident in a long list of problems our customers have reported on long flights with Chinese airlines, be it CA or MU for that matter. They are simply not up to international standards. Our customers will generally fly Japanese carriers to Asia, some will fly Air Canada, some United and some BA or LH depending on where they fly from. Whether it is rational to you or not, our clients are pretty clear on the shortcomings of these airlines, some have experienced them in the past, and to have a standing order to avoid those airlines is perfectly normal after a bad experience or negative perception and it is the clients' option to have this requirement, not ours.
However, with this incident being added to the list, I give my clients who are open to a Chinese airline a clear disclaimer they are buying a substandard product based only on the price differential and should prepare themselves for the possibility of significant issues on any of their flights or while connecting in China, and it is perfectly within my rights to do so.
Dec 22, 2016, 3:15 pm
#51
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Dec 22, 2016, 8:05 pm
#52
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CGK/LAX
Programs: KF,JMB, OZ, SPG,AA,UA,AS
Posts: 1,163
Screenshots would be great. I fly CA pretty regularly in long haul J and while it's not my favorite airline I have not had any issues and have had some really pleasent crew members. An unhygienic cabin would certainly have had me upset. It will be interesting to see what the response is from your sales rep.
Dec 22, 2016, 9:38 pm
#53
Suspended
Join Date: May 2009
Location: DFW
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There is a great report (from a couple years back) that OP might find helpful:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-...hotos-too.html
Judging from it, CA looks pretty good.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-...hotos-too.html
Judging from it, CA looks pretty good.
Dec 23, 2016, 7:36 pm
#54
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: IAH
Programs: Marriott Plat, Hyatt Globalist, DL Plat, UA Silver
Posts: 4,043
Okay so I fly CA much more than BR. Just got off an BR flight. Let's start with the basics.
CA Food > BR Food on the IAH route. No Lobster and the rest is pure crap.
BR never refilled my tea during meals or even offered during snack times.
CA? Would minimally refill my tea 3 times to the point where I ask them to stop.
CA doesn't have direct aisle access but is generally cheaper.
BR is much cleaner than CA. It depends if the flight crew cleans up the aircraft.
Overall I'd still take CA over BR anyday with the price gaps.
CA Food > BR Food on the IAH route. No Lobster and the rest is pure crap.
BR never refilled my tea during meals or even offered during snack times.
CA? Would minimally refill my tea 3 times to the point where I ask them to stop.
CA doesn't have direct aisle access but is generally cheaper.
BR is much cleaner than CA. It depends if the flight crew cleans up the aircraft.
Overall I'd still take CA over BR anyday with the price gaps.
Dec 23, 2016, 8:23 pm
#55
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CGK/LAX
Programs: KF,JMB, OZ, SPG,AA,UA,AS
Posts: 1,163
Okay so I fly CA much more than BR. Just got off an BR flight. Let's start with the basics.
CA Food > BR Food on the IAH route. No Lobster and the rest is pure crap.
BR never refilled my tea during meals or even offered during snack times.
CA? Would minimally refill my tea 3 times to the point where I ask them to stop.
CA doesn't have direct aisle access but is generally cheaper.
BR is much cleaner than CA. It depends if the flight crew cleans up the aircraft.
Overall I'd still take CA over BR anyday with the price gaps.
CA Food > BR Food on the IAH route. No Lobster and the rest is pure crap.
BR never refilled my tea during meals or even offered during snack times.
CA? Would minimally refill my tea 3 times to the point where I ask them to stop.
CA doesn't have direct aisle access but is generally cheaper.
BR is much cleaner than CA. It depends if the flight crew cleans up the aircraft.
Overall I'd still take CA over BR anyday with the price gaps.
I 100% agree with you about refilling beverages. BR crew seems to not proactively refill beverages. I was on a CA flight recently from PVG-FRA where the FA was constantly refilling my tea, like probably 6 times over the course of an hour, I ended up using the bathroom a lot on that flight.
Dec 23, 2016, 11:26 pm
#56
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,036
our customers have reported on long flights with Chinese airlines, be it CA or MU for that matter. They are simply not up to international standards. Our customers will generally fly Japanese carriers to Asia, some will fly Air Canada, some United and some BA or LH depending on where they fly from. Whether it is rational to you or not, our clients are pretty clear on the shortcomings of these airlines,
Dec 24, 2016, 4:32 am
#57
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: IAH
Programs: Marriott Plat, Hyatt Globalist, DL Plat, UA Silver
Posts: 4,043
I 100% agree with you about refilling beverages. BR crew seems to not proactively refill beverages. I was on a CA flight recently from PVG-FRA where the FA was constantly refilling my tea, like probably 6 times over the course of an hour, I ended up using the bathroom a lot on that flight.
Like Jeff says you can be on the nicest plane with the best food but the service can be horrible which makes the whole experience overall bad.
Jan 5, 2017, 6:43 pm
#59
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NJ
Programs: UA-plat, HH-Diamond, Marriott-gold
Posts: 212
I got a good UA saver ticket in J EWR-PEK-SYD and then KUL-PEK-EWR with two day stop over in PEK on the way out.
For those who have flown Air China recently do they offer blankets and pillows? Just wondering . I will prepare my own viewing choices on my laptop as I did read the IFE is a little light for a westerner like myself! Also I am * gold and I know they depart Terminal B in EWR so I assume we can use the LH lounge?
Thanks in advance
For those who have flown Air China recently do they offer blankets and pillows? Just wondering . I will prepare my own viewing choices on my laptop as I did read the IFE is a little light for a westerner like myself! Also I am * gold and I know they depart Terminal B in EWR so I assume we can use the LH lounge?
Thanks in advance