Akiestar

All right, since stuff on CZ seems to be buried pretty deep into the archives, I'll just start a new thread here.

I'm leaving on July 7 for Wikimania (the big Wikimedia conference) in Poland and it took me quite a while to get an itinerary because the ticket prices shot up from here. Just yesterday, the breakthrough in my 'I need a cheap ticket' dilemma came to my head: intercontinental flights on CZ, with the rest operated by LH and SK, all for a grand total of around $1700.

I'll be flying MNL-CAN and AMS-PEK-MNL (via XMN) with them, and there's barely anything on them that I can find. It will be my first time flying on CZ and through CAN, PEK and XMN. Hopefully I can get some advice!

toyotaboy95

CZ is a fairly decent airline and one of the best Mainland China airlines but far from the standards of CX/KA.

Akiestar

Never flown CX/KA, so I can't compare. I'm expecting PR, but more Chinese.

IC6A

A proper Chinese Visa required for the second sector!

Or APEC card with China specified on your passport.

Or you hold Singapore, Brunei or Japan passport.

Akiestar

PEK-XMN-MNL is one flight (CZ 377), with XMN as an intermediate stop before reaching MNL (for some reason I don't know why they do this). Do I need a transit visa? I'm using this bit from the website of the Chinese embassy in Washington, D.C. as my basis:

EDIT: Just got off the phone with the Chinese embassy. The consular officer told me that as long as I am not leaving the airport while in transit, I will not need a visa, even if my international flight has an intermediate domestic leg. So it looks like I'm in the clear. Whoo!

moondog

You can leave the airport if you want.

Akiestar

Really? Without getting caught? (Probably not worth it though since my layover in Beijing is only slightly above three hours)

Mabuk dan gila

I have no idea what planes CZ flies on those routes but beware the 777's in coach. I made that mistake one time. Never again. Otherwise they are "OK".

Akiestar

You're essentially forewarning me against my AMS-PEK leg (772). The MNL-CAN leg is an A319, while the PEK-XMN-MNL leg is an A321.

There's a missing segment above, actually: CAN-CDG is coded as CZ, but operated by AF.

Mabuk dan gila

The CZ 772 are 10 across in coach unlike most 777 which are only 9 across. They also have a fairly tight seat pitch. Guessing 30" to 31" based on my knee-O-meter. This is all made much much worse by the extremely generous recline available to the guy in front of you. I'm 6' tall, but I don't usually whine to much about seat pitch in coach, and am used to TPAC's in the back but I spent 15 hours of pure misery in that CZ 772. Possibly my worst TPAC ever out of more than 60 TPAC's in coach based purely on the cramped seating.

The 319's and 321's I have been on are decent enough for narrow bodies. The only thing weird is the last CZ A319 I was on was quite newish looking with a nice enough modern-ish looking cabin. Entertainment was those ordinary flip down overhead flat screens like you would find on many narrow bodies. The weird part was the audio. It was those 1970's style tubular plastic stethoscope head sets. I swear I haven't seen those things since sometime back in the 1990's if not back in the 1980's even but there they were, on a newish plane. The worked fine. Just some kind of weird retro sound system.

Akiestar

I presume there isn't much of a difference between the 772 and the 77E, then. 10-abreast seating I can live with (PR's 77Ws), but LCC-style seat pitch on a nine-hour flight might be a bit of a drag.

Still, I've gone through worse.

moondog

It's not really a question of "getting caught". You will be entering China in Beijing and exiting in Xiamen. While you are in China, you can go wherever you please.

It's also worth warning you that, in the past, PEK has employed strange procedures for pax on one-stop international flights. While you won't get "processed" until you reach Xiamen, you'll need to clear exit customs in BJ (a minor formality). And, unless those guys have cleaned up their act in the past two years since I've dared to take such a flight, you'll be forced to wait in an especially grim gate area on the international side of T2, after security, inside of border patrol... no lounges, minimal food, basically a bus station. (The XMN destination people are not subject to this treatment.)

jiejie

Akie, I think you will come to regret the return routing and wish you had returned the way you came, CDG-CAN-MNL. Partly for comfort reasons as stated above.

Also, I am not confident that all parties you meet will be of the same opinion as the Chinese Embassy on the visa-less thing for this routing. First, I didn't catch what passport you will be travelling on, therefore don't know if you get intl-to-intl visa-free transit privileges. Since you called Embassy in DC, I'm assuming it's US passport not Philippine. Second, even with a normally acceptable passport, doing this visa-free transit depends on how the Chinese authorities are now dealing with the PEK-XMN leg in real time, in PEK. Normally the visa-free transit itineraries have one single mainland transit point between the two non-China origin/destination points, and you've got two (PEK and XMN). If PEK-XMN is treated as a separate domestic leg rather than some sort of "technical stop" for an international through passenger, then be prepared to do some fancy stepping, or probably get stuck in an intl passenger holding area with few features or amenities. Try to get confirmation in writing that you won't need a Chinese visa. For benefit of check-in personnel at AMS as well as immigration in PEK.

In any case, leaving the PEK airport vicinity when you only have 3 hours is not adviseable. If you are not put in a non-escapable holding area, you might consider heading from T2 to T3 for a look around to kill time. T3 at least has more places to eat on the presecurity/non-sterile side. There's a shuttle bus between the terminals.

Akiestar

For starters, yes, I will be traveling on a U.S. passport. I called the Chinese embassy in D.C. because it was late in the evening and I have a program on my computer which allows me to call the U.S. and Canada for free.

The reason why I didn't choose CDG-CAN-MNL is two-fold: first, had I chosen that routing, I would be stuck in CAN the whole day. CDG-CAN arrives at 5:00 am, and CAN-MNL doesn't depart until like 4:00 pm (I did a 12-hour layover in ATH a few years ago, and I don't want to do long layovers again after that). That's one long layover. Secondly, the CDG-CAN leg is poorly-timed for connections from GDN, which is my point of origin in Europe. Sad to say, KL's AMS-PEK was full in Economy, so I was stuck with CZ lest I do AMS-HGH-CAN-MNL, in which case I will have an inevitable domestic leg, and will definitely need a visa. If it really is that bad inflight, at least I know to come prepared, thanks to FT.

As I mentioned earlier, PEK-XMN-MNL is a single flight (CZ 377). When I mock-booked, the booking engine treats the XMN stop as a technical stop, although passengers can embark and disembark at XMN (the PEK-XMN leg is bookable by itself, but PEK-MNL will not show the XMN stop in the booking engine). I will give both the CZ office and Chinese embassy here in Manila a call tomorrow and try to clarify whether or not I need a transit visa, and to confirm whether or not what the consular officer in D.C. told me was correct. I'll try to secure a written confirmation or something as well from both of them.

As for PEK T3, I hope there's a lot of shopping on the non-sterile side. My stepmom wants me to buy something for her on the way back.

moondog

I'd be shocked if he encountered ANY problems on this front. The officials in XMN are used to this sort of thing.