A member asked me a question in private as they didn't want their user name viewed online. They then asked if I would post the question on their behalf.

Question: Essentially the question was to do with a FlyerTalk clemency program. They knew a member who for whatever reason had a streak earlier in their "career" on FlyerTalk which ended when they were permanently suspended. They and the former member do admit that some of that members actions weren't probably the most appropriate for what it seems FlyerTalk is trying to do. And wanted to know if we have ever considered a clemency program to allow former members back in if they promise better behavior.

Answer: Actually, FlyerTalk does have a clemency program in place. The idea was championed by the volunteer moderators and and is currently part of the members TOS. That policy is here:
Reinstatement
Not less than six months after revocation of membership, the former member may request reinstatement. The member shall address that request to the administrator at [email protected] and set forth a concise statement identifying fairly the date and grounds of revocation and the basis for seeking reinstatement. If the request is denied, a later request for reinstatement may not be made until at least one additional year has passed, unless the decision denying reinstatement sets forth a shorter time period.

To date I have "pardoned" a few members and likewise, have "ignored" a few members. FlyerTalk is not a game of in-and-out whereby members can simply choose to disrupt the flow of information among its members or play cute games of "posse." Each action should carry a consequence and it does. In the area of clemency, I'd suggest you have this former member look up this reinstatement policy in the current TOS and if they are truly committed to what the goals of the membership of FlyerTalk are, follow the guidelines for the request.

Among some that have applied, it is everything i can do to not want to reach out and straggle them. It's the, "Randy I want back in. So-and-so deserved the flaming i did on them and if not for that i'd still be on FlyerTalk." For the "devil made me do it" crown, i have little or no sympathy. No one can really cause you to be a total ... in public - only you. Most of us know that and don't make it an issue. Bottom line, if you can't take responsibility for your actions coming back in, then I'm sure we'll be seeing you go back out as well.

Bottom line: A clemency program does exist on FlyerTalk for those members who can commit to the standards the community has established.

Randy,

Might I suggest that those that have life granted to them again, not be allowed into restricted forums until they pass the 90/180 day rule that is currently in place for 'new' members of Flyertalk. I would hope that those granted clemency, would contribute to the topics concerning us most, miles and points.

Dan

For every aphorism there is an equal and opposite aphorism;

"a stitch in time saves nine" vs. "haste makes waste"
Too many to list.

However; IMHO-- in this case-- the adage:
"A leopard never changes it's spots"
Will-- again MHO-- prove to be the case each and every time.

No member here is unreplaceable-- even the most knowledge and helpful ones (and personally I doubt that's who we're talking about.)

If someone repeatedly violates the TOS and is permanently suspended, they usually have been given many opportunities to start over with a clean slate and have gone right back to the behavior that got them in trouble in the first place.

I personally have been repeatedly and viciously attacked by certain members, so I don't post on FT anymore as a result. And yet, FT goes on strong as ever.

IMHO, we need more disciplining of serial, recidivist disruptors-- not less.

de leted

I was just going through Omni and was feeling a little discusted about things in general on FT and then came upon this thread. Originally, I joined because of my love for flying and wanted to be a part of a group that shared those feelings. Randy, I think you did a fine job when you set up this site including the rules you and moderators have put in place. I doubt it would have lasted this long otherwise.
I too have received a couple of nasty and somewhat threatening pms from members. Kind of shocked and surprised at first, but then realized that's just the way things are sometimes in the world.
Have to admit that I probably should have been suspended myself a couple of times for posts made and was grateful when I just received a stern reminder of how to behave.
I think FT is managed very well and just wanted to thank those responsible for creating and keeping it available. It's still the best site for travel info.
Interesting stuff about clemency. Was just wondering the other day how that part of the site was set up after noticing someone had disappeared. Coincidentally, one member that got suspended recently had it happen just days after he had pm'd me with something not too pleasant. Chalked it up to karma.
I guess my point is that I've got a lot of respect for the creator(s) of FT and hope it continues to be a source of travel knowledge for many years.
Tom

As one who has benefited from the Randy's clemency "program", I'd have to disagree with JonNYC that people cannot change.

I am not proud of the fact that I received a "Lifetime" ban. I am, however VERY proud of the fact that I have not been suspended since my reinstatement.

I do agree wholeheartedly with JonNYC that "we need more disciplining of serial, recidivist disruptors". My solution to that problem is this:

If someone is lucky enough to receive "clemency", they should be on a ZERO tolerance lifetime probation. One suspension and they are out with no more chances. In my opinion it is a HUGE slap in Randy's face for the recipient of "clemency" to continue to rack up suspensions.

Just my humble opinion.

I hope that there would be a category of offenses that would disqualify someone for ever being considered for clemency. For example, in my time on FT, I have seen members maliciously post private information -- full names, addresses, etc. -- of other FTers. IMHO, this is far more severe than just being a serial troll or serial attacker. I have no interest in seeing those people ever return, no matter how much they claim to have reformed themselves.

It doesn't seem like there are a lot of individuals permanently banned/suspended from FT. And some of those individuals who were permanently banned/suspended are back through the "clemency" noted in the OP or seem to get back onto FT by ignoring FT rules. Comparing the two, those who have gotten "clemency" -- whether asking for it themselves or not??? -- seem more likely to be better contributors to FT, post-banning, than a banned individual with a new reincarnation on FT.

I agree.

Randy, here�s a bold business plan for 2007: sell Indulgences.

Popes did, so why shouldn�t you?

Much of the cost of building St. Peter�s was paid for by Indulgences, so maybe you are thinking that the House of Miles could use a remodel, perhaps a Duomo or a frequent flyer baptism fount?

Normally I would charge big bucks for this kind of 16th Century business innovation. But, for you: special deal. All I want is a lifetime Indulgence, or Amnesty, as I�m likely to get cranky in my old age.

In the 1500�s Priests used to wander around Europe with a price list, so I will be emailing one to you in short order. That the sale of Indulgences was a major cause of the Schism in the Church that brought forth Protestantism should be of little worry, since if you can sell Indulgences you can also have an Inquisition.

An excellent idea... and one with solid historical backing as well !!!

I agree as well...one time and one time only.

Indeed. My own business plan revolves around giving away the Indulgence consulting for next to nothing, but making it up on the Inquisitional fee for service.

I had always thought that the lifetime banned people just started up new accounts, and tried to change their style a bit. I can see that there are people who get excited in the moment, and go too far, and these people deserve another chance. Then there are the people who will create as much havoc as possible for their own entertainment. Never is too soon for these folk.

Actually, I'd prefer Letters of Marque and Reprisal.

"I've got a little list . . . and they'd none of 'em be missed."