Don't assume just because someone misses a thread that no search was done. Perhaps FT let them down or they used a wrong search term. Also, be sure a search would work befoe saying do a search.

I usually either give a thread or at least suggested search terms. We are here to help not just to fuss.

I agree. I don't think I have ever posted "do a search" without suggesting key words to try or providing a link and/or at least a partial answer.

But just as some are more limited than others in their knowledge and ability to provide answers, there are those that are (at times) limited in their time/energy/interest in answering a question. In these cases, I am still struggling to understand why they are more obligated than the OP to put forth effort to provide an answer.

I agree that the FT search engine need an overhaul. And I agree that it's unfortunate to have to leave FT to do a worthwhile search.

However, if I can become semi-proficient at using FT's current search feature, then anybody can. (I am as technologically challenged as they come.) I don't agree that certain members should be exempt from learning to work with what we have. IMO the value of FT is so obvious that members should willingly learn to navigate the site. YMMV.

I agree but that doesn't happen often. If you want newbies to use the search function it should be user friendly and OBVIOUS.

They shouldn't. They should keep quiet instead of posting some sarcastic, vitriolic comment.

Maybe this goes back to poor parenting. "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all."

sarcasm and vitriol are completely different..

for whatever reason, i could not search on sept 9 and 10, but now i can search again. that was the longest period where i wasnt able to search at all.. very strange.

Actually, no, sarcasm and vitriol are not antonyms. I'd be happy to go over the difference with you.

sar‧casm  /ˈsɑrk�zəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sahr-kaz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
�noun
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms

Vitriol: Bitterly abusive feeling or expression.

Therefore a comment can be both sarcastic and vitriolic (notice both involve bitterness).

What have you learned through trial and error that has made you more or less proficient with FT's search function? One can make a few simple choices (limit to a particular forum; chose posts vs titles; see entire thread or just post), but these don't do much to help me. Is there more that can be done to make the search function less of a hit-or-miss proposition?

The trial-and-error has revolved mainly around the use of key search terms, something that is not at all intuitive for me. Once I became better at choosing (guessing) things like:

which words to use,
in what combination,
when to include/omit quotation marks,

my search results improved tremendously. I have also learned to be more creative with the terms I choose. Partly because FT declares so many words as too common to search, and partly because FTers frequently choose strange names for their thread titles.

If you are doing everything else you mentioned (limiting to one forum, etc) then hopefully trying a larger variety of key terms will make your searches more productive. Best of luck.

to me sarcasm implies benevolent intent, whereas vitriol malevolent intent. i guess the definition does not state that. too bad some people use it that way, making it something that mods can decide to not allow anyone to use.

P*ss poor analogy. It's more like your asking the entire table to pass the ketchup, when the ketchup is within your reach, and Mr. Y says "get it yourself." The presumption that the poster has already done a search is a HUGE presumption that has been shown to be wrong time and time again.

Why do we reply at all? Let's look at the options:
--We give the answer = Results in more questions being asked.
--We ignore the thread = OP feels the question is ignore, then leaves.
--We tell them to search = OP now knows a) there's a search function, and b) we're not here to do the work for them.

And quite frankly, you're one to talk. As I recall, you sat at the table saying, "You obviously don't know what ketchup is because you went to USC."

"Virtriolic"? Pot, kettle, black.

Love,
AA Forum Member #3.

Ah.. Kagehitokiri: here's a perfect example of a sarcastic AND vitriolic post. Actually, this is who I was referring to in the first place ;-).

the problem is not the USER of Ft, it is the FT database these days.
i think that the DB is getting bigger and bigger , when i joined FT , i did search for LH + SEN + evoucher and i got the threads which did answer my questions .

these days, there are so many threads, and the search function is not very good.

it is a problem of growth of FT maybe.

dp

What is FT for if it's not an exchange of knowledge. Each new question might elicit a slightly more different and more relevant response. But I appreciate that might grate on some.

That would be a pity. I believe we are all beholden to encourage new members and make them feel welcome, this is hardly the action of a friendly community.

Once again, the whole idea of search is great but how would a newbie know how to get the best response from it i.e. the magic bullet of search syntax. I can kinda get the search function to do what I want but it's taken 2 years of use! Hardly something that can be described as user friendly. Surely a more friendly and appropriate response would be to welcome the newbie, answer his question and gently direct them to the search function for use in the future.

Until the search function is overhauled then really, I believe we should suck it up as part of being an FTer.

I agree completely. Which is why I think that a "do a search" response is almost always better than no answer at all. Why ignore a post when one can help out by mentioning that a search will yield results. At least then the poster knows that the info is indeed available on FT.

Besides... despite claims to the contrary, I see very few curt responses nowadays that only state "do a search". Even in the allegedly unfriendly AA forum, what actually happens more often than not, is that the OP gets a friendly welcome and then something along the lines "this question is asked so frequently that there are already many threads available". Often a suggestion for search terms and/or links are provided.


Now I have a question: Why do so many here presume that "newbie" equates to incompetent, unskilled... even ignorant? Just because one is new to this forum, it doesn't automatically follow that he or she has no computer savvy (or travel knowledge for that matter). If someone found FT in the first place, they obviously have at least rudimentary computer skills. JMHO but I think it's disrespectful to assume that new members are incapable of functioning on their own.