I don't disagree with you. I was just trying to be fair

I know you were, and love you for it. I was just trying to be both fair and balanced.

I think that this is a terrible idea. FT historically has been unable to show that it can responsibly use tools like this - thread ratings and user reputation come to mind - and I have a feeling that self-moderation to this level would end up being used as a political tool by a group of people who happen not to like one person - regardless of how useful that one person may be useful to the FT community as a whole.

I also think that a sub-forum for experienced AA members in the vein of OMNI is a bad idea as well. It brings, to me, an implication that no newbies ever contribute anything that anyone wants to read, which I don't believe is the case.

Mike

I'm certainly not intending to imply that, and have, in fact, specifically stated that that is not the case in this thread. What it implies to me is that some people have a different amount of tolerance for silly threads. If there were a subforum, an experienced user who wishes to post their threads in the main forum is certainly free to do so. If they wish to read what others have posted there, they are free to do so. On the other hand, experienced users who have a lower tolerance for the type of newbie thread that causes the problem here would not have to do so.

Flyertalk is a diverse community. One of the requirements of such a community is that we have to respect each other. It seems to me that the high-tolerance Flyertalkers are saying to the low-tolerance group "why can't you be just like me", which doesn't seem to me to be very respectful of that diversity. Instead, we should try to adapt Flyertalk to meet the needs of our diverse membership as well as possible.

I don't know what the technical limitations are of the Flyertalk software. My intent is not to isolate the newbies from knowledge. There are a couple of ways to solve this problem that I have come up after giving it concentrated thought for maybe 30 seconds. One would be to move all threads from the experienced user sub-forum to the main forum after 30 days. Another would be to allow everyone to read the sub-forum, but restrict posting. Again, I don't know if this is possible.

I am reading a few people on here who are saying, to every suggestion brought up, "no, I don't like it". Those of us who are making suggestions do not have a monopoly on good ideas, and I am sure there are many ways to improve this idea, and I am sure that there are many other good ideas. If you have an idea (other than "leopard, change your spots"), I am eagerly awaiting it.

A couple of the AA mods have asked this question of the senior members but were told that it would not solve their "newbie" problem and hence would not be of much use.

I am glad to see this at Randy's attention - I've already suggested privately to a few of those who have posted here that I think Randy can more adequately address their concerns since the AA mods have been unable to thus far.

I very much look forward to his response.

It's a shame that Sam Kinison is dead. I'd love to hear his take on internet communities and the incredible and shameless combnation of self-entitlement and humorless self-dramatization that goes on by all parties - participants, trolls, moderators, operators... everybody.

If you want to go start your own AA-related playground, go start it. If you can't figure out how to find a hosting company, a VBulletin license, and a Google AdWords account, then be quiet. Or round up some investors and make Randy an offer he can't refuse.

I look forward to Randy's response as well, as well as drinking with him at the ballpark in Denver a week from tonight. Have a nice day.

What an interesting thread, and all because FT has become a friendlier place?

That's a first, I always hear that FT is this and that, OMNI is a wasteland, blah, blah, and the OMNIzation of threads.

But this time, the folks at the AA forum are complaining that we are too friendly, and that they want the ability to be mean to people.

And of course, moderators are to blame

How is this, we create a happy thread in each forum, which can be called, the I am a newbie and I need help thread

That way, if you are new to the site, want information about a certain subject in a forum, and don't know how to use the search function, they can post it in there.

People who don't mind answering for the 1,000,000,000,000,000th time about the Platinum challenge can help

Just a thought.

Besides, FT will not turn into MySpace, as it is, we have limited smilies, much less put graphics or videos

Now, one thing I will agree (and yes, I know you can buy FT premium or use and ad blocking software) is that FT looks kinda cheesy with all those ads, it's worse than a NASCAR car

Not bad ideas, either of them.

Agree 100%. It also speaks to the tenor of the AA forum that this suggestion was even broached for the AA forum.

You're not alone in that thought. Everyone can contribute to FT. We've had fares posted in Mileage Run by posters with 1 post. We all were newbies here at one point. It took me six months to get up the nerve to post (and FT was much smaller 6 years back).

I've noticed a change in the demeanor in the AA forum since the new moderators were introduced. Those that have historically challenged new posters for "wasting bandwith" or not doing a "search" haven't been as visible, so to that extent the AA forum is becoming a friendlier place (and it's long overdue). I hope it continues going in that direction.

Tom at the Seattle Do

Some of you want a boys club for special people excluding the newbies? Then the idiots? Next the people you disagree with? How are you going to keep ME out? I have the posts, the time on the board, and I still ask silly questions and make incredibly dumb posts.

Maybe you need an online IQ test for "new" members to the secret club. Oh yeah, and a Breathalyzer on every keyboard wouldn't hurt. Maybe we need to get Sheryl from BFT over here to make things work.

I've leaned a *lot* from FT. It's not too much to say it's been a life-changing experience: I now have the knowledge and ability to leave my timid (loser) friends and family behind and travel everywhere I've always wanted to go in a style I really like. I just wish I'd had this information 40 years ago and I had enough time left to make 2MM. (And yes, I resent that post suggesting only young people understand BB etiquette and how to do a search, damn you) I do sincerely thank you all for the information, and Randy for the board.

I expected to do my part helping people with questions I once had, and wouldn't mind answering some the the newbie posts. But I have no interest in setting myself up for a putdown by the "experts" who seem to have some magic ability to use the seach feature when it fails the rest of us.

Why not just ignore the stupid posts? Then the poster will examine his behavior, read, rephrase, or go away. And you won't be seen as rude, heartless, exclusive, and divisive.

Adding mods, questioning procedures, examining the objective, all good stuff, and this conversation is well overdue. Thanks mods and AA regulars for the discussion.

For now I surf the kinder, gentler waters of OMNI.... which doesn't scare me at all. In fact I'm going over there right know to get info/opinions on kitchen countertops from some very bright and knowledgable people.

~Pat

What lili said.

Hi, Tom.

I've also noticed other changes in the AA forum. There are a lot fewer definitive answers to questions, and a lot more speculation. Maybe it's this, maybe it's that. A lot less solid knowledge. I hope this doesn't continue, but I fear it shall.

Some of the people on this thread (on both sides of the discussion) are regulars on the AA forum, but there are some people posting here that I don't remember ever seeing there. Now I'm not there full time, but I do get there pretty often. If you would like to help with the situation, come on over to the AA forum and participate. We can use all the help we can get.

I don't believe there is. Most people do not respond rudely unless provoked.

I would like to receive a reply to the question in Colin's post, but I dare not quote it, based upon the behaviour of mods today.

Well, now that I have declared my intent at thought-crime, I might as well go out on a limb and ask why this thread which was originally in AA, was moved to "Only Randy Peterson" without leaving a stub on AA? Clearly a significant number of AA board participants have shown interest in it, but in the opinion of Canarsie, it was unnecessary to leave any sign of it there. Nice.

I agree. The problem that needs solving is too many new members posting too many obvious questions. Cutting the head off is rarely a good cure for headache.

No. It speaks to the level of exasperation there.

When bulletin boards degenerate/die, eventually some one does start a new one. I've seen it happen a number of times, in the context of shopping, finance, trading, technology articles, shopping, etc. Airlines are really no different.

You missed the point. Let me restate it - is pleasantness alone worth it if there is (or will soon be) no information left?

Yes, good point. I wish the person who is the subject of this post was as thoughtful and considerate as you are. What is the point? As I posted elsewhere -- you get out of FT what you put in. Show people you have put in some effort and are sincere in what you are asking, and you normally get good responses, in all of FT. Now AA may have special demons, I do not know, but somehow I doubt it.

I haven't been on FT for about two months now, and the lowered Signal/Noise ratio was the first thing I noticed. The second was that some of the most insightful contributors were missing. I just hope the increased friendliness is not at the expense of decreased usefulness. That's why I wrote OP.

Actually, I think my very first F/T post was one of the most thoughtful and informative I have made.

After that, I went on a three-year downhill slide which has not yet bottomed out.