Randy, if you don't mind, as a starting point/guiding light to the discussion we are supposed to have on TalkBoard, could you comment on how the enforcement of this policy is handled with regards to www.farealert.net which one member has had in his "From" line for quite a while. It seems that there are some commercial booking links on that site also, but it seems that so far this has not been a problem to you? Thanks.

If you want this as a "starting point" for in the talkboard, why isn't your question posted there?

Why do you continue to spew your hatred and lies about farealert in public?

I will ask Randy to tell you what he told the last person that asked the same question you are asking, I hope that will finally put an end to your quest to discredit my hard work.

"Hatred and lies"? ScottC, you should try to be a bit more careful with your choice of words, please. Anyone who can read my post in this thread can judge for themselves if there was any "hatred and lies" in that post.

It just seemed like a similar situation to me - in both cases, there appeared to be a possibility that someone "could earn some operating money from affiliate programs". The OP in this thread apparently asked some people on a thread to click on some links if they visit his site, whereas you have been promoting your site, which contains a commercial booking engine mask, via your from/signature line for at least two months or so.

Apparently, the OP's thread got deleted, whereas the fact that you had that from/signature line for about two months seems to indicate that this was not regarded as problematic. It's of course all up to Randy, but if we are going to be asked to try to work on a policy with regards to this kind of things, isn't it natural to ask and try to understand why one thing apparently was fine, and the other was not, just to get an understanding of where Randy would see a starting point for understanding "that fine line between operating something for profit vs. the commercial policy that FlyerTalk has"?

With regards to your question why my question is posted here, it is because the issue has not been brought up "there" yet. Randy, of course, can choose not to answer my question at all, to get mad at me for asking it at all/here, or he can choose to answer it in the TalkBoard forum - all fine with me.

If there is a difference between your situation and that of the OP, maybe I should have realized it? However, so far, I have not been able to, thus my question to Randy - if he wants to punish me for asking the question as you seem to be alluding to, he can certainly do it, it is his site.

If you had no concerns about promoting a site with a commercial booking engine in your "from" line for two months in all forums, why do you get so aggressive when someone asks "in public" about the difference to the situation of the OP, though?

Why is it "hatred and lies" when someone points out the obvious - that you openly have made, and continue to attempt to make money from www.farealert.net? I do not understand where the "lies" are you are railing about? It is surely a FACT. And where is the "hatred"?

A novel business idea - but it is hopefully also a money making business there seems little doubt about it. It has been promoted heavily in the user details of FT members. And still is today by one of the co-owners. Would someone running a travel agency or dating service, or golf store be able to do that, run the website name in every post for many months, and not breach the TOS re commercial sites?

A website that sourced its own claim of 24,000 email addresses on file almost entirely from being promoted to Flyertalkers and then via the media - also via Flyertalk? Nice work.

Isn't there still a large "begging bowl" link for donations on the front page of that site urging folks to donate money to your personal PayPal account? There was 2 minutes ago anyway - the text is below. There are subtle ways to seek money and payments - and overt ways. I'll let others make a judgment on which one you are using. ANDREWCX approach is subtle is all I will say on that.

It may be "hard work" - but it also appears to be "paid work". I'd be very interested to hear Randy agree it was an attempt at anything else to be honest, if you'd kindly ask him to explain it to me also.

The easiest method to donate is via PayPal. Just click the PayPal link below.

If you'd like to donate something non-monetary (we love DVDs, electronics, and beer) or if you don't feel comfortable using PayPal (or don't have a PayPal account) and would like to donate via check or cash, we'll gladly accommodate you. Please email [email protected] and we'll work out the details.

Are you prepared to divulge here how much has entered your PayPal account in the past 6 months? And outline the "goods in kind" received as well - beers, DVD's, cash, checks, etc you also actively seek?

I imagine a current list of 24,000 email addresses from keen travellers is a very difficult list to assemble.

Setting up a useful website or service to benefit FT'er is a great idea. Randy highlights KVS as an example. Many FT'ers can't access that info anywhere else.

But ScottC, your website was not only promoted to FT'ers as a great benefit to them all, it was promoted to a STICKY in the Mileage Run Forum - where folks regularly reading that do not really need FareAlert anyway - right?

If none of that bothers Randy, so be it - indeed he may not even be aware of it - but I mention it as it is a fact, and that thread eventually vanished without trace after a lot of FT'ers voiced the same concerns.

Farealert.net does NOT offer a benefit to all interested Flyertalkers as was heavily promoted to Flyertalkers - allowing the commercial side of the operation to slide by perhaps as borderline? I signed up with 3 email addresses as you personally know, and I made that clear - you urged me to do so as "mysteriously" my previous email sign-ups had been deleted "accidentally". And all three were by magic signed up again late April.

THEN without notice you and/or your publicly un-named partners on the website deleted all 3 email addresses from your data base with no comment, or courtesy of any advice to me. I have received no FareAlerts emails since, for several months. How many other FT'ers have been deleted without advice from your "List", may I ask?

Please add me back onto the data base if you are genuine about your claim this is a wonderful free service you offer ALL FlyerTalkers.

Right now you have a SELECTIVE base of FT'ers of your choosing on Farealert.net - it most certainly is not the claimed benefit you offered to all Flyertalkers during its inception, as these actions prove.

You surely can't have it both ways? "A free benefit for all interested FT'ers" - allowing it to slide under the wire and be promoted heavily on FT when list was being formed - with smiles all round, and then reneging on that when the desired size objective is reached.

I for one look forward to receiving the next alert. Heck, I'll make it easier, and re-enter my addresses, just in case they "accidentally" got lost all over again.

Thank you in advance. ^

One would think, that given recent history (and actions), that some posters would want to avoid this forum.

I'm curious Glen, do you make any money from www.flyertalk.net? I see that the main part of the site has your travelogues, but there are a tonne of prominent links to your stamp business all over the page. flyertalk.com was registered in 1998, flyertalk.net in 2002. Aren't you getting a "free ride" from Flyertalk too?

I did not post this in this forum. This thread was split out of another thread, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=461769, I assume by Randy (?). I would not have started a new thread for this, so I feel it is a bit confusing to make it look like I did.

There is little doubt in my mind that these posts are little to do with the topic they were started on - a thread that a moderator had temporarily suspended pending an opinion on the extent of the commercial links within that thread. This is a topic that is becoming something FT will have to establish guidelines for because there is an interest in the vast traffic on FlyerTalk to be part of personal affiliate ventures to earn income.

I split these posts off from the original thread:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=461769


This type of posting is consistent with a practice i simply find unsuitable and not welcome on FlyerTalk. You know the grade school games that some kids play of "I don't like you..." This reminds me of that. It's long know on FT that there is some sort of crevice between Oz and ScottC, between ScottC and Attorney28. What started it long ago, I have no idea. Despite my efforts to advise each of them for the benefit of others on FT and their own good to put aside any differences and use FlyerTalk for what it's intended purpose is - it just goes in one ear and out the other. Lord knows I've tried.

Now, for the record. All three from time to time are pretty critical of me, but given their stance on a particular topic or issue on FT, I have stood up for each of them and in fact, like each of them individually. Oz's style doesn't bother me. I've met him once and as an Aussie, clearly appreciate his boastfulness. Again, it does not both me and i take who he is in consideration when he posts. ScottC is a very bright and dedicated asset to FT. He serves on our TalkBoard, as a volunteer moderator and has been invaluable as a tech resource to me and the staff of FT. Attorney28 is a person with experience in the world of online communities and has a tremendous capacity of knowledge and information that is needed and good for the future of FlyerTalk. As noted, all three of them have had run-ins with me and all three of them have served time away from FlyerTalk at my invitation. But I've got to tell you, this sniping and petty stuff has got to cease.

Background on this matter, of which i believe all three know, but refuse to let the facts and my own statements settle the matter.

A long time ago when it became apparent with feedback from the very members on FT that the knowledge of various air fare deals posted by members on FlyerTalk could be better served if there was a way to send the deals out to members since they were time-sensitive rather than requiring visiting to FT and trying to find them. I'm a busy guy and while i did notice ongoing posts by members for something, really was not in a position to devote technical resources to it at the time. I think we were working on the cut-over from the older technology for FT or any number of other things. Anyway, one day i got an email from ScottC (before he was a moderator and before he was appointed/elected to TalkBoard saying that he'd like to give back to FT and if we wanted, he'd help put some sort of email thing together for some of the airfare deals that members were talking about. At the time, i think i probably didn't even reply and soon forgot about his offer. After some time as these things became more popular, he contacted me again, again offering to help do something for us. Again, i was far too busy to hook him up with my team and knew that my team did not have the time, though they had the talent, to put this together. So i got into a conversation with ScottC and after reviewing some of the posts on FT about this, asked him if he would do it on his own time and platform. "anything to help..." I think was his reply. So i allowed him to set up the farealert.net system for the benefit of the members of FT. Knowing that these things can be expensive (see comments by Andrew in the other thread link) I told him that if he wanted to add some affiliates or other things to raise financial support for the effort would that be OK since i really was concerned about spending more money on FT things than i already am. He was pretty thankful for that since i got the feeling he really would have done it for nothing. But i felt good that the system he would put together would benefit a lot of members on FT, based again on some requests for such from FT members. Would it benefit everyone? No, just as every forum idea doesn't, just as every Do doesn't. But it does provide value and in return has not cost FT anything to provide.

I made the decision to give affiliate and other operating cost funding to ScottC so that the project could move forward. In my mind, there is absolutely no conflict or discussion over farealert.net, other than the issue i noted above. Now, some of the other things that pop up on FT with commercial links, those aren't so clear. They don't evolve from requests from the general member group, etc.

I will soon ask the TalkBoard for clarity on the issue of commercial links, etc. but if you have any questions about a particular member, i think you might want to address that personally to me. I will out any attempt to play these personal games. I don't like it, and it is not at all representable of the FlyerTalk that I thought I was creating seven years ago.

Since i've asked this privately and the above seems to indicate that my request was not taken seriously enough, would Attorney28, ozstamps and ScottC find it within themselves to bury some sort of hatchet from the past and move forward with the rest of our members in creating a most useful community of miles, points and travel dedicated topics?