Reputation "comments" are gonna' be a big problem...
Apr 3, 2004 | 1:25 am
#16
Join Date: Dec 1999
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The problem will occur when the same people who like to point out that they have more posts, or they have more replies to their threads, are now going to start crowing about how good their reputation is.
And, as has already been shown, there are groups of cowards who are engaging in attacks on the reputation levels of FT'ers with whom they disagree.
And, as has already been shown, there are groups of cowards who are engaging in attacks on the reputation levels of FT'ers with whom they disagree.
Apr 3, 2004 | 6:44 am
#17
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Third planet from the Sun
Posts: 7,024
If fellow members are going to be able to "rate" you, at least show the name of the user(s) who are doing so. Being able to rate someone behind a curtain is ripe for problems.
Apr 3, 2004 | 6:58 am
#18
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 44,555
Flyertalk, the administrator, indicated that the model for the reputation comments is ebay. However, on ebay, you can't make anonymous feedback remarks - you have to leave your name, unlike here.
While some people have manually left their names in my FT feedback, it is, of course, entirely up to the feedback giver whether to type in their names. Not sure if anonymity with regard to FT feedback is the way to go. Maybe time will tell?
Say someone feels like flaming you for something you write. Couldn't they simply search for as many posts as possible, dinging you as much as they want until they are satisfied that you have paid a fair price for your "acting up"?
While some people have manually left their names in my FT feedback, it is, of course, entirely up to the feedback giver whether to type in their names. Not sure if anonymity with regard to FT feedback is the way to go. Maybe time will tell?
Say someone feels like flaming you for something you write. Couldn't they simply search for as many posts as possible, dinging you as much as they want until they are satisfied that you have paid a fair price for your "acting up"?
Apr 3, 2004 | 9:16 am
#19
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Originally Posted by anonplz
Flyertalk, the administrator, indicated that the model for the reputation comments is ebay. However, on ebay, you can't make anonymous feedback remarks - you have to leave your name, unlike here.
While some people have manually left their names in my FT feedback, it is, of course, entirely up to the feedback giver whether to type in their names. Not sure if anonymity with regard to FT feedback is the way to go. Maybe time will tell?
Say someone feels like flaming you for something you write. Couldn't they simply search for as many posts as possible, dinging you as much as they want until they are satisfied that you have paid a fair price for your "acting up"?
While some people have manually left their names in my FT feedback, it is, of course, entirely up to the feedback giver whether to type in their names. Not sure if anonymity with regard to FT feedback is the way to go. Maybe time will tell?
Say someone feels like flaming you for something you write. Couldn't they simply search for as many posts as possible, dinging you as much as they want until they are satisfied that you have paid a fair price for your "acting up"?
IMHO, even the ebay system is flawed. 99.9% of ebay feedback given is positive, in hope of receiving positive feedback in return. Ego stroking at it's best. For example, I have been an ebay member since item numbers had five digits (they have ten now). I have nearly 2000 positive comments, and zero negative. Clearly if the feedback system worked, I would have made SOMEONE angry enough to leave at least one negative.On FT, feedback will be nothing more than another weapon for flame baiting. Do we really need that? PLEASE don't unleash this abomination on us.
Apr 3, 2004 | 1:30 pm
#20
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 7,368
Originally Posted by HigherFlyer
In fact, on ebay you cannot leave feedback unless you have completed an official ebay transaction. The current FT system allows ANYONE to leave feed back for ANYONE! IMHO, even the ebay system is flawed. 99.9% of ebay feedback given is positive, in hope of receiving positive feedback in return. Ego stroking at it's best. For example, I have been an ebay member since item numbers had five digits (they have ten now). I have nearly 2000 positive comments, and zero negative. Clearly if the feedback system worked, I would have made SOMEONE angry enough to leave at least one negative.
On FT, feedback will be nothing more than another weapon for flame baiting. Do we really need that? PLEASE don't unleash this abomination on us.
IMHO, even the ebay system is flawed. 99.9% of ebay feedback given is positive, in hope of receiving positive feedback in return. Ego stroking at it's best. For example, I have been an ebay member since item numbers had five digits (they have ten now). I have nearly 2000 positive comments, and zero negative. Clearly if the feedback system worked, I would have made SOMEONE angry enough to leave at least one negative.On FT, feedback will be nothing more than another weapon for flame baiting. Do we really need that? PLEASE don't unleash this abomination on us.
Now, back to the FT side. If anonymous trolls were enough of a problem in OMNI, then they've got even more potential for harm here. And to me, this comment section makes it possible that *everyone* who doesn't disclose their name is an anonymous troll.
Mike
Apr 3, 2004 | 1:54 pm
#21
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Posts: 1,233
How do you see positive or negative comments about your reputation. I know that I am slow but can't see anything. Or maybe know one is commenting on mine, which is understandable since I am such a great guy and never offend anyone. 
Apr 3, 2004 | 2:36 pm
#22
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Originally Posted by dallasflyer
How do you see positive or negative comments about your reputation. I know that I am slow but can't see anything. Or maybe know one is commenting on mine, which is understandable since I am such a great guy and never offend anyone.
Apr 3, 2004 | 2:43 pm
#23
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 9,794
There is a similar thread in OMNI, but I suppose that this is the best forum
for the subject.
The anonymous nature of this feature can be a blessing, or a curse, for an
individual, depending on how they take it, and what they make of it.
As far as the more important perspective - - how it affects the overall FT
community and forums, including OMNI - - how will this play out for all of us?
This remains to be seen...
We have already seen a number of individuals 'dinged' for no apparent reason,
other than someone has decided that they are an adversary, and wish to bring
them down. And we have even seen at least one individual (who admitted it)
who tries to correct these wrongdoings...
So we have 'good' guys and 'bad' guys starting to battle it out in the 'reputation
game'. As I mentioned in the other thread, this is starting to seem like "Survivor",
and we don't need more 'reality' games like this - - we need more communication
and discussion between dissimilar viewpoints.
If there is a higher purpose for OMNI, this is where it can help bring around
something positive, or act as medium for change - - but not as a battleground
for individuals with personal grudges with other individuals, and their ideas...
And for the main body of FlyerTalk, I don't see how ANY spillover from the
OMNI grudges will help the purpose of helping other fellow travellers.
But perhaps there is a silver lining. It is possible, I assume, that the folks
who run the board, and make the FT decisions, CAN view the 'anonymous'
comments, and see who made them, just as they can view any FT member's
activity. This is already apparently done to assess any individual's attitude
and behavior, when it becomes necessary. An irresponsible and out of control
member who abuses the 'reputation' framework can be caught - - just like a
common criminal who thought that they could 'get away with something', just
because they thought no-one could - - or would - - see them.
I received one comment, which I will share - - since it was anonymous - -
it said: "ignore posts with which you disagree".
Hmmm....
Not only was I **not** disagreeing with any post or poster (just adding a
further comment, extending the thread of thought), but the person who
'dinged' me was the one who apparently disagreed with a post (my post,
or the fact that I posted). Why couldn't THEY ignore a post? So much
for logic and reason. I suppose that the anonymous commenter wishes that
everyone with an opposing viewpoint just 'shut up', as this would be more
convenient for them. If we all did as they suggested, there would be no
dissenting opinion in FT at all. Sounds pretty dictatorial to me...
I believe this illustrates the lack of logic used by some 'early adopters' of
this 'dinging game'. I certainly hope that this thread (and this forum) does
not become a dumping ground for every complaint from OMNI and / or for
every unfair 'reputation' comment. But if someone has a good example that
shows the problems (or promise) of this system, perhaps some of us will
tolerate more examples.
I wonder if it is possible to mandate the use of PM for the comments, or
perhaps allow replies to the anonymous commenter, but I suspect the best
course might be to disable 'reputation' and the comments altogether...
.
for the subject.
The anonymous nature of this feature can be a blessing, or a curse, for an
individual, depending on how they take it, and what they make of it.
As far as the more important perspective - - how it affects the overall FT
community and forums, including OMNI - - how will this play out for all of us?
This remains to be seen...
We have already seen a number of individuals 'dinged' for no apparent reason,
other than someone has decided that they are an adversary, and wish to bring
them down. And we have even seen at least one individual (who admitted it)
who tries to correct these wrongdoings...
So we have 'good' guys and 'bad' guys starting to battle it out in the 'reputation
game'. As I mentioned in the other thread, this is starting to seem like "Survivor",
and we don't need more 'reality' games like this - - we need more communication
and discussion between dissimilar viewpoints.
If there is a higher purpose for OMNI, this is where it can help bring around
something positive, or act as medium for change - - but not as a battleground
for individuals with personal grudges with other individuals, and their ideas...
And for the main body of FlyerTalk, I don't see how ANY spillover from the
OMNI grudges will help the purpose of helping other fellow travellers.
But perhaps there is a silver lining. It is possible, I assume, that the folks
who run the board, and make the FT decisions, CAN view the 'anonymous'
comments, and see who made them, just as they can view any FT member's
activity. This is already apparently done to assess any individual's attitude
and behavior, when it becomes necessary. An irresponsible and out of control
member who abuses the 'reputation' framework can be caught - - just like a
common criminal who thought that they could 'get away with something', just
because they thought no-one could - - or would - - see them.
I received one comment, which I will share - - since it was anonymous - -
it said: "ignore posts with which you disagree".
Hmmm....
Not only was I **not** disagreeing with any post or poster (just adding a
further comment, extending the thread of thought), but the person who
'dinged' me was the one who apparently disagreed with a post (my post,
or the fact that I posted). Why couldn't THEY ignore a post? So much
for logic and reason. I suppose that the anonymous commenter wishes that
everyone with an opposing viewpoint just 'shut up', as this would be more
convenient for them. If we all did as they suggested, there would be no
dissenting opinion in FT at all. Sounds pretty dictatorial to me...
I believe this illustrates the lack of logic used by some 'early adopters' of
this 'dinging game'. I certainly hope that this thread (and this forum) does
not become a dumping ground for every complaint from OMNI and / or for
every unfair 'reputation' comment. But if someone has a good example that
shows the problems (or promise) of this system, perhaps some of us will
tolerate more examples.
I wonder if it is possible to mandate the use of PM for the comments, or
perhaps allow replies to the anonymous commenter, but I suspect the best
course might be to disable 'reputation' and the comments altogether...
.
Last edited by IJK; Apr 3, 2004 at 2:49 pm
Apr 3, 2004 | 2:44 pm
#24
Original Poster
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,729
From what I see so far-- and this could change-- I actually like the reputation feature-- the description below helped me come to understand that it is a bit tougher to abuse than I would have thought originally, YMMV. The "comment" feature is still a big question-mark in my mind.
Here is a slightly easier to understand version of the FAQ (lifted from another v.bulletin BB) that I posted on page 1 here...
BTW, looks like 60 points is the the level at which one gets "[member] will be famous soon enough" (I think less than 60 is the "...on a distinguished path" moniker-- I think that's it, anyway.
Here is a slightly easier to understand version of the FAQ (lifted from another v.bulletin BB) that I posted on page 1 here...
This is from another site-- http://www.mini2.com -- that also uses vBulletin. Obviously all of the values are alterable by the individual board-owner-- as a small example, in the below you can see your last 10 reputations, on FT you can only see your last 5. I assume some of the values could be radically different here-- but it feels like many of them are similar if not the same (but that's strictly a guess, obviously.)
How does Reputation work?
Many have asked how the reputation system works. Below you will find the guidelines used to determine how many 'points' of reputation are awarded or taken away by each user.
Register Date Factor
For every 182 number of days, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.
Post Count Factor
For every 500 number of posts, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.
Reputation Point Factor
For every 100 points of reputation, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.
[Administrators give or take 50 points of reputation unless their calculated reputation-altering power is greater]
Minimum Post Count
Q: How many posts must a user have before his reputation hits count on others?
A: 100
Minimum Reputation Count
Q: How much reputation must a user have before his reputation hits count on others?
A: 30
Daily Reputation Clicks Limit [Administrators are exempt]
Q: How many reputation clicks can a user give over each 24 hour period?
A: 10
Reputation User Spread [Administrators are exempt]
Q: How many different users must you give reputation to before you can hit the same person again?
A: 20
Any user can let you know whether they approve or disapprove of one of your posts by clicking the [scales] button associated with the post. They should also provide a short comment as to why they approved or disapproved.
If you look in your User Control Panel you can see the last 10 reputations given to you. There will be a little dot next to each reputation:
A green dot means the user approved of your post, and as a result your reputation has grown,
A red dot means the user disapproved of your post, and as a result your reputation has "taken a hit",
A grey dot means the user giving you reputation has not yet met the minimum qualifications to do so, and you will have to read the associated comment to determine what they thought.
How does Reputation work?
Many have asked how the reputation system works. Below you will find the guidelines used to determine how many 'points' of reputation are awarded or taken away by each user.
Register Date Factor
For every 182 number of days, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.
Post Count Factor
For every 500 number of posts, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.
Reputation Point Factor
For every 100 points of reputation, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.
[Administrators give or take 50 points of reputation unless their calculated reputation-altering power is greater]
Minimum Post Count
Q: How many posts must a user have before his reputation hits count on others?
A: 100
Minimum Reputation Count
Q: How much reputation must a user have before his reputation hits count on others?
A: 30
Daily Reputation Clicks Limit [Administrators are exempt]
Q: How many reputation clicks can a user give over each 24 hour period?
A: 10
Reputation User Spread [Administrators are exempt]
Q: How many different users must you give reputation to before you can hit the same person again?
A: 20
Any user can let you know whether they approve or disapprove of one of your posts by clicking the [scales] button associated with the post. They should also provide a short comment as to why they approved or disapproved.
If you look in your User Control Panel you can see the last 10 reputations given to you. There will be a little dot next to each reputation:
A green dot means the user approved of your post, and as a result your reputation has grown,
A red dot means the user disapproved of your post, and as a result your reputation has "taken a hit",
A grey dot means the user giving you reputation has not yet met the minimum qualifications to do so, and you will have to read the associated comment to determine what they thought.
Last edited by JonNYC; Apr 3, 2004 at 2:59 pm Reason: add last comment
Apr 3, 2004 | 2:57 pm
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Just for that ScottC, I am leaving you a negative feedback 
Just kidding, I see you have two breathmints, how many fake ID's did you have to create in order to get that many positive responses
Just kidding, I see you have two breathmints, how many fake ID's did you have to create in order to get that many positive responses
Apr 3, 2004 | 2:58 pm
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: El Paso, TX, USA
Programs: Kicked out of all of them
Posts: 32,554
See, I just reponded to Scott's comments, and they went before this original post.
This is weird
This is weird
Apr 3, 2004 | 3:00 pm
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: El Paso, TX, USA
Programs: Kicked out of all of them
Posts: 32,554
Originally Posted by ScottC
I actually like the feature, I'm getting some really nice feedback from people I've helped out in threads and I'm leaving some feedback to people who have helped me.
I'm pretty sure it's turned into a game for some as certain posters went "negative" really fast, and then oddly recovered really fast, obviously asking buddies to "help them out", but come time I'm sure that it could turn into a pretty good pointer about someones online behavior, though I doubt it's going to last very long.
Better would be to leave to judging up to Randy and his staff (timeouts cost you, TOS violations cost you etc...)
I'm pretty sure it's turned into a game for some as certain posters went "negative" really fast, and then oddly recovered really fast, obviously asking buddies to "help them out", but come time I'm sure that it could turn into a pretty good pointer about someones online behavior, though I doubt it's going to last very long.
Better would be to leave to judging up to Randy and his staff (timeouts cost you, TOS violations cost you etc...)
Apr 3, 2004 | 3:02 pm
#28
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: El Paso, TX, USA
Programs: Kicked out of all of them
Posts: 32,554
I think my replies were using my computer time
Wow, I wonder how we are going to handle people who post in different time zones then
OK, sorry about all the posts, please don't leave me any negative feedback
Wow, I wonder how we are going to handle people who post in different time zones then
OK, sorry about all the posts, please don't leave me any negative feedback
Apr 3, 2004 | 3:02 pm
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2000
Programs: BA, AA, DL, KLM, UA
Posts: 37,489
I actually like the feature, I'm getting some really nice feedback from people I've helped out in threads and I'm leaving some feedback to people who have helped me.
I'm pretty sure it's turned into a game for some as certain posters went "negative" really fast, and then oddly recovered really fast, obviously asking buddies to "help them out", but come time I'm sure that it could turn into a pretty good pointer about someones online behavior, though I doubt it's going to last very long.
Better would be to leave to judging up to Randy and his staff (timeouts cost you, TOS violations cost you etc...)
I'm pretty sure it's turned into a game for some as certain posters went "negative" really fast, and then oddly recovered really fast, obviously asking buddies to "help them out", but come time I'm sure that it could turn into a pretty good pointer about someones online behavior, though I doubt it's going to last very long.
Better would be to leave to judging up to Randy and his staff (timeouts cost you, TOS violations cost you etc...)
Apr 3, 2004 | 5:40 pm
#30
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP/4MM, QF PLT, Marriott PLT
Posts: 1,425
^ Scott, I'm with you. It's not like one user can continuously keep changing a single user's reputation -- rather, they get their one vote and that's it for some period of time.
I hope that the FT management keeps reputations around for sufficient time to see how it all plays out -- I don't think it'll be as bad as some have predicted.
Also, maybe this could evolve into a slashdot-style filtering system for message reading. I think that would be outstanding!
I hope that the FT management keeps reputations around for sufficient time to see how it all plays out -- I don't think it'll be as bad as some have predicted.
Also, maybe this could evolve into a slashdot-style filtering system for message reading. I think that would be outstanding!