Why was this thread moved?
Feb 2, 2004 | 10:39 pm
#61
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: FTFOE
Programs: TalkBoard: We discuss / ad nauseum things that mean / so very little
Posts: 10,225
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ozstamps:
So:
"Why was this thread moved?" </font>
So:
"Why was this thread moved?" </font>
FewMiles..
Feb 2, 2004 | 10:42 pm
#62
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,351
Well to take my own advice, (something that often gets me into BIG trouble!) I went to make a post that directly addressed the thread starter's post, which to save you clicking back a page was:
Now I am smiling here to realise this thread is now 2 pages long, and it appears not one person has actually clicked on the embedded links Punki was referencing. (???)
Both those hot links take ME to:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000337.html
Which, without wishing to appear to speak for Punki (she does a very good job on her own doing that!) does not LOOK like a thread she'd be concerned about being closed down? Enough to start a thread on, anyway?
And I do not see any of the few posts there that would have me calling for "those moderators who participated in the slander and gossip be held accountable for their actions."
And it did not for me: "expose a rather unattractive side of several moderators" (Poor moderator flipside will be grievously offended if you are referring to him/her IMO!(
So Punki ... I can only guess the thread you did reference originally now has had its original URL allocated to :
"Florida Keys" ( ?????????? )
OR ... that you mis-posted the thread URL in your initial post?
What was the thread you WERE drawing to this board's attention?
------------------
~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from a UA 747-400 exit row 15 near you SOON!
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Punki:
Why was this thread, and only this thread moved?
I realize that it exposed a rather unattractive side of several moderators, but I personally would like to see the thread stand and have those moderators who participated in the slander and gossip be held accountable for their actions.
Having witnessed, both first and second-hand some of the questionable activity that goes on behind closed doors on TalkBoard, and now seeing it second-hand on TalkTeam, my preference would be to eliminate private boards. There is nothing that needs to be said by either TalkBoard or TalkTeam members that can't be said in public and it would appear that the illusion of secrecy just brings out the worst in some folks.
</font>
Why was this thread, and only this thread moved?
I realize that it exposed a rather unattractive side of several moderators, but I personally would like to see the thread stand and have those moderators who participated in the slander and gossip be held accountable for their actions.
Having witnessed, both first and second-hand some of the questionable activity that goes on behind closed doors on TalkBoard, and now seeing it second-hand on TalkTeam, my preference would be to eliminate private boards. There is nothing that needs to be said by either TalkBoard or TalkTeam members that can't be said in public and it would appear that the illusion of secrecy just brings out the worst in some folks.
</font>
Both those hot links take ME to:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000337.html
Which, without wishing to appear to speak for Punki (she does a very good job on her own doing that!) does not LOOK like a thread she'd be concerned about being closed down? Enough to start a thread on, anyway?
And I do not see any of the few posts there that would have me calling for "those moderators who participated in the slander and gossip be held accountable for their actions."
And it did not for me: "expose a rather unattractive side of several moderators" (Poor moderator flipside will be grievously offended if you are referring to him/her IMO!(
So Punki ... I can only guess the thread you did reference originally now has had its original URL allocated to :
"Florida Keys" ( ?????????? )
OR ... that you mis-posted the thread URL in your initial post?
What was the thread you WERE drawing to this board's attention?
------------------
~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from a UA 747-400 exit row 15 near you SOON!
Feb 2, 2004 | 11:34 pm
#63
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: El Paso, TX, USA
Programs: Kicked out of all of them
Posts: 32,554
Before I leave for bed, as it is getting extremely late in here, I only have one question to ask all of those that are enjoying this latest incident.
Out of all those people, that us moderators were "conspiring" against, how many them were actually banned from FT?
I don't have the list of people, but since ozstamps has saved all of them, maybe he can refresh my memory.
All the people mentioned can post in FT, whether they do it or not is out of their own free will.
And no one here can deny, that some of those people mentioned are either very active and sometimes controversial individuals.
It is no wonder that they might have frustrated a few of us, and that is the reason why we post it those frustrations.
Every single job in the world causes frustration, this shouldn't be the exception.
And now, I will go to bed, and as fas as the question in hand, I have no clue why those posts are now in the Florida keys.
Maybe they entered the Bermuda triangle by accident
Out of all those people, that us moderators were "conspiring" against, how many them were actually banned from FT?
I don't have the list of people, but since ozstamps has saved all of them, maybe he can refresh my memory.
All the people mentioned can post in FT, whether they do it or not is out of their own free will.
And no one here can deny, that some of those people mentioned are either very active and sometimes controversial individuals.
It is no wonder that they might have frustrated a few of us, and that is the reason why we post it those frustrations.
Every single job in the world causes frustration, this shouldn't be the exception.
And now, I will go to bed, and as fas as the question in hand, I have no clue why those posts are now in the Florida keys.
Maybe they entered the Bermuda triangle by accident
Feb 2, 2004 | 11:49 pm
#64
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Reality, Freedom
Programs: AF FB Platinum For Life (F+ Rouge Vintage) / Hertz President's Circle / SNCF Grand Voyageur Le Club
Posts: 10,111
Absolutely unbelievable. 
Moderators: hang in there, I think a large majority of the FT community support and appreciate your daily efforts ... and when they disagree with your decisions, they manage to do so in a mature, respectful manner that doesn't disrupt the community.
Thanks again.
Moderators: hang in there, I think a large majority of the FT community support and appreciate your daily efforts ... and when they disagree with your decisions, they manage to do so in a mature, respectful manner that doesn't disrupt the community.
Thanks again.
Feb 2, 2004 | 11:51 pm
#65
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,351
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jfe:
And now, I will go to bed, and as fas as the question in hand, I have no clue why those posts are now in the Florida keys.
Maybe they entered the Bermuda triangle by accident</font>
And now, I will go to bed, and as fas as the question in hand, I have no clue why those posts are now in the Florida keys.
Maybe they entered the Bermuda triangle by accident
</font>
Feb 3, 2004 | 12:46 am
#66
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Swindon, England
Programs: VS Gold, FD Blue+, *A/BD Gold, BA Blue, DL, Hyatt Gold, HHonors Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 82
ozstamps
<lurk mode off>
FYI - I followed that link when Punki first posted this thread. IIRC, it was the TalkTeam one about Punki's "objections to moderation" and it was the first of the TalkTeam threads to be moved. It was definitely not one that related to Florida Keys
I'm presuming that the eventual removal of that and all the other TalkTeam threads caused the URL referencing to go "screwy" (and yes, that's a technical term)
<lurk>
Cheers
Michael
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"> does not LOOK like a thread she'd be concerned about being closed down? Enough to start a thread on, anyway? </font>
FYI - I followed that link when Punki first posted this thread. IIRC, it was the TalkTeam one about Punki's "objections to moderation" and it was the first of the TalkTeam threads to be moved. It was definitely not one that related to Florida Keys
I'm presuming that the eventual removal of that and all the other TalkTeam threads caused the URL referencing to go "screwy" (and yes, that's a technical term
)<lurk>
Cheers
Michael
Feb 3, 2004 | 4:20 am
#67
Original Poster
In Memoriam
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Seattle
Programs: Ephesians 4:31-32
Posts: 10,690
I wonder if the moving of those threads from ORP also caused them to be removed from my computer, where I had saved them.
There is, obviously, a very miserable person, with a bit of hacking knowledge and a grudge against me, on the loose.
There are some strange folks out there creating some strange days.
There is, obviously, a very miserable person, with a bit of hacking knowledge and a grudge against me, on the loose.
There are some strange folks out there creating some strange days.
Feb 3, 2004 | 6:21 am
#68
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,729
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by blairvanhorn:
Absolutely unbelievable.
Moderators: hang in there, I think a large majority of the FT community support and appreciate your daily efforts ... and when they disagree with your decisions, they manage to do so in a mature, respectful manner that doesn't disrupt the community.
Thanks again.</font>
Absolutely unbelievable.
Moderators: hang in there, I think a large majority of the FT community support and appreciate your daily efforts ... and when they disagree with your decisions, they manage to do so in a mature, respectful manner that doesn't disrupt the community.
Thanks again.</font>
Feb 3, 2004 | 7:30 am
#69
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 7
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jfe:
Whoever this troll was he/she posted in this forum were a bunch of half lies, posted only partial information that suited his purposes, and twisted the truth to make his point.</font>
Whoever this troll was he/she posted in this forum were a bunch of half lies, posted only partial information that suited his purposes, and twisted the truth to make his point.</font>
Please don't try to re-write history now that the proof is no longer posted on the bulletin board.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">I am sick and tired of people just taking cheap shots at us.
</font>
</font>
Or were they spreading slander about you and hijacking the passwords to your accounts to make vicious posts?
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Love that bolding!
[This message has been edited by Enquiring Mind (edited Feb 03, 2004).]
Feb 3, 2004 | 7:34 am
#70
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in KOH LANTA,THAILAND!
Posts: 61,898
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">I think that anyone who posts information from a private forum on flyertalk into a public forum on flyertalk should be banned.</font>
And as I said, the original emails came unsolicited from insiders.
And if you think that I am going to name names or blame the whitle-blowers then you are more nutz than I am!
I have acutally been on both sides of this disaster. I basically quit moderating duties on mmiles when I felt that the moderators began taking and reacting personally to moderation issues. There also developed a sort of short-hand for dealing with perceived trouble-makers with which I was not comfortable. So I left. I know moderating can be a frustrating and seemingly thankless task and I know that I do not have a thick enough skin or a stong enough sense of fair-mindedness to do it properly. As I admit above, were I in that star-chamber (my term!) I would have behaved similarly.
Look, there is no sense in:
1) any more blame game or
2) any more hurt feelings/egos/pride.
For one thing, that is not what this COMMUNITY is supposed to be about. Second, it is JAFIBB.
How about this: I propose that whether I am banned or not for my year-old revelations, all parties, anonymous or not, involved in this mess gather together at a central location, and I will host an open bar so we can lubricate relationships and start the healing process (and, of course, give little-needed fodder to the 'boy does that koko drink too much' rumor mill
).Such a gathering would be, IMHO, not only in the true spirit of flyertalk, it would also provide an opportunity for a much-needed group hug.
Feb 3, 2004 | 7:47 am
#71
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 7,582
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Enquiring Mind:
Which of the moderator quotes posted over the weekend were false? None of them. They were all verbatim and accurate. Randy confirmed this.</font>
Which of the moderator quotes posted over the weekend were false? None of them. They were all verbatim and accurate. Randy confirmed this.</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Randy Petersen:
As for the posts, they are true comments made by moderators on FlyerTalk. I nor the moderators would deny that. But the way in which they have been presented are not a true and accurate reflection of the dialog. </font>
As for the posts, they are true comments made by moderators on FlyerTalk. I nor the moderators would deny that. But the way in which they have been presented are not a true and accurate reflection of the dialog. </font>
Feb 3, 2004 | 8:04 am
#72
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Programs: AA GLD 1MM, Delta GLD, Hilton GLD
Posts: 1,233
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ClueByFour:
You wanted sunshine, you have sunshine. Once again, you have ignored the context of my post, so I will bold it again in the hopes that you get it:
I think that anyone who posts information from a private forum on flyertalk into a public forum on flyertalk should be banned.
That's been the context of my comment on every forum, public or private on flyertalk on this particular issue. I urge you to take it up with Randy if you seek further clarification or corroboration. Randy is a kind enough individual that he will probably give you the corroboration you allegedly seek--if I were in his shoes, I'd tell you to pound salt (I don't like it when somebody defecates in my virtual living room).
You know, there is a very simple solution to keep the board owner or the folks who he has appointed to stop discussing anything you might say or do, and that's to stop violating the TOS and posting information from a clearly private forum just to stir up trouble.
I don't think you will do that, as I truly believe you thrive more on the rabble-rousing than actually trying to better the community. I'd like to be wrong, but history is stronger than the desire of any one man.
</font>
You wanted sunshine, you have sunshine. Once again, you have ignored the context of my post, so I will bold it again in the hopes that you get it:
I think that anyone who posts information from a private forum on flyertalk into a public forum on flyertalk should be banned.
That's been the context of my comment on every forum, public or private on flyertalk on this particular issue. I urge you to take it up with Randy if you seek further clarification or corroboration. Randy is a kind enough individual that he will probably give you the corroboration you allegedly seek--if I were in his shoes, I'd tell you to pound salt (I don't like it when somebody defecates in my virtual living room).
You know, there is a very simple solution to keep the board owner or the folks who he has appointed to stop discussing anything you might say or do, and that's to stop violating the TOS and posting information from a clearly private forum just to stir up trouble.
I don't think you will do that, as I truly believe you thrive more on the rabble-rousing than actually trying to better the community. I'd like to be wrong, but history is stronger than the desire of any one man.
</font>
No where in there do members have the right or obligation to ban or timeout members. That right or obligation is Randy's.
Moderators had a great forum for discussing moderation. Some moderators began discussing non-moderation issues in that forum. That seems to me to be a problem.
If I have mis-understood anything please correct me and I apoligize in advance.
------------------
dallasflyer, Living in Denver and Dallas, oh boy!
[This message has been edited by dallasflyer (edited Feb 03, 2004).]
Feb 3, 2004 | 8:05 am
#73
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,351
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kokonutz:
Than ban me first, as I certainly did post in FT public forums the allegedly slanderous comments that cigarman made about me to the original talkboard. Both for confirmation and also for confrontation.
And as I said, the original emails came unsolicited from insiders.
And if you think that I am going to name names or blame the whitle-blowers then you are more nutz than I am!
I have acutally been on both sides of this disaster. I basically quit moderating duties on mmiles when I felt that the moderators began taking and reacting personally to moderation issues. There also developed a sort of short-hand for dealing with perceived trouble-makers with which I was not comfortable. So I left. I know moderating can be a frustrating and seemingly thankless task and I know that I do not have a thick enough skin or a stong enough sense of fair-mindedness to do it properly. As I admit above, were I in that star-chamber (my term!) I would have behaved similarly.
Look, there is no sense in:
1) any more blame game or
2) any more hurt feelings/egos/pride.
For one thing, that is not what this COMMUNITY is supposed to be about. Second, it is JAFIBB.
How about this: I propose that whether I am banned or not for my year-old revelations, all parties, anonymous or not, involved in this mess gather together at a central location, and I will host an open bar so we can lubricate relationships and start the healing process (and, of course, give little-needed fodder to the 'boy does that koko drink too much' rumor mill).
Such a gathering would be, IMHO, not only in the true spirit of flyertalk, it would also provide an opportunity for a much-needed group hug.</font>
Than ban me first, as I certainly did post in FT public forums the allegedly slanderous comments that cigarman made about me to the original talkboard. Both for confirmation and also for confrontation.
And as I said, the original emails came unsolicited from insiders.
And if you think that I am going to name names or blame the whitle-blowers then you are more nutz than I am!
I have acutally been on both sides of this disaster. I basically quit moderating duties on mmiles when I felt that the moderators began taking and reacting personally to moderation issues. There also developed a sort of short-hand for dealing with perceived trouble-makers with which I was not comfortable. So I left. I know moderating can be a frustrating and seemingly thankless task and I know that I do not have a thick enough skin or a stong enough sense of fair-mindedness to do it properly. As I admit above, were I in that star-chamber (my term!) I would have behaved similarly.
Look, there is no sense in:
1) any more blame game or
2) any more hurt feelings/egos/pride.
For one thing, that is not what this COMMUNITY is supposed to be about. Second, it is JAFIBB.
How about this: I propose that whether I am banned or not for my year-old revelations, all parties, anonymous or not, involved in this mess gather together at a central location, and I will host an open bar so we can lubricate relationships and start the healing process (and, of course, give little-needed fodder to the 'boy does that koko drink too much' rumor mill
).Such a gathering would be, IMHO, not only in the true spirit of flyertalk, it would also provide an opportunity for a much-needed group hug.</font>
Well as to the open bar - that I can easily arrange.
Now as to "central location" ... there is always SYDNEY on May 20/23.
C'mon kokonutz .... you must have a million UA miles looking to be spent on a 120K First Class Sleeper award down here before they crank it up to 200K which will occur this year IMO.
A number of familiar faces are signed up already.
Anyone who makes it down ... drinks are on me. Or as Rudi often carefully posts - "one (1) drink is on me".
Someone will need to take the photo of the "group hug"
------------------
~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from a UA 747-400 exit row 15 near you SOON!
Feb 3, 2004 | 8:08 am
#74
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 7
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JeremyZ:
Surprised you're back </font>
Surprised you're back </font>
They can't let it go.
He didn't ban Oz, or Punki, or kokonutz, or doc, or Dovster, or any of the people whom the current bullies-of-the-moment demands that he ban.
Randy closed the gossip shack.
Now move on and stop the bashing.
End of story.
Feb 3, 2004 | 8:17 am
#75
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 7,582
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Enquiring Mind:
And I'm surprised some people insist on utilizing these threads to continue to attack Ozstamps, Punki, et al.
They can't let it go.
He didn't ban Oz, or Punki, or kokonutz, or doc, or Dovster, or any of the people whom the current bullies-of-the-moment demands that he ban.
Randy closed the gossip shack.
Now move on and stop the bashing.
End of story.</font>
And I'm surprised some people insist on utilizing these threads to continue to attack Ozstamps, Punki, et al.
They can't let it go.
He didn't ban Oz, or Punki, or kokonutz, or doc, or Dovster, or any of the people whom the current bullies-of-the-moment demands that he ban.
Randy closed the gossip shack.
Now move on and stop the bashing.
End of story.</font>
I thought the goal of this little bit of civil disobedience was to get these discussions in the open. It's inconsistent to demand that and then complain when it occurs.
I don't think Randy has given his final word on the topic, and I, for one won't be persuaded by a fake alter ego that the issue is closed. Can't speak for anyone else.
The issue of massive TOS violations certainly continues if you maintain this second handle.