A proposed solution.
 

It is my sincere belief that anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, should be allowed to post on FlyerTalk as long as there are no major (or highly frequent minor) infractions of the TOS. To this end, let it be clear that I have no intentions of leaving FT whatsoever.

I am sorry that things have gotten out of hand in the UA forum. However, I know that together we can establish a new era of peace and productivity on FlyerTalk.

In doing my part, I will tone down my commentary, but ask for that same respect from the fellow members. I am always willing and indeed eager to listen to the input of others, so long as my opinions are respected.

I recognize that some issues may be too sensitive for discussion on FT. Therefore, if anyone wishes to discuss highly controversial issues, please feel free to contact me anytime at [email protected].

It it my sincere hope that the final product of this worthwhile discussion is a renewed spirit of optimism and hope for THE internet's premier frequent-flyer community.

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Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif
An advance "Thank You" to avek00 and everyone else in your future posts on FT! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I am pleased to see this post from avek00. I have met avek00, and know that he is a bright young man with a promising future. I've also talked to avek directly re my concern over his continued posts on topics which I have likened to water drip torture. I, for one, support this as a way to bring reasonable dialogue back to our airline forums.

[This message has been edited by SanDiego1K (edited 05-21-2003).]

Thank you avek00 for taking the time to propose a MATURE solution to the current impasse. I'm sure I speak for most of the users here when I say that such a solution is welcome and hopefully will be in the best interests of the entire community.

This is IMHO the only workable solution and I am glad you have taken this route. I trust that if you are sincere and stick to this that the participants in the boards will see that this is the best solution for all parties and that FT can get back to "business as usual".

Thanks to Avek and a big thanks in advance to those supporting this!

As I've said before, you're welcome to post news and opinion anywhere you please - including on boards of airlines you don't fly.

So long as the comments stay on topic and aren't personal attacks, please feel free to participate as appropriate.

Thank you Avek00, hope that all works out well for you.

B747, please consider reviewing your post as it seem a little inflamatory for a make-up and let's be civil thread. The MATURE part seemed a little over the top to me.

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dallasflyer

Avek00,

While you posted the following in the Continental forum:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum20/HTML/008067.html

posted 05-21-2003 01:17 PM

a scant ~ 2 ½ hours before your “MATURE” post here, I sincerely look forward to your “…renewed spirit of optimism and hope…” and I anxiously await your sharing of your experiences so that we can all benefit.

Your opinions always seem to be so negative, at least in the few posts of yours I’ve noticed, that you might consider sharing some of your positive experiences, thoughts and opinions?


[This message has been edited by transpac (edited 05-21-2003).]

C'mon - let's be fair, and give everybody the chance to fulfill their part of this deal before doubting them. Avek was responding to the prior post:

His response was entirely within the "spirit" of the exchange. The CO board can be pretty rowdy.

While I found this particular response to be somewhat "IMMATURE" regardless of the forum, or "spirit", I am more than willing to be fair, and look forward to Avek00's opportunities to fulfill his "part of the deal". My point was that, regardless of the rowdiness of the CO forum, old habits rarely change in 2 1/2 hours. I do sincerely look forward to Avek00's positive contributions going forward.

No need to defend him at such an early point, in my opinion.

I note avek00 agrees things have "gotten out of hand in the UA Forum". He'll get no argument from me.

I am sure ALL here would welcome "a new era of peace and productivity on FlyerTalk".

I might make the suggestion that if he is indeed sincere about ensuring FT quietens down and becomes more civil ... that he posts here and now that he has given himself a voluntary 2 week (or longer) time-out from posting in the United Airlines Forum. (I make no comment about other Forums.)

In the past those that caused disruptions to FT (myself included) have had that decision made for them. As avek00 is clearly still posting here this is a perfect opportunity to exhibit good faith to Randy and all on FT that he truly means what he says.

I for one would appreciate all topics in that Forum being related to FACTS about United and MP for at least a fortnight, and would certainly do MY bit to undertake a 100% 'avek-free zone' re my posted comments. Others may agree to do likewise - they might post here if they do.

And all of us after such a self-imposed time out can judge whether the UA board was a more friendly and productive and informative place to visit during that period. Or not.

If avek00 is agreeable to this, I think it would make a crystal clear and most WELCOME sign that he is indeed prepared to assist in resolving the present tensions.

Become part of the solution, not part of the problem. And if he is actually serious about "toning down his commentary", my respect for him and his newly stated intentions will have increased greatly. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif

As noted by several others on a nearby thread this poster almost singlehandedly caused the total closure of the rather fine www.planebusiness.com BB - using exactly the same posting behaviour as we have seen lately on FT.

None here want to see that end result I feel sure. When I see a good person like a particular Moderator give herself a day ago a voluntary time-out (only from this board) over recent events - the warning signs are plainly there.

If avek00 is really serious about the comments above I'd request HE respond directly to this request on this thread. Not his friend or agents - but personally, so there can be no doubt whatever about the meaning and possible undertaking.

So far all we have are soothing words, saying little in the detail, and as transpac demonstates, the actual post content only hours earlier have not changed one iota.

Many have stated his primary purpose for posting as he does on FT is to revel in the angry reactions. Well agreeing NOT to post for a while will clearly ensure there are no angry responses.

If avek00 is not able or willing to publicly consider this offer, I for one have no confidence whatever as to the sincerity of his post above. I do hope he agrees.

Over to avek00 ....................

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~ Glen ~

Come visit HERE the most ** FRIENDLY FORUM ** on FlyerTalk. No flame wars, no personal abuse, no substance abuse. Not much of anything really!

Why should he give himself a time-out?

If any of his actions warrant a time-out, I am quite confident that Randy will intervene.

It simply amazes me that even though avek has taken a MAJOR step here, there are others who think they can make demands of him!

Thank you avek00 for making that first step with your post here.

Now, those (we?) on the other side of the fence, might better do to concentrate how we will do 'our' part, than asking for more from the 'other' party right away.

[This message has been edited by Rudi (edited 05-22-2003).]

I'm more amused that Avek demanded respect after causing havok here for months and months. Respect (at least mine) is earned.

Though I am (as always) skeptical, lets hope all works out for the best. Unlike what some in other threads may think, this has nothing to do with Avek himself; only his tone and approach to posting things has prompted this.

And, as I stated in another thread, this siuation is no different than the situation regarding ***.

Difference is that the clique liked *** and does not like avek.

I agree with you completely on this issue. I will voluntarily restrict myself from posting any opinion pieces on the United forum for the next 2 weeks. I hope that this will help to restore some semblance of normalcy there. I trust that you will keep to your side of the bargain as well.

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Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Sounds like a big caveat to me!

I'm not certain who *** is but the only poster who had three letters in his name that I haven't seen for a while was "king of the press release", Doc.

What happened to him away?

If that is an agreement to my suggestion above not to post in the United Forum for 2 weeks to allow tings to cool down, we have a deal.

That is indeed good to hear and a huge step forward for the Community as a whole. I trust that both sides will stick to their agreements and that we will soon be back to the peaceful Flyertalk we all have grown to love.

I concur Sean. It WOULD be nice to hear that this indeed is agreed to by avek00. So far it has not been.

Effectively immediately and for 14 days hence, I will not make any posts in the UA forum. I trust that we can all get along and look forward to working together in earnest to establish the new peace and prosperity that will propel FlyerTalk to even greater heights.

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Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif

Thank you for taking this postion avek00 and I am sure things will cool down for all concerned. I for one will keep my agreement to be avek00 comment free with my postings in that Forum. I really hope others will see their way free to do likewise, and give the hard working moderators a fortnight (at least!) of rest. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif



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~ Glen ~

Come visit HERE the most ** FRIENDLY FORUM ** on FlyerTalk. No flame wars, no personal abuse, no substance abuse. Not much of anything really!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/003391.html

doc seems fine it seems to me. Perhaps he was busy with other things for a while?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I am pleased with this turn of events. Without avek00's participation, the United forum should return to being a civil and informative place for the rest of us.

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-Otto

it needs both (all) sides to make a Forum civilized ... or not - in the past, now, for the next fortnight, and even more afterwards.

[This message has been edited by Rudi (edited 05-22-2003).]

Randy - as the AvekOO AE has not apologized to the board for his/her actions, *please* continue to pursue discipline for that member.

That person was active on at least two other forums (AA and CO) that play no part in this "deal." I have not spoken with kcctravel since the CHIA incident, but assume that member's departure was not voluntary.

Thank you.

This is an even better solution. It will allow all involved (including myself) to cool their respective heads. Thank you to all for working out.

Thank you Avek00, good luck to you on your FT future.

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dallasflyer

I guess it's trolling only when someone else does it. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

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Vasant

I like that idea especially http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif and will look forward to a new era http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

While I'll be the first to admit that OttoGraham goes overboard at times, I think the matter is best served by letting bygones be bygones as avek00 is willing to do and look to the future instead of the past. Dwelling on past transgressions by either party serves no purpose other than to incite tensions that are best avoided as we try to make this "ceasefire" work.

As a relatively new member, I have noted from the sidelines (and by looking at previous forums] debates from both sides.

I, like most others here who have previously commented, applaud the truce and olive branches that have been coming from both sides. Now we are seeing true gentlemen and ladies.

avek00, you have started to earn trust from all FT'ers by posting your unequivocable statement. For some, the respect will be hard earned...but nobody should live in the past. We look forward to your constructive points on boards throughout FT (with the obvious exception previously noted by all parties).

To all the other FT'ers whose opinions I have come to value, thank you also for continuing to inform us all. Know that it is not thankless...but some people show it in diferent ways.

Now, has anybody got an answer to those hundreds of posts that remain unanswered. Let's get back to them... and all the FF points that await us http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif

I guess the ceasefire only means a lack of trolling in the UA forum. I give you the following gem from the AA forum:

"Arpey would have been off to a bad start with the financial/investment community (i.e., the people who will determine if AA stays out of BK) had he not displayed management's comprehension of the company's problems by taking steps to correct the blunders of the Carty era, such as the systemwide MRTC concept."

That was posted by Avek00 around 5-23/8.13am or thereabouts, FT time in the following thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../016386-6.html

I want someone to tell me how baiting thet AA forum regulars is of a lessor evil than baiting the UA forum regulars?




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Saving the world, one clue at a time.

I've read the comments above regarding the post by avek00 and frankly I can't see anything other than another member's opinion. And I've read it five times thinking I must be missing something but for the life of me can't see anything sinister, out-of-place or remotely related to trolling with his comments. In fact, I could easily see myself making such a statement.

I find far more disruptive, the actions by another member who recently registered under a similar member name (avekOO) and posted confusing and smart ... comments.

THANK YOU RANDY!

While I do not always agree with avek's opinions, I always try to debate the issue, not the member.

I hope that you will be not only looking into the AvekOO situation, but also looking into the vigilanties who have been attacking the "real" avek relentlessly.

Let me add my thanks, Randy. This is getting beyond ridiculous. While I rarely, if ever, agree with avek00's opinions, I am furious that there are so many who would deny him (or anyone else) the right to express them. I hope they will cease and desist, now that you have made your views known.

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Vasant

Well, since Randy said it, let me agree. I was going to post something yesterday, to the effect, what is the big deal? I read some of avek's posts, and while he strikes me as a little cheeky, and sometimes over the top (as with the betty ford remark), I guess I just don't get it. Okay, so some people don't LIKE his posts and wish he would go away. But that's not going to happen, and we all have to get along, so just ignore what you don't want to read. When I am following a thread and I scroll down to the poster's name, if it's someone I don't want to read, I just don't. Seems fairly simple.