To get back on the topic of whether threads should be closed or left open in "borderline cases", I would like to make a comment.

In the Star Alliance forum, a user opened a thread asking about MX Frecuenta yesterday or today. Granted, whatever special forum there might be that deals with MX Frecuenta, this might be the even more appropriate place to place this thread. However, from my perspective as someone who simply cannot monitor ALL subfora all the time (right now, I monitor LH, Star, Oneworld, BA, TravelBuzz, Trip Reports, United, SQ, Hilton, Marriott, Starwood, Coupon Connection, all on one personalized page, if you are interested in the URL for this great service, please let me know), I would basically not have become aware of Frecuenta as a potential option at all if the user had not cross-posted.

Yes, I know, even if the thread is closed, for a little while it will still be there to make other users aware of potential possibilities. However, if the thread had not been closed, I assume it could have gotten more answers, could have stayed on top longer and more people could have become aware of a potentially very attractive option to deposit their miles.

The user asked very politely not to close the thread and explained his reasoning for cross-posting. I fully understand the reasoning behind preventing cross-posting. However, I just want to state that it also has its benefits, as the cross-post about the LH/Starwood promo showed, and, in my opinion, the cross-post about MX Frecuenta would have been another example.

I would draw an analogy to a football (soccer for you ignorant Americans http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif) referee that sees a foul - he CAN draw the yellow card, but sometimes, in borderline cases, it will be better for the flow of the game if he does not do it. It seems like in the *A and LH forum (the two fora I am most interested in), a thread will always be closed if it is borderline. It's like a referee showing a yellow card for every single foul he sees (which never happens in football).

Therefore, while I strongly disagree with all the inexcusable personal insults made towards the moderator in this thread and other threads, I would like to appeal to Patron to use his judgment ("Fingerspitzengefühl") in a slightly more lenient way - even if you see a tackle that probably is a foul, you don't have to show the yellow card every single time.

While I commend Patron for not reacting to the personal insults, I would appreciate a comment by Patron or Randy on the issues of allowing cross-posting as long as it is not blatantly unnecessary or disturbing and as long as it might have the benefit of making people aware of something they might not have found otherwise or of generating more responses in one particular forum compared to one that hardly gets any visitors and responses anyway.

Also, I think that the following question might merit some thinking by Patron and perhaps Randy:

Whether the benefits of moving every single thread exactly to the subforum that, according to the forum definitions, would be the most correct to place the thread in outweigh the frustration caused by getting threads closed which were placed in a particular forum with no harm intended and perhaps with some thinking by the user behind it why it might be better to place it in that forum. Being very rigid by closing threads very quickly causes frustration and triggers debates like these which would otherwise not be necessary. It gives people - whether this is warranted or not, but it clearly does - the feeling of being "policed" when they feel they have not done anything wrong. I think that if someone really posts in the wrong forum intentionally or recklessly or if a thread really does not belong, the "problem" will quickly solve itself - first of all, users will "self-police" and make the thread starter aware of his mistake and secondly, the number of responses to a thread is ultimately an indicator of whether the forum choice was right or not.

Furthermore, having threads stray a little bit off-topic can be entertaining at times and can further the "community" aspect of Flyertalk. Closing these threads quickly just because people went from discussing award points to discussing "Currywurst" keeps the forum more serious, which can be an advantage (more information or communication deemed irrelevant by the moderator gets filtered out) but which can also be a disadvantage ("bonding" between members of the group gets a bit discouraged, the entertainment value goes down, sometimes threads which have seemingly gone off-topic still produce interesting information etc.).

I have been working in the Internet industry for years and I have been visiting message boards for years as well and I have never seen fora where threads would get closed this rigorously and quickly. I am not sure, but perhaps belonging or not belonging to an age group that has "grown up" and is very familiar with the "message board culture" as it has developed on the Internet over the years plays a role here...

Sorry for this long post, I guess I had too much time on my hands today http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif. I know that I am just a guest here, that all rules on Flyertalk are ultimately made by its owner and that I have no right to ask for anything. I would just like to contribute to a hopefully constructive discussion on how to approach threads that might not be 100 % on topic, but still have value to many of the visitors of the forum. During the past year, I have learned to appreciate Flyertalk as a great resource of information and entertainment and I have been visiting it daily. In order to make sure that my comment is understood as a constructive one, I would like to take this opportunity again to thank the owner of this community for providing it, to thank all the moderators, including Patron, for their willingness to sacrifice their time and then even put up with getting criticized for it; and I would also like to thank all those, especially Patron, whose advice has helped me to have more fun with the travel planning and the traveling itself! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif



[This message has been edited by attorney28 (edited 05-10-2003).]

One of the best posts I have read in a potentially explosive thread. Well done Attorney28 I cannot agree with you more.

attorney28 - great post (apart from the bit about insults, we will have to agree to disagree on that, I personally would not have a problem if the same things were said to me in some of the forums I moderate elsewhere http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif ).

One thing for moderators to remember - and I am sometimes guilty of forgetting this myself when moderating - is that sometimes posters have very specific reasons for posting things where they do. Sometimes it is an accident, other times it was placed in a specific forum for the sole reason of getting input from the regulars in that forum. To put it into an FT context, there might be very valid reasons for asking about redeeming QF awards in the AA forum, and the thread should not be moved *specifically* because it was in the AA forum. What I would do in a case like that is to open dialogue with the poster - either on ICQ or IRC (preferred) or by email (least preferred) to ascertain the reasons why it was (apparently) misplaced. If the reasons were sound, i would leave it where it was.

Cheers, and happy flying.

Dave

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Please email to [email protected] Thanks very much

Yet again Patron is closing threads that he believes are against the rules:-

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum82/HTML/001488.html

He has explained why he has moved it but I do not agree with his rationale. This thread is about a *A Award. Yes, zrs70 is using United Miles to pay for it but I think it is of general interest to those of us who are members of other *A carriers and are looking to maximise *A awards. What is wrong with leaving it where it is?

The *A and LH forums are becoming a joke. Or more correctly, Patron is turning them in to a joke.

Randy - Please do something about this over exuberant Moderation.

Wow, blind Freddy couldn't have missed the inference there (whoops, there I go again, insulting the blind now....).

Your agreement, or lack thereof, is irrelevant - particularly when the Australian tradition of taking the piss, right up to a member of Parliament calling the Prime Minister an "arse licker", is so evident, even here on Flyertalk.

I take it you do agree that this happened, that no apology was demanded by the Speaker of the House, and that there was no blood spilled in the streets as a result? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

The simple fact is that if both posters and moderators alike could just RELAX a little, the number of brew-ups, and subsequent posts to this forum, would be dramatically reduced.

The number of threads here seems to be growing daily, and whilst it smacks of "running to teacher", when there's enough smoke there's bound to be a little fire.

Sure, moderators exist to ensure continuity and functionality in a forum - but will the entire Flyertalk operation fall over if somebody asks about Sydney hotels in the QF forum? I think not.

A little less thin skin and a little more patience could go a long way to ensuring to ongoing usefulness of FlyerTalk, which, all these issues aside, ****s all over every other FF forum on the web.

Then you clearly haven't met too many Australians.

Mind you, all this fuss does expose a nice little double-standard at work in the Western 'self-loathing victim' mindset.

You're quite willing to get stuck into thadocta for claiming the 'cultural differences' defence when you don't like his behaviour - but would you be so quick to sink the boot into Ahmed Khamandi for kicking up a stink about being touched by pigskin gloves?

you bet , shillard, you bet ! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif