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I actually don't think there's anything wrong with quoting what people have written on these public boards. If you're willing to put your handle to your posts, you should stand by them. Taking private correspondence and making it public is probably inappropriate.
And maybe DOC 2 BE has done some of this. If so, I'd suggest that only illustrates that any points he'd hoped to make have gotten lost in the noise. |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MagMile: DOC 2 BE, I know this type of advice never works, yet I offer it. Maybe you feel like everyone is against you, so your response to go down fighting. If so, perhaps you make yourself feel good in the process--you obviously enjoy a vigorous debate--but what's the point? Consider this. If there really are some anti-Semitic statements or anti-Semites in FlyerTalk land, do you think they'd be condoned. If you can demonstrate that certain individuals are anti-Semites, do you really doubt that they'd be effectively shunned here? Instead, all of the attention has become focused on you and your arguments with different people. Why do you think that is? Is that because we're all a bunch of anti-Semites or is it because your communications style is ineffective? Is it effective to take issue with anyone who disagrees with you by, for example, making condescending statements about his/her level of education or intelligence? Is it really so important to "prove" your points and your superiority? Or are there better ways to show that certain individuals are anti-Semitic, if that is really your cause? If you're as bright as you think you are, can't you frame the debate on your terms? I know your instinctive response to write a point-by-point rebuttal to my post. But what is that going to achieve? (If you must, I'll let you have the last word.) Instead, why not, for example, collect a set of statements by Stimpy, with adequate and fair context, that you think demonstrate his/her anti-Semitic views? P.S. I am by no means endorsing any allegations that anyone is or is not anti-Semitic. But I assume people are willing to stand by what they have written, as long as statements are shown in context.</font> I do not disagree with many of your points, and as you will no doubt see, the only individuals that I am responding to are the very same one's who have been focusing their attacks upon me, and not the real perpetrators of this dust-up. I appreciate your input, but I feel that it is better to show those who are impartial, as you appear to be, that one of the tactics of those who wish to silence you is to label you something that you are not, and, I might add, by doing so, often overreach and thereby violate the rules that they claim to hold so dear. That is what dear Clement has done, above. As for your statement about Stimpy, as I have said before, his statements pale in comparison to those that has prompted this sorry matter, but I will say this, and I know many of you will be shocked by this, but I have been mindful, that he has not tried to perpetuate an attack upon me, as others had. As for your suggestion of my compilation of Stimpy's statements, I have done so repeatedly. You may, if you wish, review the contents of the recently locked thread in this very forum for a review of some of his more problematic posts. Thank you for your attention. D2B |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MatthewClement: MagMile outlines a reasonable, rational approach to address the issues that concern you. I would only add that a public forum is not an appropriate place to post the details. If I were you, I'd write up a detailed history of events as you see them, highlighting your specific grievances. I would present this, in private, to the TalkBoard and to Randy. I would give them adequate time to consider the material, and expect them to take appropriate action. And I would abide by their decision. </font> You have been so blinded by your desire to attack me, that you have lost sight of the entire issue, for if you had read the post that is now locked, you would have seen that I have done exactly that. But, that is not sufficient for the likes of you, obviously. However, I will duplicate my first post to that now locked thread, to show just how reasonable I have been, and that if my message has been lost in all that noise, it is not for my want of trying to silence it, but becaus you and your cohorts, have attempted to paint me as "The Troll." <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">DOC 2 BE Posts: 1977 From: Hoboken, NJ , USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 11-28-2001 09:49 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Randy, I have repeatedly urged you in private e-mails to take actions against those FT'ers who have made ethnic, religious or other slurs that have graced these boards. Despite your assurances that you would promptly do so, you have refrained from taking such action. Although your decison to close Muminah's threads is laudatory, i firmly believe that had you taken the action that you had promised to do, such intolerant posts would never had made it on to the board in the first place. I wonder if you will ever render a decision on the complaint I made against Stimpy, who I believe first opened the floodgates for these offensive posts for his veiled references to Jews on this board. Your decision not to do so had encouraged others like VicOsaki to claim that "Jewsih Doctors" are responsible for the widespread use of circumcision in the US, and Muminah's (or was it Fatima's outburst?) that Hitler was right to torture and eradicate 6 million Jews. Where do YOU draw the line, Randy? I look forward to your response either here or by private e-mail. All other FT'ers are encouraged to voice their opinion as to my request. Thank you. </font> Q.E.D. [This message has been edited by DOC 2 BE (edited 12-03-2001).] |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">No, I am just pointing out the fact that nowhere does Rudi ask the readership to refrain from offensive broad generalizations about ethnic groups, religous intolerance, etc.</font> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Inasmuch as those topics were the type that I have taken issue with herein and their continued posting appear to be fine with him since he does not discourage the readership from posting similar drivel, I have consequently decided to post some factual material that does not make a personal attack on anyone. If, however, others conclude that the generalization is appropriate to the poster, well, I cannot censor anyone's thought process. All that I can do is attempt to enlighten those who do not know anything of the matter, and/or attempt to show the falsity of claims by those who preach religious, ethnic, etc. intolerance. </font> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">As you know, there is a specific ban on individuals posting matters that I have highlighted as offensive, yet no action has ever been taken against those who transgress those rules. I have been told that this customarily is not done, and that such is practically unworkable, anyway. Fine. I, however, will attempt to combat those posts -- in addition to posting travel related material -- as warranted.</font> [Edited to correct bad UBB code] [This message has been edited by dgolds (edited 12-03-2001).] |
OKAY IVE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS DOC 2 BE BUSINESS. SURE DOC 2 BE HAS A RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH BUT FOR IT TO GO ON ON ON ON AND ON, ITS BEYOND! THIS SITE IS NOT A LAW INTERNSHIP, THERE IS NO DEBATE PRACTICES, THERE ARE NO WINNERS OR LOSERS HERE! IF DOC 2 BE CANT DROP IT AND MOVE FORWARD THEN A MUZZLE NEEDS TO BE PUT IN PLACE!
WHEN I STOPPED COUNTING AT 10 SLAMS AGAINST FT THERE IS NO REASON FOR IT! PERIOD! OMG HAVE I READ LIKE OVER 100 POST IN HOW MANY DIFFERENT THREADS! IT ENDS NOW! I WOULD RESPOND TO DOC 2 BE DIRECTLY BUT HIS EMAIL IS SECRET AS ITS NOT POSTED ON HIS ID! MY FELLOW FTS LETS MOVE ON TO BIGGER AND BRIGHTER THINGS |
ernestb -
Perhaps if you weren't yelling ... |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ernestb: OKAY IVE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS DOC 2 BE BUSINESS. SURE DOC 2 BE HAS A RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH BUT FOR IT TO GO ON ON ON ON AND ON, ITS BEYOND! THIS SITE IS NOT A LAW INTERNSHIP, THERE IS NO DEBATE PRACTICES, THERE ARE NO WINNERS OR LOSERS HERE! IF DOC 2 BE CANT DROP IT AND MOVE FORWARD THEN A MUZZLE NEEDS TO BE PUT IN PLACE!</font> DOC 2 BE would drop it, if additional posters would not add to this thread. I feel it incumbent upon me to respond to attacks, nothing more. That you have not done so, nor has Lisa, I feel no need to respond to your posts in the manner I have above. DGolds -- You are absolutely right, but then I explicitly stated that I would be responding in a manner that Rudi had not decried despite my explicitly inquiring why such statements were not, too, circumscribed by his plea. Inasmuch, as FT appears to permit these generalizations, I think that I shall do likewise, at least until such time that others see that these type of statements can be as offensive, if untrue, as so-called "personal attacks." |
I sure do preciate ur correctin me Doc. Oh and thanks for making a comment about ethnic backgrounds again.
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This now completes the research we needed to help prepare the next edition of the Moderators Handbook on personal/flaming attacks. There are some very good examples here and they will serve our future Moderators well in training them what these attacks are, how they start and who some of the people who support this behavior on FlyerTalk are. We thank you for the excellent examples that have been supplied. You are now free to return to FlyerTalk and leave what you posted here behind. Remember, this was only an excercise on what not to do on FlyerTalk and should never be repeated in your regular forums around FlyerTalk. Have a nice day.
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