What is the definition of 'inappropriate'? Are my posts inappropriate? Who decides what is inappropriate or not? Who gets the position of a moderator?

I am not saying that there are no rogue posts. But since the sentiment is overwhelming against them they quickly die a natural death. The best thing to do in such a case is to ignore it.

I was probably on my 'sabbatical' at the time of the post you mention. Surely this issue could have been raised then with respect to that post. Why now?

PG, I brought it up now as it has happened multiple times now.

"But since the sentiment is overwhelming against them they quickly die a natural death."

I highly disagree with this statement. If it were true I would never have started this thread.

Dorian

*

[This message has been edited by FQTV (edited 10-06-2000).]

Call me control freak, but put me down squarely in the pro-moderation camp anyway.

I'd see a rotating volunteer corps that involved quite a large number of members who would get assignments only to fora they didn't regularly post in (nobody wants the odor of partiality, and the job should be a chore, like voting or being a bishop, rather than something to look forward to). The volunteer of the month (or whatever) in an area might, say, have the authority to move posts to a "discard pile" forum, where it could be accessed at will but not replied to. Banishment of a user could be accomplished only by consultation with the professional staff at Webflyer and would virtually never happen except in the case of the occasional terrorist.

My euro on the subject.

I think the issue here is action authority and the concept of impartiality.

I think the issue isn't whether an individual has bias for specific vendors/programs. Most of the flames here aren't about United or Delta or Avis - they're about people and ideas. I think, therefore, it's a question of conflict involving individuals. The folks who might be logical candidates for such a moderator role have, for the most part, well-established relationships with other key participants here. That will make it very difficult should one of those individuals be in a position to be "moderated". I think it opens up another can of worms that could potentially be more problematic than the ones we are trying to address by implementing moderators.

I would anticipate that the FT staff doesn't have the capacity to take this on, and I don't see a better alternative.

Excellent points svpii! A moderator, if effective, is a special person! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

These are very interesting ideas violist, yet who/ how many would be willing to volunteer and do a consistently "good" job! I'd, for one, be quite reticent! And the need for effective guidelines remains at issue, as PG noted.

Yes, FQTV, "This board thrives because (of)the willingness to offer opinions and rebuttals...," but I believe it should always be done in strict moderation, with respect for all others on the boards! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

If we do not moderate ourselves, then perhaps someone is needed to moderate for us! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Again, as PG notes, "What is the definition of 'inappropriate'?" I too have asked about this in the past. Once again if you'll permit me to ask, why not have some detailed rules explicitly stated up front? Why not have a verifiable, enforceable "signed" agreement by all users to abide by these rules to retain participatory rights? Even within a broad self-regulating community of the type Randy & Co surely prefers, this would seemingly be most helpful and quite workable.

-Are multiple handles permitted?
-Is personal criticism permitted?
-Are friendly exchanges like "Thanks" etc., between FT's to be discouraged?
-Is their a broadband problem to be considered so as to limit our posts?
-Is a certain degree of anonymity permitted or actively discouraged?
-Are repeated exchanges between "undisclosed" family members/close friends permitted?
-What is the policy regarding tradgeties and posting them on FT? Is this discouraged?
-What language, specifically, is prohibited?
-Are complaints and ongoing customer service issues with providers appropriate?
-Is it acceptable for FT's to disclose personal information regarding other FT's specifically against their will?

Perhaps a brief statement addressing these concerns would be helpful, IMHO!

Thanks again to all the FT folks for their continued efforts to make the FT boards work so well for ALL of us! It's very much appreciated! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

BTW- There were various mini and ouright flaming wars perhaps during your "sabattical" PG, and two relatively recent cases of intercession by Randy and his staff where offending comments/threads were edited. Vestiges of these intercessions appear here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/003031.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000178.html

It sure would be nice to avoid this kind of "stuff." Thanks! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

The link Doc just posted:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../003031-2.html

Certainly was an interesting read for me as had not been on these boards during that. May I respectfully suggest anyone who has not read it does so. There was NO "moderator" there, but an obvious idiot like this MileageGod quickly got beaten by numbers and went away to haunt some other chatboard/s.

my two cents...

I really dislike all the personal posts, both smarmy nice and attack-dog mean, however, free speech trumps those dislikes with ease, and, more importantly, I don't believe any moderator chosen (and the process of choice would be a 'campaign' just like the national one we are in in the States (even if Randy et al are to make the choice people will be manuevering))could not help but be hampered by bias precisely because his/her 'interest' in the specific topic is so strong (think of at least two definitions of 'interest' here). Also, as previously pointed out, that bias would also play out when confict ocurred between parties where one (or more) were 'tight' with the moderator.

In the end, the price of free discussion is spending some time listening to people you'de rather not. Interestingly, amongst that wreckage there is the occasional tidbit that is worthwhile or instructive.


[This message has been edited by myriad (edited 10-06-2000).]

meine 2 'Rappen' (= 0.02 swiss francs):
[*]I don't have any exprience with other boards and moderators[*]I am very sceptical about introducing moderators - the 'Helvetians' in general don't accept 'kings/dictators' (we even allow our president only one year to stay in that charge!)[*]I would never want such a moderator-'job' myself[*]I would personally dislike the probably inevitable NorthAmerican-'codes'-of-conduct' /'thinkings'/'dominating' generally applied by the (probably) US-moderators on an international board (I like the North Americans, I just don't want everybody else, from the rest of the world, be forced to follw the same patterns. I remeber, probably more than a year ago, flames started because I did write in german a reply to a LH-thread that was only of interest for LH-ff based in Germany/Austria/Switzerland).

georgie,

if i recall correctly...mileagegod did not just go away...i believe it was more of a request from FT staff (though i could be wrong)....so....there WAS a moderator.

rudi,

totally agree with your statement regarding the board becoming less international. if moderators would do this to the board i would be against them.

dorian



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A number of people have left or taken vacations from FlyerTalk in reaction to the occasional run of shouting that we seem to get ourselves into. As I count some of them among my friends, I tend to see that as a problem.

>>Why don't you guys just give a rest to this nonsense about always trying to regulate this board?

A deliciously ironical question, given the next sentence in the post. :-)

>>This board thrives because the willingness to offer opinions and rebuttals is self-determined.

Moderation does not inhibit free speech; the idea is to moderate grossly personal attacks, and enforce board rules, if any exist. It does not mean that "there are going to be a bunch of rules." It means that whatever rules there are would get enforced by the volunteer moderators, who are in a lot better position to stay up to date on what's being posted than our hosts here.

dgolds,

your last paragraph sums up this entire thread....thank you.

dorian

Hmmm. Rudi and Doc both indicate above they would NOT want to be moderators, and they it seems are the two most frequent users of the boards and have been for some time. Perhaps that tells us something if they see no need to jump in and take the baton? Who then gets the job? The occassional MileageGod seems to have been chased away by angry stinging soldier ants. Why change anything?

goldelite: Because good (perhaps albeit thin-skinned) people who make valuable contributions often get disgusted with the board and leave during the occasional conflagration. We lost some during the last flare up. Some people lose patience if such nonsense festers.

This is exactly one of the keys...as dgolds points out. We have lost some VERY valuable people (IMO), possibly due to these odd breakouts in the past 6-8 months.

Onefreeman comes to mind....disappearing from OUR commmunity forever.

Others have 'hinted' @ departing forever. Even I have felt the board become a waste of my time for periods.

I know I am not always the most cordial poster but I believe that I do contribute as much as I can with my (old) real-time-trip-reports and my *A RTW chart. I try to show that I want to keep up my 'end of the bargain'....contributing more than I take. Yes, this is my OWN agreement with the board.

What I want is more consistent harmony than I have experienced in the recent past....that is all.

No, I don't know who would/should be moderators....but that is the 2nd decision by Randy....the first is yes or no.

My late night thoughts....at 1am.

Dorian

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[This message has been edited by Dorian (edited 10-06-2000).]