A Sad Situation -Censorship on the PriceLine Board
Jun 14, 2001, 9:12 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Old Lyme,CT-BDL/PVD UA 2P, Delta SM, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 403
A Sad Situation -Censorship on the PriceLine Board
I regret that it has come to this, but nevertheless, feel that I need to post this for the sake of fairness (or lack thereof)...It's almost impossible to avoid this being a bit of an attack, but what's going on is wrong, plain and simple, and others should at least be informed, so that they can make their own judgments. I am admittedly frustrated, and am turning to FT, where I consider the audience to be fair, if nothing else. So if you want to read further, please do, but if it's not your style, you may wish to reconsider.
Many of you on this board are familiar with another board, administered by a person known as Sheryl, which deals with the experiences of travelers using PriceLine, and similar services. Most of the posts are accounts of the success or failure of bids for flights, rooms or cars, and there is a good deal of ancillary information available. All in all, it's a very helpful board, and I will be the first to admit, has saved me some money over the last year or so. For my part, I have faithfully posted my experiences, and hope that others may benefit.
Which leads to recent events. Several days ago, I made a successful bid on a Hotel room on PL, and posted my account on that board. When I received confirmation of my successful bid on a Hilton room, I noticed that it included a statement indicating that an energy charge might be added to my account. (I also noticed that this was the case at Marriott, and posted to this board my concern: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum63/HTML/000850.html ). Several of you responded with similar experiences, and I got the impression that most agreed that this was a bit of a scam…
Anyway, my post to the PL board was entitled something like : "Hilton Tampa Westshore $40 + $5 Bonus Money + Energy Scam!" . It was a title that reflected my unhappiness with this practice, and I reiterated this fact in the body of the post. Note that my intention was as much to make others aware of the situation as to gripe a bit. I was very surprised the next day to log on and see that my original post title had been edited to remove the "Energy Scam" piece, with no notification, suggestion, comment or otherwise from the Admin. My post was censored, plain and simple.
Well, dear reader, that ticked me off. A bit incensed, I then posted another note to the board, questioning why my post was censored, and why free discussion was being restricted. The response from Sheryl was that this topic was not appropriate for that forum, and was being discussed elsewhere. (it was, but not specifically to this hotel, or even to the state) It was also recommended that I "read the rules" (I am paraphrasing here). That REALLY ticked me off, and triggered another response. In the spirit of my request for clarification, I felt that the tone used was a bit arrogant, and basically told her so, and in a polite and respectful manner that I thought her "rules" (and there are plenty) were draconian. NO bad language, no insults, just old-fashioned free expression of ideas (isn't that what the Internet is supposed to be about?) Her response? - More censorship - the thread was locked, and my post that challenged her to address my concerns was completely removed . A cowardly act, as best. It reminds me of the classic "I'm taking my ball and going home" scenario.
I realize that in the world on Bulletin Boards there may be a time and a place for censorship/sanctions, especially when things get out of hand (as we have recently seen on FT), and I accept that. I generally try to play by the rules. But when someone in a position of "authority" oversteps the bounds of their power to squelch someone who politely disagrees with them, or challenges their actions, that really pushes my buttons. (Same with Talk radio…) I hate censorship.
My reason for posting this, as I said, is to express frustration with this situation. I don't like this person's style, but I can't deal with it on the PL board, because no one has the guts to debate. (Note that I have addressed the issue via private e-mail). Therefore, I will exercise my free will and won't be frequenting that board any longer. Hopefully, I can take a few of you with me as well. Either way, thanks for the Forum.
Many of you on this board are familiar with another board, administered by a person known as Sheryl, which deals with the experiences of travelers using PriceLine, and similar services. Most of the posts are accounts of the success or failure of bids for flights, rooms or cars, and there is a good deal of ancillary information available. All in all, it's a very helpful board, and I will be the first to admit, has saved me some money over the last year or so. For my part, I have faithfully posted my experiences, and hope that others may benefit.
Which leads to recent events. Several days ago, I made a successful bid on a Hotel room on PL, and posted my account on that board. When I received confirmation of my successful bid on a Hilton room, I noticed that it included a statement indicating that an energy charge might be added to my account. (I also noticed that this was the case at Marriott, and posted to this board my concern: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum63/HTML/000850.html ). Several of you responded with similar experiences, and I got the impression that most agreed that this was a bit of a scam…
Anyway, my post to the PL board was entitled something like : "Hilton Tampa Westshore $40 + $5 Bonus Money + Energy Scam!" . It was a title that reflected my unhappiness with this practice, and I reiterated this fact in the body of the post. Note that my intention was as much to make others aware of the situation as to gripe a bit. I was very surprised the next day to log on and see that my original post title had been edited to remove the "Energy Scam" piece, with no notification, suggestion, comment or otherwise from the Admin. My post was censored, plain and simple.
Well, dear reader, that ticked me off. A bit incensed, I then posted another note to the board, questioning why my post was censored, and why free discussion was being restricted. The response from Sheryl was that this topic was not appropriate for that forum, and was being discussed elsewhere. (it was, but not specifically to this hotel, or even to the state) It was also recommended that I "read the rules" (I am paraphrasing here). That REALLY ticked me off, and triggered another response. In the spirit of my request for clarification, I felt that the tone used was a bit arrogant, and basically told her so, and in a polite and respectful manner that I thought her "rules" (and there are plenty) were draconian. NO bad language, no insults, just old-fashioned free expression of ideas (isn't that what the Internet is supposed to be about?) Her response? - More censorship - the thread was locked, and my post that challenged her to address my concerns was completely removed . A cowardly act, as best. It reminds me of the classic "I'm taking my ball and going home" scenario.
I realize that in the world on Bulletin Boards there may be a time and a place for censorship/sanctions, especially when things get out of hand (as we have recently seen on FT), and I accept that. I generally try to play by the rules. But when someone in a position of "authority" oversteps the bounds of their power to squelch someone who politely disagrees with them, or challenges their actions, that really pushes my buttons. (Same with Talk radio…) I hate censorship.
My reason for posting this, as I said, is to express frustration with this situation. I don't like this person's style, but I can't deal with it on the PL board, because no one has the guts to debate. (Note that I have addressed the issue via private e-mail). Therefore, I will exercise my free will and won't be frequenting that board any longer. Hopefully, I can take a few of you with me as well. Either way, thanks for the Forum.
Jun 14, 2001, 9:18 pm
#2
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Canada
Programs: AC SE 2MM, HH Dd, SPG; IC Pl/A; AA; DL
Posts: 14,329
I think that we are only on these various boards by the good graces of our various hosts. If we don't like the rules then I think we should go elsewhere. If we receive generally good value and have to put up with a bit of cutting and pasting then I can live with that.
We have freedom of speech but that doesn't mean you can say whatever you want whenever you want. That said, I do think the censorship was excessive but, hey, it is Sheryl's board.
We have freedom of speech but that doesn't mean you can say whatever you want whenever you want. That said, I do think the censorship was excessive but, hey, it is Sheryl's board.
Jun 14, 2001, 10:01 pm
#3
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Credit Card Award Travel Center, Boise
Posts: 512
In my opinion, you don't have 1st amendment rights of expression on someone else's property -- cyber or otherwise. The owner always has a right to restrict or censor you as they deem appropriate. If someone expressed themselves on my property in a way that I deemed inappropriate, for whatever reason, I would take actions to correct them.
It sounds to me like this person may giving a false impression of what her board is intended for, but to say that she is overstepping the bounds of her power -- I can't agree with that. Her power is absolute.
Don't flame me! I have no idea what that board is, nor have I ever been on Priceline, nor do I know the person who started this thread! Just my opinion!
It sounds to me like this person may giving a false impression of what her board is intended for, but to say that she is overstepping the bounds of her power -- I can't agree with that. Her power is absolute.
Don't flame me! I have no idea what that board is, nor have I ever been on Priceline, nor do I know the person who started this thread! Just my opinion!
Jun 14, 2001, 10:05 pm
#4
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: you can't affordably get there (anywhere) from here (central MT)
Posts: 345
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by BlondeBomber:
If we don't like the rules then I think we should go elsewhere. </font>
If we don't like the rules then I think we should go elsewhere. </font>
It's not a perfect world!
Jun 14, 2001, 10:07 pm
#5
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Dallas
Programs: AA PLT/5MM; AS MVP GLD 75K; DL DM; EK SLV; HHonors DIAM; Marriott GLD
Posts: 4,092
I don't particularly agree with Sheryl's reaction, but (like others here have said) it is her board.
From what I've seen, she does an incredible amount of work and she has saved me a lot of money. Your recourse is to publicize your gripes somewhere else (like here) and/or choose not to participate.
Again, seems kind of heavy handed, but even a casual participant in that website will see that Sheryl is an extremely active moderator.
From what I've seen, she does an incredible amount of work and she has saved me a lot of money. Your recourse is to publicize your gripes somewhere else (like here) and/or choose not to participate.
Again, seems kind of heavy handed, but even a casual participant in that website will see that Sheryl is an extremely active moderator.
Jun 15, 2001, 4:57 am
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Old Lyme,CT-BDL/PVD UA 2P, Delta SM, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 403
fallinasleep:
- that's the point, exactly, and why it's a shame that it had to happen. As a matter of personal policy, (or maybe creeping old age) I refuse to roll over and will push back when someone treats me poorly. It's also "uncool" to hide behind a bunch of rules and delete authority because you feel the need to be in charge. I tried to engage this person elsewhere, they were unwilling to do so. Like I said, my only goal is fair and open debate, not a flame war, and to raise awareness.
I tend to agree with previous posters that the board belongs to the people (who for the most part appreciate the efforts of the Admins). Regardless of the perceived rights of "ownership", the fact is, if you alienate folks in the process, the enterpise will ultimately fail.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">If you don't like what Sheryl did, then don't frequent her board. Talking negatively about her here is uncool.</font>
I tend to agree with previous posters that the board belongs to the people (who for the most part appreciate the efforts of the Admins). Regardless of the perceived rights of "ownership", the fact is, if you alienate folks in the process, the enterpise will ultimately fail.
Jun 15, 2001, 6:49 am
#12
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Homosassa, FL & Ringwood, NJ -UA-G(Lifetime); SPG-Plat (Lifetime)
Posts: 6,120
IMHO, when someone participates in ANY bulletin board, it is incumbent upon her/him to understand the type of bb it is. To me, moderator=censorship. Someone else has the ability to decide what I see and read. While I may not like this, I can work with it so long as I know upfront what the rules are. In some cases, moderators take virtually no active participation, in others, they are way too obtrusive. I place FT in the first category. I have participated in Sheryl's board (and have had dinner with her-a great lady) and I put her almost on a par with Ft for a hands-off policy unless things get out of hand. In the currrent situation, based on all the good she has done, I respectfully suggest cutting her some slack. She did not delete useful information, simply your use of terminology which she considered inappropriate. Its her board, she's the moderator, and if anyone does not like her taking actions like this, then they should simply avoid her board.
Sorry, but I really have no axe to grind and its just my opnion.
Sorry, but I really have no axe to grind and its just my opnion.
Jun 15, 2001, 7:05 am
#13
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA 1K, AA Gold
Posts: 3,640
I do not necessarily like it how Sheryl limits the scope of discussion or locks threads, but I will say it keeps the board much more organized and easy to use.
FlyerTalk is interesting to read, but it's tough to find specific information when you need it. The Priceline board is great, because I can look at uncluttured posts specific to where I am bidding.
So I can see both sides of the story and will say I appreciate Sheryl's efforts to keep the board organized, even if it kills some discussion. But then there's always FlyerTalk for the chatter....
FlyerTalk is interesting to read, but it's tough to find specific information when you need it. The Priceline board is great, because I can look at uncluttured posts specific to where I am bidding.
So I can see both sides of the story and will say I appreciate Sheryl's efforts to keep the board organized, even if it kills some discussion. But then there's always FlyerTalk for the chatter....
Jun 15, 2001, 7:16 am
#14
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: 6E Westbound, 4E Eastbound
Programs: AA EXP & 3MM, Priority Club Plat since 1984
Posts: 6,293
I'm going to side with those who say Cheryl is within her rights to regulate her board as she sees fit.
We have become a nation of "the entitled". I'm not sure where this began, but we suddenly all seem to be entitled to everything, including controlling other peoples property that we are being allowed to use.
Growing up in New Jersey in the early 70's, there was a gas station on Route 1 in Linden that refused to serve you if your hair was too long. If you didn't like it, too bad, it was his gas station. There were plenty of other gas stations around, but all us hippies wanted to use his - as often as possible. It may be stretching, but it seems to be analagous here.
Vote with your feet. But I don't think any of us are "entitled" to what your suggesting.
By the way, read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand - John Gault would not agree with you either. Whoever he was...
[This message has been edited by Thumper (edited 06-15-2001).]
We have become a nation of "the entitled". I'm not sure where this began, but we suddenly all seem to be entitled to everything, including controlling other peoples property that we are being allowed to use.
Growing up in New Jersey in the early 70's, there was a gas station on Route 1 in Linden that refused to serve you if your hair was too long. If you didn't like it, too bad, it was his gas station. There were plenty of other gas stations around, but all us hippies wanted to use his - as often as possible. It may be stretching, but it seems to be analagous here.
Vote with your feet. But I don't think any of us are "entitled" to what your suggesting.
By the way, read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand - John Gault would not agree with you either. Whoever he was...
[This message has been edited by Thumper (edited 06-15-2001).]
Jun 15, 2001, 7:52 am
#15
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Third planet from the Sun
Posts: 7,022
If it is a "public" forum, and the poster has not posted anything obscene, and the post is in the context for the board, it should not be censored. The freedom of speech/press is not an entitlement but a fundamental right to all.
Some argue that the board belongs to a person but if the person who "owns" the board makes the board available to all (some boards only allow select people to join), then the board becomes public domain.
How would you feel if flyertalk started to delete certain phrases out of your posts? If you make the argument that the board has an owner, you could make the argument that everything has an owner---talk about a slippery slope. . .
Some argue that the board belongs to a person but if the person who "owns" the board makes the board available to all (some boards only allow select people to join), then the board becomes public domain.
How would you feel if flyertalk started to delete certain phrases out of your posts? If you make the argument that the board has an owner, you could make the argument that everything has an owner---talk about a slippery slope. . .