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Old Mar 30, 2008 | 8:52 am
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Question Advice on DONE4/5

After tackling a LCIR23 a few years back, my fiance and I have decided to do a full RTW after we get married this year. We're currently based in the UK but will be moving back to the US next summer and were looking at a mid-may 2009 departure. However, as the 20 segment limit appears to be changing this June, we thought we should book something sooner rather than later to take advantage of current rules and fares.
As I understand it, the tickets will be valid from a year past the first flight date, so once we got into July/August, we could simply update the dates and have them reissued.

Currently, we're thinking of:
CPT-LHR-DXB-AMM-MAD-GIG-SCL-IPC-xSCL-EZE-SYD-CHC-AKL-SYD-PEK-HKG-DPS-KIX-BKK-xLHR-NBO

A few considerations:
1) We'll have about 2 - 2.5 months before we should be back in the US for grad school and/or new jobs
2) we're pretty flexible in where we start from and would consider JNB to take advantage of the attractive fares there if it made sense (have plenty of miles to get down there)
3) I can't seem to find SCL-USH flights in LANs schedule, but they're listed on both the OneWorld map and USH websites. We'd like to make it down there (even in June), so if needed, we could cut out GIG and fly SCL-EZE//AEP-USH-AEP//EZE-SYD, but of course this seems to create another segment issue if I've read the rules correctly.
4) We're planning a side trip in China, at the very least to PVG, but likely to a few other spots too. We thought we'd just buy this separately, but if we can integrate it into our ticket, all the better.
5) We chose DPS b/c we wanted a place to unwind and do nothing towards the end of the trip, but would be open to other beachy places in Asia. Looked at Borneo and Langkawi too. Have been to Phuket and Krabi before.
6) At the end of the trip, we need to get back to the US. Again, we assumed we'd have to purchase (with $ or miles), but we'd be open to any option.
7) of course, anyway to maximise miles is always welcome

Thanks for any advice or suggestions!

Last edited by jkirsch; Apr 4, 2008 at 11:31 am Reason: Updated Routing
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Old Mar 30, 2008 | 11:21 pm
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Originally Posted by jkirsch
Currently, we're thinking of:
ARN-LHR-DXB-AMM-MAD-GIG-EZE-SCL-USH-EZE-SYD-CHC-AKL-SYD-PEK-HKG-DPS-KIX-BKK-LHR
I presume you're thinking of starting in ARN because of the lower purchase price there
You have 20 segments, 4 in each of 4 continents and then 4 inter-continental flights - so that's appears OK. But:
  • remember that though you can have 4 flight segments in your continent of orgin (EUR in your case) you can only have 2 stopovers. Perhaps you're thinking of transiting LHR and MAD?
  • Your are required to finish you journey in the country of origin - ie back in Sweden, which means another segment
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Old Mar 30, 2008 | 11:56 pm
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Mm

Fails in mileage monkey. Unsure if a oneworld service exists GIG-EZE. MM does not all the up to date routes in its database
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Old Mar 31, 2008 | 12:03 am
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Use it with "ignore errors" to get around the routing issues; it does have the problem as inferred by pandaperth:

"Rule violated!!! Must start/end in same region/country!"
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Old Mar 31, 2008 | 12:52 am
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Originally Posted by pandaperth
I presume you're thinking of starting in ARN because of the lower purchase price there
You have 20 segments, 4 in each of 4 continents and then 4 inter-continental flights - so that's appears OK. But:
  • remember that though you can have 4 flight segments in your continent of orgin (EUR in your case) you can only have 2 stopovers. Perhaps you're thinking of transiting LHR and MAD?
  • Your are required to finish you journey in the country of origin - ie back in Sweden, which means another segment
Thanks for the pointers.
I did indeed enter it incorrectly - LHR and MAD are just intended as transit points.
We were planning to add an ARN leg at the end, but transit through LHR and get off there.
After reviewing ARN fares vs. JNB/CPT, I think there's a more compelling case to start in South Africa and save ~$2000/person. If this is the case, we'd just substitute CPT for ARN.
The first GIG-EZE leg was a typo on my part. But I still can't figure out whether SCL-USH flights actually exist.
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Old Mar 31, 2008 | 1:10 am
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Originally Posted by jkirsch
Thanks for the pointers.
I did indeed enter it incorrectly - LHR and MAD are just intended as transit points.
We were planning to add an ARN leg at the end, but transit through LHR and get off there.
After reviewing ARN fares vs. JNB/CPT, I think there's a more compelling case to start in South Africa and save ~$2000/person. If this is the case, we'd just substitute CPT for ARN.
The first GIG-EZE leg was a typo on my part. But I still can't figure out whether SCL-USH flights actually exist.
Still invalid, because of 5 segments within the continent of origin.
ARN-xLHR-DXB-xAMM-MAD-.....-xLHR-ARN
1. ARN-LHR
2. LHR-DXB
3. DXB-AMM
4. AMM-MAD
5. LHR-ARN

Badly, you can not purcharse an extra segment within the continet of origin.
So, you need to reconsider your routing in Europe.

Last edited by Wasabi Tofu; Mar 31, 2008 at 1:11 am Reason: typo
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Old Mar 31, 2008 | 1:40 am
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Originally Posted by jkirsch
Currently, we're thinking of:
ARN-LHR(t)-DXB-AMM-MAD(t)-GIG-SCL-USH-EZE-SYD(t)-CHC-AKL-SYD-PEK-HKG-DPS-KIX-BKK-LHR
Firstly - I can't count - your original itinerary had 19 segments (only three in SWP) so you could have added LHR-ARN at the end a thus have a valid intinerary (but note that you'd then have 5 segments in Europe - allowed but at an extra cost) - Seems I'm wrong here - see post by wasabi tofu
With regards to starting in Africa, your suggestion of substituting CPT for ARN works at the beginning, but not at the end of the intinerary:
CPT-LHR(t)-DXB-AMM-MAD(t)-GIG-SCL-USH-EZE-SYD(t)-CHC-AKL-SYD-PEK-HKG-DPS-KIX-BKK-LHR-CPT
The intinerary involves going to Europe twice - this is allowed when one is a transit to/from certain central African countries. Furthermore when the origin is Africa, there is no requirement to return to the country of origin - anywhere in Africa will do as the end point. So, I suggest you substitute NBO for CPT at the end.
Also note that
  • because Europe is no longer the continent of origin, you are not resticted to 2 stopovers there, and so no longer need to transit LHR and MAD
  • also there is no restriction on you stopping in Sydney twice if you want
  • you have one segment left, perhaps it could be used in SthAm to sort out the getting to/from USH, alternatively you could fly AKL-BNE-SYD instead of AKL-SYD
  • it's now a *ONE5 because you've added Africa

Last edited by pandaperth; Mar 31, 2008 at 1:55 am Reason: Clarification
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Old Mar 31, 2008 | 2:03 am
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[QUOTE=pandaperth;9493072]
The intinerary involves going to Europe twice - this is allowed when one is a transit to/from certain central African countries. Furthermore when the origin is Africa, there is no requirement to return to the country of origin - anywhere in Africa will do as the end point. So, I suggest you substitute NBO for CPT at the end.
QUOTE]

Thanks for this... so would I have to substitute LHR-JNB-NBO at the end or simply LHR-NBO to get SA pricing? I don't think we'll end up actually flying the last leg, so it can end anywhere really.
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Old Mar 31, 2008 | 2:24 am
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Re: LHR-NBO

The Europe-Africa segment at the end of the journey has to be to one of the listed central African countries - so the segment has to be LHR-NBO (not LHR-JNB-NBO).
The rule is:
4.(e)Only one intercontinental departure and one intercontinental arrival permitted in each continent except
as follows:
1. Two permitted in North America. when one is a transfer without stopover.
2. Two permitted in Asia when one is a transfer without stopover or on direct single plane service
between the Southwest Pacific and Europe.
3. For travel to/from or via Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania two permitted in Europe
when one is a transfer without stopover between Ghana/Nigeria/Kenya/Uganda/Tanzania and
another continent.
(My emphasis)
Of course, it can be any of the other countries listed - not just Kenya
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Old Mar 31, 2008 | 3:59 am
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RE flights to/from USH

Just checked using the Cathay Pacific downloadable timetable.
Looks like flights in and out of USH are seasonal and have now stopped for the winter :
last flight USH-AEP today @11:50, flights to SCL already stopped
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Old Mar 31, 2008 | 4:27 am
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I had thought it was just an issue of LA not yet publishing domestic schedules, but this makes a bit more sense.
Looks like we'll have to rethink a bit - any other suggestions of places to go in South America? We've done Peru before and wanted to do something outside of cities. Were also looking at Bariloche, though I know the weather's not great that time of year and I think it creates the same EZE//AEP problem.

Also, just to be thick on the South Africa issue - would we be able to fly LHR-NBO as our final leg or have to do LHR-NBO-JNB? If our last leg ended in NBO, could we still buy in South Africa.
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Old Mar 31, 2008 | 5:11 am
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Originally Posted by jkirsch
any other suggestions of places to go in South America?
IPC?

And yes, you can have your last leg ending in NBO.
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Old Mar 31, 2008 | 5:17 am
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Re: Sth Am and LON-NBO

As far as ideas for Sth Am go - on my list of flights to make is SCL-IPC-SCL

My understanding of the rules re Africa is that you DON'T need to return to the country of origin at the end, just to somewhere in the continent of Africa. This is rule 4(c), which states:
Travel may originate at any point for which fares are published and must terminate at the same point, except that origin-destination surface segments are permitted as follows
(a) within the country of origin
(b) within the Middle East
(c) between the United States and Canada
(d) between HKG and China
(e) between Malaysia and SIN
(f) within Africa
So to my mind that means you can start the journey in CPT and end it in say NBO, without returning to Sth Africa - e.g. the last flight can be LHR-NBO.
And furthermore you in fact CANNOT do a LHR-JNB or CPT flight because that would violate the rule about transiting Europe, which can only be to one of the listed central African countires (see my earlier post)

See http://www.oneworld.com/content/libr...rule_sheet.pdf for all the rules

With regards to buying the ticket in South Africa, where you end up has nothing to do with the price you pay for the ticket - that is driven by where you start, in your case CPT.
Do others agree with me? Has anyone actually done it - start in southern Africa or say MRU and end in central Africa?
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Old Mar 31, 2008 | 5:38 am
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I like the idea of IPC - thanks for the suggestion. Also will allow us to stop in GIG or elsewhere on the way to SCL as we don't have the AEP//EZE issue.

I get how Africa works now - assume I just have the count the final NBO-JNB surface segment against the limit, which might put me over the 20 limit. Can always drop the GIG stop.
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Old Mar 31, 2008 | 5:50 am
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Originally Posted by jkirsch
- assume I just have the count the final NBO-JNB surface segment against the limit, which might put me over the 20 limit. Can always drop the GIG stop.
My understanding is that a final surface segment such as this does NOT count against the 20 segment limit. So you won't have to drop anything to make room for it.

Can others confirm this?
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