Questions on DONE5
 

I am trying to take advantage of the current South African Rand exchange rate to book our second 20-segment DONE5 (first one was in 2006).

Last time, the entire trip was confirmed at booking (last flight was < 11 months from booking), but this time, only the first 3 flights are within 11 months of now, so I have a few questions about how some of the booking details work in that case.

1. First flight changes
   Our desired first flight is CPT-LHR, but there is zero D availability from BA for the entire week we want (even on the daylight flight!). JNB-LHR is available that week. There is availability the following week for CPT-LHR. However, I have heard conflicting stories about changing the first flight on a DONE5 after issuing. One is that ANY change to the first segment requires a complete reissue at the current price (this is also what the AA RTW agent told me). The other is first hand experiences from people changing the dates on their MRU-LHR flights (first segment of an AONEx) without a reissue. From what I can see, the rules say:
   
   Code:

   ---

     5N PRIOR TO DEPARTURE                                     
 23N TRAVEL ORIGINATING AREA 2/3:                           
 24N . 1. UNLIMITED CHANGES PERMITTED WITHOUT CHARGE.       
 25N . 2. DATE/TIME AND ONEWORLD CARRIER CHANGES ARE         
 26N .    PERMITTED WITHOUT REISSUE PROVIDED ORIGIN,         
 27N .    DESTINATION, CONNECTING POINTS AND INVENTORY       
 28N .    REMAIN THE SAME.

   ---

   If I can change the date of the first segment without reissue, then I would rather begin CPT-LHR on the "wrong" week to then change it to the right week when D becomes available.
   If it requires a reissue, then I'd rather start JNB-LHR and pay for our way to JNB instead.
   
2. New Routes
   We would like to fly ORD-PEK in mid/late 2009. However, since this route only begins in March 2009, there are no dates available for booking. Can we book an open segment for a route that's only being planned and not yet bookable?
   
3. Tentative Routing
   Our preferred routing right now is:
   CPT-xLHR-MCT-LHR-xLAX-GRU-LIM-UIO-EZE-xDFW-ANC-xDFW-SJO-LAX-MIA-xORD-PEK-NRT-DEL-HKG-JNB
   Issues:
   - ORD-PEK, but ORD-PVG-NRT could work as well.
   - SJO-LAX is seasonal, and not the same season as ANC-DFW which precedes it. This year there is a one-stop SJO-LAX (through MIA), but who knows what will happen next year. Our alternatives are DFW-SAL-LAX, or DFW-SJD-LAX.
   - Any others?
   
4. Open vs. Confirmed segments
   Although only the first 3 segments are bookable on the dates we want them, we could in theory book CPT-xLHR-MCT-LHR-xLAX-GRU-LIM-UIO-EZE-xDFW Jan/Feb 2009 on any available date, rather than booking them "open". Does it make a difference either way?
   I imagine it's not possible to only have DFW-ANC-DFW open and confirm everything else either.
   
5. E-Ticket vs paper ticket
   On such a complex itinerary it's very likely we'll need a reissue, althought on the last 20-segment DONE5 we didn't have any. I would love to be able to issue this as an e-ticket, even with the re-issue fee, but I am a little uncomfortable booking only 16 segments now (with the intention of reissuing to 20), knowing that they're likely to set the limit to 16 sometime in the near future. I worry that if the 20 segment limit is changed to 16, after flying the first 4 segments on an e-ticket, I will have a hard time adding the extra 4 segments in 2009.

Thanks in advance!

I don't think so, because even if it is open AA will still need to make a hidden dummy booking. I haven't tried, however, so I guess it is worth a try. Note that even trying to book a seasonal flight becomes a problem (it can be solved, but it is a hassle) when the schedule is not loaded at the time of booking; to book an ANC flight out of season I had to go through loops, and the supervisor made all kind of "if anything happens you are on your own" type of notes on the PNR.

Will try to answer your points by number.

1. The rules changed a couple of years ago to add lines 24-28 in your star file reference, prior to which it just said "unlimited changes allowed" for tickets obtained in Regions II/III. So I would cite the rule (available on the Oneworld website in a .pdf file) and hang tough on your re-timing.

2. Edited. I had a long-winded version of "don't think so" written but have subsequently become unsure. Don't think so, but asking is free. I DO know they won't put it in a ticket issued today, but getting it added in a re-issue once the route has been inaugurated, maybe.

3. You're probably cruising for a re-issue sooner or later anyway, so I'd pick one of the less desirable but more reliable year-round route alternatives and go with it, then re-do it at re-issue. You can always try to be persuasive however. (This is in reference to DFW-ANC and LAX-SJO seasonal conflicts.) I wouldn't go to SJD but that's a personal preference (I can make big margaritas more cheaply at home.)

4. I haven't had any trouble increasing the total segments to 20 after starting out as an e-ticket, but it's anybody's guess how "smoothly" the transition from 20 > 16 will go. If it were me I'd bite the bullet and have it done as a paper ticket, then have it re-done as an e-ticket once you've burned 4 segments, if they'll let you. Note a paper ticket re-issue by anybody but AA will probably result in a machine-printed ticket, but one that AA may not be able to see an image of in their system.

One thing about open dating is that the tariff people assume every possible stopover point is one, so the full fury of airport taxes etc. is added. Getting them stricken later when a re-issue eliminates the justification for the taxes is rather more rare (but I have had it happen.) Set against future fuel surcharges, though, I'd be happier paying todays taxes and YQs rather than next years. YMMV. Myself, I'd just do dummy dates for the whole thing and avoid the pain later.

If memory serves it's been quite a while since it was possible to have SJO and ANC in the same season; personally I would not gamble on that one.

Yep. Actually, it was kind of weird, because it sort of said yes and no at the same time:

Wow. HUGE thanks to both Viajero and Gardyloo for the great help! ^ ^ ^

After reading your replies and thinking about this a bit more, this is what I think we'll do:

• Resign ourselves to one reissue (hopefully just one).
• Latest bookable date for AA flights today is 31JAN2009. Assuming it takes us a couple of weeks to get everything set, we'll ticket the itinerary with all segments confirmed, which means everything fits in a 30 day span.
• Book itinerary as:
  CPT-xLHR-MCT-LHR-xLAX-GRU-LIM-UIO-EZE-DFW-SEA-DFW-SJO-LAX-MIA-ORD-PVG-NRT-DEL-HKG-JNB
  SEA is just a placeholder for ANC.
• Issue ticket.
• After ticketing continue spreading the dates, confirming space on flights on desired dates.
• Try to change date of CPT-LHR without reissue.
• Decide on SJO or alternatives depending on what's available in 2009.
• Change PVG to PEK.
• After flying the first 4-8 segments, reissue ticket. I am guessing that LAX would be a better place to do this than GRU, LIM, UIO or EZE.

How does that sound?

One final question, can I confirm space in the DFW-ANC-DFW flights (or any other routing changes) when they become bookable, but not do the physical reissue until after the 4th flight?

Thanks again!

Comes out as Valid itinerary!!! - (68090 miles) in Mileage Monkey
Easter Island (IPC) is worth visiting in my opinion (SCl-IPC-SCL)

I fully agree with Gardyloo about open dates at original ticket issue. I really see no reason why leave the dates open as carrier/date changes are FOC in any case.

If issued as paper ticket I'd recommend doing the reissue with the same carrier as originally issued the ticket, if possible. This is especially true for >16 segment hand written tickets but as you're issueing with BA this is likely not the case for you.

AA will not accept a booking for a city pair not in your ticket.

Edit: why not just go for ANC and leave it open? The schedule will be loaded circa November, before you leave, so that would be one less problem to deal with further down the line.

LAX is ok, but standing there in front of LAX's busy premium check-in counter, hoping the agent you get is good, is a little unsettling, not to mention the murderous looks you get from the folks in the queue behind you. :) Pity you are not going to SCL, where AA has one of the best, if not the best true city ticket office in the system: walking distance from most hotels, extremely pleasant agents, OWEs welcome, seats to wait, reissues done with a smile, uncrowded,... what more can one ask for?

Thanks, but we already visited and while it was lovely, we'd rather use our South American flights elsewhere this time.
I am issuing with AA, I had a horrible experience attempting to do it with BA last time. AA even has a ticket agent in Cape Town.

One thing I don't understand about your comment on open segments is... Let's say I book a segment on UIO-EZE, confirm a date in FEB2009 now, but the service is discontinued starting in APR2009, and I really want to fly in MAY2009. In that case having a confirmed segment is absolutely no help to me right?

Also, what happens if I book UIO-EZE as open for now, then in 4 months I end up confirming for a particular date in MAY2009, then in SEP2008 LAN discontinues the service. Am I still protected?This I don't understand. What are the steps one needs to take in order to re-issue an AA issued DONEx then? I thought you would:

1. Make the booking changes with the AA RTW desk.
2. They would reprice (or send to Dublin for re-price).
3. If e-ticket they can take care of it, but paper ticket you need to present the paper ticket at a ticket office and exchange for new paper ticket or e-ticket (which can take HOURS).

Are you saying that steps 1-3 need to be done pretty much at the same time? Otherwise my booking will not match the ticket right?
I would, but it sounded like it was a pain in the rear to get DFW-ANC-DFW as open before they become bookable.

Then again, if they can book a "fake" DFW-ANC segment as open (with the notations that I am all on my own, etc. etc.), it should be the same process to book ORD-PEK as open, since I have no doubt that AA intends to start this route next year.

Sorry about all the questions, but I am very unfamiliar with open tickets. I will try calling the AA RTW desk later today and ask for the agent that helped me last time I was doing it and see how far I get.

Thanks again! ^

It can be a pain, but a) it is not insurmountable and b) the benefits of early booking outweigh the possible hassles (which, if lucky, might not even be).

Virtually, yes. AA will accept your bookings for a non existing ticket but only as part of the reissue process. I got the impression you wanted to book these new city pairs well in advance of the reissue, so that's why I said that it could not be done.

If the service is discontinued and your segment is dated (see below) the protection means that the airline will take you there via another route. In the case of UIO-EZE, for example, it would most probably take your coupon and give you two BPs: UIO-SCL and SCL-EZE.

AFAIK the only way to be fully protected is if your ticket is dated from the start. If you leave a segment open dated at time of issue it does not became automagically protected by virtue of a later booking. This, however, I have not run into, so you should wait for others to confirm/correct.

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that date and time changes are FOC, but a change of carrier on the same route, will incur the change fee and re-issue.

Happy Travels

Nope. Change of date, time and carrier are free.

Edited to add:

As far as I know, a change to the first flight will usually need a reissue, because the ticket validity will change. (As the ticket is valid until 1 year after the first flight). If it doesn't require a reissue, it would be a nice way to create a ticket which will be valid for more than a year. (i.e. buy a ticket starting in a year, and move the first flight to next week. You now have a ticket which is valid for almost 2 years). I very much doubt they would allow that though...

My personal experience is that I have changed the first flight on three rtw tickets starting in area 2/3 all without a reissue. Of course, ymmv.

I don't think this one has been mentioned before but I could be wrong. So what happens with seasonal OWEs, where the price is determined by the date of the first intercontinental flight? I find hard to believe it is just a matter of booking/issuing it with a low season date and then simply change the date to a high season one, with no reissue/reprice... or is it?

I guess I don't really see this. The originally issued ticket will have a one year validity date. Provided I start my rtw before the expiration of this date the this original validity date will no longer have any importance - the maximum stay rule will be all that matters -- Return travel from the last stopover point must commence no later than 12 months after departure. As for your example, I don't see how it would be possible as your first flight would be beyond the one year ticket validity date.

Thanks to everyone for their help on this!

We now have 8 confirmed segments and 8 open segments on hold:

Confirmed:

CPT-xLHR-MCT-LHR-xLAX-GRU-LIM-UIO-EZE-

Open:

-EZE-DFW-ANC-DFW-ORD-PVG-NRT-HKG-JNB

Decided to book 16 segments to be able to do an e-ticket, mostly to make the re-issue easier, since it's 99% certain that no matter what we book, we will need to re-issue. At least keeping DFW-ANC-DFW open, we'll be able to grab space on those flights once they become bookable which. This was not a big deal at all (didn't have to get a supervisor or anything like that).

However, the AA RTW agent was not able to book ORD-PEK as an open segment. She knew that AA has announced the route but could not find any notice with the official start date which apparently would be required to book this segment as open.

Also, could not confirm any EZE-DFW in D towards the end of the schedule (last date with availability is 21JAN2009 which doesn't allow enough time for all the other flights), so left that open.

Hopefully pricing will be back tomorrow and we'll be able to ticket this week. We have family in Cape Town, but from Cheetah_SA's post (many thanks BTW! ^), it looks like we may be able to do everything by phone/fax.

Yeah, my point was that leaving the segments open has no more value than booking some random dates at original issue, this was basically based on the fact that open segments = max. taxes as all possible transits are counted as stopovers no matter what is the reality.

Got it. Fortunately for us, all open segments are stopovers, at least right now. That may change when we re-issue, but at that point nothing will be open.

We contacted the AA GSA in South Africa, and they pretty much told us everything they told Cheetah_SA. They need:

• A copy of the passport/ID of the card holder
• A copy of the front and back of the credit card
• Pricing must be less than 24 hours old.

That last bit was a bit surprising, but I guess understandable given all the currency fluctuations at the moment:We are also reworking the itinerary a bit before issuing. Because we're going to take a break once we hit LHR the second time, I am now trying to have 4 segments at that point, so that we can reissue at that break which would make things a lot easier later on.

First I thought to do either CPT-xLHR-MCT-AMM-LHR or CPT-xLHR-AMM-MCT-LHR, but the AMM-MCT-AMM schedule is just horrible, one flight a week either arriving MCT at 2:45 am (after a stop in Dammam, Saudi Arabia), or a 5.45 am departure from MCT (with a stop in Dammam, Saudi Arabia also).

We had no desire of ever going to Dubai, but given the extensive schedule from both LHR and AMM, we're thinking about doing CPT-xLHR-DXB-AMM-LHR with ground transportation to/from Oman (and maybe just one day in Dubai). We lose a segment in North America or Asia, but get to see Jordan and Oman without the hassle of the MCT-AMM schedule.

Just remember to steam clean your shoes and not to eat sesame seed rolls before you board the LHR-DBX flight.

:D

I think it was poppy seeds ;)

Ah, yes, you are right, poppy seeds; nasty stuff.

After cutting it down to 16 segments to get an e-ticket, this is what I just received from the AA GSA in CPT:I am waiting for the AA Around-The-World Desk to open to see what we should do. While we could have someone collect the tickets in CPT, that defeats the whole purpose of what we're doing.

Are e-tickets with open segments really not possible? Do I need dummy dates on every segment of an e-tickets? If that's the case then I guess it's either paper ticket with DFW-ANC (in which case I might as well go with 20 segments), or e-tickets.

Anyone run into this before?

Thanks!

I haven't, but if all that is needed to get the eTicket you want is a few dummy dates, right or wrong, why not go for it?

Edited to add: I realize there is a possible problem with ANC but, hey, the agent is giving you option 2; I would accept it and put the ball in his court.

By the way, for the benefit of newcomers, I want to correct an error in the agent's response, probably due to haste:

"as long as the routing, class and airline remains the same"

The "airline" part is incorrect.

Didn't think I could do dummy dates for DFW-ANC until the season becomes bookable. AA Around the World desk is looking into this issue right now.

AA RTW Desk says e-ticket possible. I put everyone on a conference call and they advised AA CPT to contact the ticketing helpdesk (in Dublin), but I am not convinced I'll be able to e-ticket this yet...

Response from Dublin:
Sounds like if we want DFW-ANC then it will have to be paper tickets, in which case, I might as well get all 20 segments instead of just 16 just to be sure in case the rules change.

Everyone is now agreeing that because of DFW-ANC is not yet open for booking, this itinerary cannot be issued as an e-ticket.

So our options now:

1. Remove ANC, issue ticket with 16 e-ticket segments, wait until the first 4 segments are flown (sometime in late Jan/early Feb 2009), then add ANC and reissue still as an e-ticket.
2. Leave as a 16 segment, machine printed paper ticket, which will allow us to confirm ANC as soon as it's bookable (Nov 2008?). Advantage of this is that the image of the ticket is in the system which enables ticket offices to see it. However, we still need to physically bring the ticket to an office for re-issue.
3. Book the full 20 segments now, hand written paper ticket. Will take hours to get issued now, will make re-issue fairly painful. However, no worry about possible reduction of xONEx to 16 segments. Small possibility that no reissue is needed.

Are my assumptions correct? If so, I think right now I am leaning towards the first option, just because of the e-tickets.

Any suggestions or comments?

Viajero, was this by any chance done on an e-ticket?

No, it was paper. The reaction was simply based on "if it is not bookable then it is not ticketable". After some "consultations" it was allowed.

How are you communicating with the GSA in Capetown, by phone, fax, e-mail?

Phone and email.

I am very happy to report that e-tickets have been issued for this itinerary.

Thanks everyone for your help.

FWIW, Swissair does the hop from DXB-MCT for next to nix if you wanna book that separately.