Hi guys,

Thanks so much for your efforts on this site. It's so damn helpful! So I'm looking to buy a DONE3 or 4 ex CMB, and I've got a few questions that I haven't been able to find answers for yet.

Any help you can offer on any of these would be hugely appreciated!


* I've seen references to xONE3s only permitting 17 sectors instead of 20 but I see no reference to that in the QF fare rules. Is it true?

* Within Asia I'd obviously prefer flights with proper long-haul J class seating, rather than regional aircraft. On which intra-asian sectors do CX and JL offer long-haul business class configurations?

* In europe I'm very flexible with my destinations. I'm looking for interesting routings that aren't just to or from a OW hub (lon, hel, mad/bcn, bud & amm). Are there any OW flights which stop over in non-hub cities, so I could see somewhere interesting without always flying via finland, spain, hungary, jordan or the UK?

* BMI bought BMED in February. Are BMED flights still valid?

* I don't understand what it means to be permitted 2 stopovers max within my continent of origin "in order to get to or from a gateway". How circuitous may my route to my gateway be? Is there no maximum number of sectors at all, or must I exit the continent as soon as I reach a city which has flights to my next destination? e.g. Can I fly from CMB to BKK, stay for less than 24 hours, fly from BKK to HKG, stay for less than 24 hours, and then fly to NRT for a few days (using my first "stopover"), before leaving the continent via SIN on my way out? (Obviously, I understand that each of these sectors contributes to my overall limit -- the question is simply whether there are sector limits or other routing restrictions on how I choose to "get to my gateway".)

* I�d like to experience LAN but don�t want to add south america as a continent. Do any of the LAN carriers operate any flights within north or central america? If not, there seems to be a LAN flight from MAD-FRA but I can't tell if it's an IB codeshare. Is it? (Incidentally, any opinion from those who've travelled LAN as to which you'd prefer between SYD & AKL: QF regional biz, or LAN?)

* Regarding the Nth American one-transcontinental-sector limit: does it only apply to non-stop flights? I need to fly between the east and west coasts of the US a lot. Could I just fly NYC-DEN-LAX back and forth three times so as to avoid the transcon restriction? (Sure, I'd burn through twice as many sectors, but I have no interest in going anywhere but the coasts anyway.) Are there any other intermediary airports instead of DEN which would work just as well? (If this isn't permitted, is NYC-MEX-LAX?)

* Regarding the new surface sector rule, does anyone yet know for sure whether surface sectors count towards the intra-continental limits too, or only towards the total tally?

* This is a slightly tangential question which probably belongs in the AAdvantage Forum, but someone might be able to help: I�m AA platinum thanks to the challlenge, which I started prior to June 16 2007 and which will therefore expire in February 2008. What is the period within which my new status will be determined: the 2008 calendar year, or the twelve months from June 16 2008? (This is important to me as I'm planning to fly SYD-JFK on December 29th, but I don't wanna lose all those status points 48 hours later!)

Thanks in advance for whatever help you can offer guys! (I'll post my draft itinerary when I've got it... )

Woa! A lot of questions. I will answer the ones I can take a stab at in turn, to the best of my ability and post it up - then come back to answer some more once I have taken on some subsistence!

I will kick off with the point that at the moment Cathay have suspended all flights between CMB and Bkk/Sin/Hkg
and it does not too good about them coming back. There is a flight between CMB and Amman twice a week but it would mean immediately leaving Asia to go to Europe on not the most attractive routing between the continents.


* I've seen references to xONE3s only permitting 17 sectors instead of 20 but I see no reference to that in the QF fare rules. Is it true?

The limit comes about because of the maximum number of flights that you can do per continent (without adding paid segments). Therefore N/A 6 + Asia 4 + Europe 4 = 14 plus Asia to N/A to Europe to Asia (or vv) = 3 = 17.

Almost certainly surface segments can be added up to a total of 20 sectors without losing flown segments (eg CMB - BKK // NRT - HKG - SIN // HKG - CMB = 4 flown segments + 2 surface segment). As the rule is new I cannot be 100% sure that is how it will be put into practice, but when I spoke to AA this is how that agent viewed it.

Therefore, with a XONE4 or above and the new rules, you would now actually lose one possible flight for any surface sector that you choose to use

You can add on paid segments (but not the continent of origin) again up to a total of 20 inc surface sectors (Therefore you could have 17 flights plus 3 paid segments - but usually it is not worth the cost.

* Within Asia I'd obviously prefer flights with proper long-haul J class seating, rather than regional aircraft. On which intra-asian sectors do CX and JL offer long-haul business class configurations?

It depends what you consider "proper" long haul. There are many on this board who know Cathay inside out, but from my limited knowledge Cathay has regional business class on nearly all routes within Asia - both old/comfortable style seats and new style seats.The most preferable out of these is to get upper deck on the 744's and avoid lower deck middle seat!. For the relatively short flights the leg room and seats are comfortable enough, the crews are usually fantastic, although they can have their off-days (or off-crews) and imho superior to various american airlines inter-con business class on all points.

JAL I have never flown business class with, so cannot comment.

* In europe I'm very flexible with my destinations. I'm looking for interesting routings that aren't just to or from a OW hub (lon, hel, mad/bcn, bud & amm). Are there any OW flights which stop over in non-hub cities, so I could see somewhere interesting without always flying via finland, spain, hungary, jordan or the UK?

I always find the best flights in Europe are the longest - a part from anything you get decent business class - LHR-Dubai/Muscat/Cairo etc. Jordanian has probably meant there is much more interesting routings that can be done in the region but I have yet to purchase a new RTW since they formally joined. Remember in Europe club class is going to be crap and always consider that many of these short flights can be purchased for very little money to fly in economy - which in many ways is the same product in the region but a few rows back and not worth wasting segments on.

* I don't understand what it means to be permitted 2 stopovers max within my continent of origin "in order to get to or from a gateway". How circuitous may my route to my gateway be? Is there no maximum number of sectors at all, or must I exit the continent as soon as I reach a city which has flights to my next destination? e.g. Can I fly from CMB to BKK, stay for less than 24 hours, fly from BKK to HKG, stay for less than 24 hours, and then fly to NRT for a few days (using my first "stopover"), before leaving the continent via SIN on my way out? (Obviously, I understand that each of these sectors contributes to my overall limit -- the question is simply whether there are sector limits or other routing restrictions on how I choose to "get to my gateway".)

In reality, it means you are allowed four flights in (this instance) Asia - two of which allow a stopover, two of which have to be a transit. Eg ICN-HKGx-BKK-Europe-NA - NRT - TPEx - ICN would be ok. Usually, the choice of the flights is up to you and it will pass ok.

I seem to remember doing CMB-BKKx - HKG - LHR but with OW you never know if it is a lucky fluke or not. As equally they have been a bit funny about including an extra transit (especially on the way back) if it encourages extra miles - but I never forced the issue at the time.


* Regarding the Nth American one-transcontinental-sector limit: does it only apply to non-stop flights? I need to fly between the east and west coasts of the US a lot. Could I just fly NYC-DEN-LAX back and forth three times so as to avoid the transcon restriction? (Sure, I'd burn through twice as many sectors, but I have no interest in going anywhere but the coasts anyway.) Are there any other intermediary airports instead of DEN which would work just as well? (If this isn't permitted, is NYC-MEX-LAX?)

It applies to flights with one flight number (as this counts as one sector) sometimes these flights do stop but the number remains the same. If you take two flights with two different numbers then you can cross North America as much as you want, as long as it is not between two points as listed in the rules.

NYC-DEN/DFW etc - LAX/SFO etc no problem as often as you want to a maximum of six sectors. NYC-MEX-LAX no problem

* Regarding the new surface sector rule, does anyone yet know for sure whether surface sectors count towards the intra-continental limits too, or only towards the total tally?

I am presuming they won't count to the 4 or 6 limit per continent and as I mentioned above an AA RTW desk agent (FWIW!!) told me they won't but each one will count to the total but it is still in the realm of the unknown.

1) The fare rules allow 20 sectors. However there is no way to include more than 17 free sectors in a xONE3. You can of course buy up to 3 extra sectors, subject to the rules on purchased sectors.

2) AFAIK some (perhaps not all) flights between HKG, NRT, SIN and BKK have longhaul a/c. There may be other routes as well.

3) Perhaps look at the europe destinations served by both CX & BA/AY/IB/RJ

4) BMed flights are only for a short period. When is your travel?

5) You can have the normal allowance of flights within continent of origin, but can only have 2 stopovers.

6) LAN operates MAD-FRA.

7) Only the nonstops count as trans-continental.

One stop direct flights, if they exist (I haven't checked), would also count as transcons.

The former.

The total tally.

Yes sorry.

BOS-ORD-LAX on separate flight numbers are not counted as transcons, BOS-ORD-LAX on a single flight number without stopping over (if they exist) are counted as transcons, as is BOS-LAX nonstop.

I notice that CX are operating a 747 on 1 flight per day ( at the moment) to ICN. Also CKG gets a 333 on some flights.

"in order to" is just the spirit of the rule, not a must. The idea being that if you start your trip from a place far from a gateway you have a reasonable number of segments and stops to reach it, and the same at the end of the trip. However, if you are lucky enough to start the trip from a gateway, you are still free to use the 4 segments and 2 stops as you see fit, within the rest of the rules.

Where are you seeing this? I've plugged several dates into cx.com and cannot see a 747 for HKG-ICN.

Well that is interesting. Did CX drop in a new schedule over the weekend? I swear I saw one 747 a day for next May/June.

Now all I get is the odd 333 on certain days.

Maybe it is just for certain date(s)?

Maybe you saw 777 (which does exist) and misread it as 747?

No I actually went through and attempted to price up an F fare and it let me do it on CX.com.

The reason I was looking is that I am planning a AONE and was suprised to see the F flights showing to ICN (which I wouldn't mind visting).

But I have had a bad head cold the last few days and perhaps I was hallucinating


Just wanted to add that it looks like the once a week (M) 3 class 333 moves to four times a week (M Th F S) from April 08 right through to as far as I can see on EF.