xONEx max. 16 segments (speculation)
 

I've just received an email from AA which is pushing the OW Explorer ticket and their RTW desk. One disturbing aspect is that it says "Prices are in USD and are based on U.S. point of sale/point of origin, exclude taxes & fees and allow a maximum of 16 flight segments." (my emphasis).

Any news/corroboration on whether this is just a mistake, or is another rule change imminent?

I got the same email. I doubt it's a rule change, simply evidence of marketing people's ignorance of the products. The OW link still says 20 flights.

16 flight segments on e-ticket
20 flight segments on hand written ticket (which AA do not like to issue) ??
If the rule does change would be another major devalution of *ONE4, *ONE5 & *ONE6

It would seem logical for OW to reduce the maximum to 16 segments, since that number matches their infrastructure capabilities for ticket production. And afaik the ticket will still give more bang per buck than any competitive offering.

Thus, it's likely to remain at 20.

I think it's only AA/Sabre that has that limitation.

Agreed. 16 is a bit harsh, especially if *A RTW stays at 24. Hopefully it is just someone at AA mixing up the 2 concepts.

I thought AA said no more paper tickets from 2007 onwards? That is prob why they have this restrction.

To actually support the rules of the XONEX there really should be at least 22 segments.

What rule does a 20-segment OWE break?

I think Dave meant coupons, taking into consideration open-jaws, but in that case the number is much higher. How does Star (presumably also on 16-segment e-tickets soon) expect to handle 24-segment trips?

Maybe issue separate tickets and cross reference them? Or is there something I'm not aware of prohibiting this from happening?

If you want to maximise exactly what the rules are saying. Lets say on a DONE4:


4 segments in Asia
4 Segments in SWP
6 Segments in US
4 Segments in Europe

That is 18 sectors already

Then to get from asia to SWP = 1 sector

SWP to US = 1 sector
US to EUR = 1 sector
EUR-Asia = 1 sector


total sectors required = 22.

The 20 segment limit only came in within the last 4-5 years IIRC. Previously there was no overall segment limit, just the restrictions on flight segments in individual continents. Imagine doing MRs before that enhancement. ;)

edited to add: Found a thread detailing the introduction of the 20 segment rule - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185964

I can imagine it, because I did it. This was my first AONE5 ex-ARN, issued in January 2002:

ARN-(BA)-LHR-(BA)-DXB-(BA)-LHR//FRA-(AA)-DFW-(AA)-SCL-(LA)-IPC-(LA)-SCL-(LA)-LAX-(AA)-ORD-(AA-SEA-(AA)-ORD-(AA)- SFO-(AA)-ORD//JFK-(AA)-SFO-(CX)-HKG-(CX)-KIX-(CX)-HKG-(CX)-DPS-(CX)-HKG-(CX)-BKK-(QF)-SYD-(QF)-AYQ-(QF)-PER-(QF)- SYD-(LA)-AKL-(CX)-HKG-(CX)-LHR-(BA)-ARN

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=A...OR=&MAP-STYLE=

Nice! :)

I think the ONE product is still awesome value with the 20 segment limit. Then again I'm only in the midst of issuing my first, a DONE4 - might have a different opinion if I've done a DONE (pardon the pun) before the 20 segment limit.

As far as E-tickets are concerned it'll be a maximum of 16 sectors. If you have a surface sector or arrive into one airport and depart from another, ie JFK/LGA, the ARNK bit counts as one sector !

AA is just preparing for end of 2007/beginning 2008 when all paper tickets will be done away with if e-ticketing is permitted. Which means that everything may be restricted to 16 sectors when you issue a RTW ticket. You may add on as you travel, but I don't know how AA or other oneworld partners will handle this - but I think it will be problematic no matter how simple the airlines want you to look at things.

Pun aside, I never know how to say the fare code when I'm talking to an airline on the phone. I'd like to say something A-WUN-Three, but at least once an agent had no idea what I meant until I spelled it out A-O-N-E-three.

Just wondering is it an IATA requirement to make ALL airlines to be Etix by 2008 (originally wasn't 2006?)

I've given up on that one; most of the time the agent doesn't know what I'm talking about (maybe due to my Spanglish) so I now just say "oneworld explorer, five continent, business class".

The IATA-mandated deadline is Dec 31 2007. They were going to discuss extending the deadline:
http://www.itp.net/news/details.php?id=24035&category=

Who knows whether the extension will really occur.

Looks like the compulsory eticketing is going to cause quite a few problems with interline ticketing and RTW products.

Wouldn't you just be able to have two e-tickets to get enough segments? I'm not familiar enough with the exact systems in booking to know, but I did see that a recent flight I had between AA and BA had two consecutive ticket numbers, one for the AA part and one for the BA part.

Can't AA lean on Sabre to raise the limit from 16? Can't be that difficult, can it?

Programming staff have a habit of bidding vast sums for what seems like a simple change. Generally at least partially justified by the terrifying importance of making sure the change actually works as expected and doesn't somehow bring down the whole system. It's seldom as simple as crossing out a '16' somewhere and substituting a larger number.

As I mentioned on another thread, it seems to me that AA in particular is at a disadvantage when it comes to automation in this regard. And as a subscriber to Sabre, Amadeus and Worldspan, I am gobsmacked at how these mid-20th Century artifacts can still survive in this day and age.

I had to laugh when the talk was that JL and MA's entry into OW was delayed pending updating their computer and res systems. Holy moley, what were they using? Abacus, fingers, toes and Post-its?

This may be a bit redundant for the conversation but the 16 segment limit applies only to future segments on the ticket. I just completed an e-ticketed AA 19 segment DONE4 by adding the flights in half way through, this was something I was going to do anyway but it does mean that you can do a 20 segment e-ticketed AA *ONE, you just need to pay a $120 fee for the extra 4 segments. Yes, sucky and not fair but better than not being able to do them.

I hope the agent knew what s/he was doing. On one occasion AA handed me reissued xONEx tickets that worked fine on AA segments, but when I tried to check in for a flight JFK-HKG, Cathay's computer decreed my ticket to be worthless. Fortunately I had time, and the Cathay agent went off and reissued the ticket (gratis) properly.

Will e-tickets force *ONE* to max. 16 segments from 2008? (merged threads)
 

As many people will know, IATA wants to phase out paper tickets by the end of 2007. As shown in other threads, AA already has a policy of a maximum of 16 segments unless they (or their GSA) can be persuaded to issue a paper ticket. Does anyone know if this 16 segment limit is something set in stone (or silicon) by IATA IT system design?

If it is, will this mean a loss of 4 segments on *ONE* itineraries or is there some way round it, such as issuing two 10 segment e-tickets? (I'm sure I've had back-to-back e-tickets on different airlines under a single reservation code.)

Russ (currently planning a post-retirement 60K+ DONE6 for next year)

Er...no.

I hope that parallel to the compulsory eticketing deadline, they're also thinking of ways to expand the eticket's 'shell'?

Deadline extended
 

The deadline has been put back to 31 May 2008. See here for details.

Personally, I reckon that the 80/20 rule will apply yet again. In April 2007, some 80% of worldwide (IATA) tickets were electronic. Those with loads of IT experience will know that it usually takes 80% of the total effort to cope with the last 20% of cases, as this is where the most intractable issues are to be found. We shall see if even end-2008 can actually be met.

I'll be sure to keep my DONEx handwritten paper tickets as a souvenir. ;)

Thanks for the news and link. Maybe now we'll get a respite from all the "the sky is falling" posts about this subject.

The rules for segments have changed!
 

Hello all,

Am trying to book a LONE6.
My current itinerary is as follows:
syd-ayq, ayq-syd, syd-lax, sjo-mia, mia-aua, aua-jfk, jfk-gig, scl-ipc, ipc-scl, lim-mad, bcn-cai, lgw(lhr?)-rek, rek-lgw(lhr?), lhr-nbo, jnb-mru, mru-jnb, jnb-hkg, hkg-pek, pek-nrt, kix-cns.

However, the travel agent I'm working with in Sydney just emailed saying:

"******Sorry for the short notice********** but this airfare is changing it fare rules at the end of business tomorrow - Friday (Aust time) From Saturdsy the travel between your flights will be considered also as a segment therefore increasing segments - the only way to avoid this is to have the fare ticketed and paid for in full by the end of tomorrow."

Is this true?

Perhaps related to this (timing is about right)?

If surface segments count in the limit of 20, a further worsening of xONEx relative to xRWSTARx. :(

There has been some discussion ([insert link]) that move to 100% e-tickets may force surface segments to be included in the maximum segments (currently worded as flights) rule.

I see nothing on cxagents.com.

But if what you say is true then surely the rule is going to change to "16 segments including surface segments" since that seems to be the limit of the somewhat archaic software that the OneWorld alliance uses (not just "20 segments including surface segments").

If that happens without a round of significant fare reductions then IMO these tickets become pretty much useless for leisure travel.

:eek: :mad:

Just noticed this line in the fare rules from expertflyer:
EDITED TO ADD - Noticed it only when I specified 'QF' as the carrier for the fare search; nothing comes up when I look at the fare rules when entering 'CX' or 'AA.'

Right, and nothing on the Sabre star file re any change. Won't surprise me, though.

Ouch :(

So I guess the next upset will come with OWE transfers between say, JFK and LGA, which on some cases is already considered a segment (for other tickets), will now count for the 20, stupid as it may sound.

Umm. But they will count as from monday though won't they. Even though they are in the same city, there is a need for a void sector which I would believe would count as a segment

Dave

Yes, that's what I meant (there was a typo in my post, now edited): that as from monday I fear same city transfers will count as part of the 20 segments which, if true, will be a significant negative.