BA's new seating policy and it's effects on OW
 

Hopefully enough of us OneWorld flyers lurk or post on the BA forum, but if you have not been keeping up it seems our friends over at BA have had a new seating policy implemented and the results for those of us who are OneWorld flyers rather than BA flyers, your guaranteed not to be too happy after reading this.

The thread on the BA about the new rules can be found here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376368

I feel however this justifies a new thread here on the OW forum as the BA board is merely discussing the new policy from their rather than OW perspective.

I have just gotten off the phone to BA to clarify what their new policy is, but it seems that OneWorld flyers (in particular Emerald and Sapphire members) now are given NO preference when it comes to seating. This means that you have the same access to seats as someone with NO status. In my eyes this effectively means that BA has reneged on one of it's OneWorld benefits. I always understand when the best few seats (e.g. row 64 on a BA744) are only made available for a carrier's own top members, but blocking access to huge numbers of seats just is not fair. Personally I feel that should the rest of the alliance should reciprocate and not provide any preferential seating to BA Gold (Emerald) and Silver (Sapphire) members, but I have to admit that I am now just saying this out of spite! ;)

Could I ask those of you who fly BA as an alliance member passenger to complain to BA by writing a letter to the following address or to your local BA Customer Relations contact:

British Airways Customer Relations
P.O. Box 5619
Sudbury
Suffolk
CO10 2PQ
United Kingdom

It might also be worth sending a complaint via the OneWorld Enquiry Form via the following site:

http://www.oneworld.com/ow/contact/form

Minus lounge and check-in privileges, I am now trying to work out what exactly BA provides me for my continued patronage. I would easily qualify for BA Gold, but for various reasons it's best for me to stick to QF for the time being especially as only QF fly to my home city these days.

FWIW, BA's new seating policy can be found here:

https://www.britishairways.com/trave...y/public/en_gb

Notice the absence of OneWorld in the new policy! :mad:

I wasn't aware that preferential seating was a Oneworld elite benefit. Can someone enlighten me?

It has been a benefit since OneWorld was formed. Most carriers block certain seats, e.g. QF block forward cabins generally to OneWorld elites. Often you can also only pre-reserve if you are a OneWorld elite.

The OneWorld page might enlighten you:

http://www.oneworld.com/ow/ffp/oneworld-status

In practise you really need to be a Sapphire or Emerald to get anything really decent though.

Pre-reserved preferential seating*

*In accordance with the individual policy of the oneworld member airline operating the flight.



You learn something new every day - but they do have the asterisk

Well BA used to do it up until last week although if you read the BA thread you will quickly learn that most people (including BA Exec members) were kicked out of their pre-assigned seats. And from experience AY, CX, QF and IB (yes, even the dreaded IB) offer the benefit.

Are you suggesting it is not worth campaigning against a reduction in services?

I'm not suggesting anything. I've been enlightened- I'm happy.

As a PLT who flew BA quite a bit in 2004-2005 while being based at MAD, I was never once offered or able to pre-reserve a seat. My roommates even worked for BA Spain and used to check up on my reservations.

That being said, BA did seem to recognize OW status when giving op-ups. I just never saw anything in terns of seat selection.

I am in the middle of a DONE5 with several BA segments coming up. Until last week neither me nor my partner could select seats on some BA flights (something about the flights having reached their seat allocation limit), and a lot of seats were blocked on others (upper deck exits for example). After Dec 5, my partner could choose from almost any seat on the seat map while I couldn't choose any (we both have the same status). Turns out my AA frequent flyer in Amadeus was only entered for LA and QF, but not for BA (this shows at the top of the itinerary on checkmytrip.com). Even re-entering the number on BA.com didn't fix it, but a call to BA did.

Now, I can also choose from any seat on the BA seat maps, including those previously blocked.

From my experience, it seems to me like things have improved for oneworld elites.

I haven't either. Is there some trick to reserving seats if you're flying BA on a codeshare from AA?

Definitely not for me. I now have a smaller selection of seats and so has my partner. I'm a QF WP (Emerald) and my partner is an AA EXP. This seems to be the case for bookings we have in J as well as Y although I must admit all are Euro short haul flights.

Maybe you never made yourself aquainted with the "Manage my Booking" function which allows you to select the seat you want to pre-assign yourself. Up until last week BA treated Emeralds with the same seat selection as BA Golds and Sapphires with the same as BA Silvers.

You can access MMB from the following address:

http://www.ba.com/mmb

I have not yet had an experience of a BA op-up. I have had one upgrade but I can assure you it was not an op-up! ;)

Get your Amadeus booking reference (i.e. Amadeus PNR) and plug it into the MMB microsite on the BA website. If you made your booking on AA, you should be able to call them to get your Amadeus PNR.

I have six itineraries that I have booked on aa.com (either just BA flights or BA plus other OW carriers) and MMB accepted the AA PNR for every one. I then note the Amadeus number that pops up, just in case I need it for something else.

YMMV.

When did this new policy take effect? I flew BA last week in CE, didn't bother to select a seat and was assigned an excellent seat by BA's computer. Was this under the old or new system? The web page description suggests that no seat is assigned automatically in the new system.

This is contrary to the information posted by the OP in that thread. It is likely that the BA person you spoke to was unaware of this.

As I posted on BA Forum:

Thanks for posting, but I can assure you that as a OneWorld Elite, we now get nothing. I have now had to re-confirmed.

The issue you were talking about is where seating control get involved to try and help people sit next to each other etc, but that is the only time we might get assistance and knowing BA like I now do, I can guarantee that we will get as little assistance as possible. :mad:

I believe it took effect December 4th or 5th so your flight was before the changes. Again I suggest you read the BA thread to understand better the course of events, taking into account that the BA thread has little information of use to us OneWorld Elites.

For the record, all of us can assign a seat at time of booking or can use the MMB tool to get a seat should we wish to do so later. My bugbear is that before we got an enhanced seat selection but now we get the same as BA Blues. :(

The asterisk is used to take into account that OW carriers all have different aircraft and condfigurations of those aircraft. They also regard some seats are Elite seats (generally forward cabins and certain select seats with better legroom etc) and others as not. The asterisk therefore covers this rather where BA has removed the benefit completely.

Starting to feel more and more that my Star Gold offers better benefits minus the First Class lounges bit. :(

As a OneWorld Emerald or Sapphire member, you still have access to pre-select a seat in advance even if travelling on a discounted fare ( as for BA Gold/Silver ) . This *is* preferential seating. If you are a no status passenger travelling on a D ticket (for example), you only get access to select seats at time of check in, whilst a OW Sapphire/Emerald member gets to pre-select from a wider range of seats than before.

Dave

Dave, while this was advertised with the initial announcements some weeks ago, it seems Traveloguy is unable to do so as a QF elite.That being the case; it's contrary to what was originally published when this was announced back 3 weeks ago: New seating policy ...:

Actually, I don't see anything in Traveloguy's post to indicate that he had any problems with a specific reservation. I had a BA reservation for someone with an AA platinum number in it on a discount business fare basis and was able to get him 1A in Club Europe after this change was implemented

Dave

I believe he was looking at his "seatmaps" online and found it quite a Blue perspective.

Later on in the same BA fumum thread he posts Here:It seems to me that many at BA don't really know what is going on there. That thread starts with a post seemingly a synopsis an BA memo/announcement. The implication was that oneWORLD elites would have access as I posted here earlier.

However it appear that this morning it was rewritten and refers to this post. :confused:

Yes, I added a caveat to the top of original post yesterday (which dates back to Dec 2004). Since the introduction of BA's new seating policy its largely a historical memo now and thus any content presently quoted from the OP is largely out of context. The commentary relevant to the new policy begins from post 90.

Preferred seating was never offered consistently across OW. CX are very generous, but try getting an exit row out of AA with a BA Gold card!

MMB is recognising OW Emerald if associated with the booking, though only for long haul segments. However, for any short haul segments, the first three rows on the A/C side will show as blocked out (rather than occupied).

It's definately down to a software glitch, as for the first couple of days after the new policy was introduced, I was unable to select from the first few rows on any booking. From yesterday, I was able to move both of us back to 1A/K - the seats we'd originally reserved - on long haul segments.

So the remaining bug applies only to shorthaul segments, hopefully BA's IT wizards will iron this out soon.

Traveloguy, I'd take what you were told by BA's call centre with a pinch of salt. So many times I've put them on the spot with questions which have to be referred to a supervisor and my experience has been what they don't know, they make up.

It'll be interesting to see if your letter to Waterworld clarifies the situation. I'm perfectly willing to eat my words, but all I can say is that for all of my upcoming bookings, preferential seating has opened up for long haul segments. I hope that BA works on the short haul bit.

Getting an exit row with any card but the operating carrier's own is difficult. All other seats however are generally up for grabs with anyone who has an Emerald card.

Again I see this as one of the key differentiating factors between OneWorld and it's competitors.

Having said that, LX seem to always be good at getting me the seats I want using my BD card so no complaints there either.

You are indeed correct. The seat maps are the same as would be presented to any Blue BAEC member, i.e. first few AC rows on shorthaul blocked in J, and first 5-6 rows of Y also blocked (yet unoccupied according to Experflyer and KVS).

virtualtroy could be right in that the problem has been fixed for long haul, however the only booking I have with a BA flight number in long haul is a codeshare operated by QF and that is in F. Needless to say, that is not going to help us work out what I have and what I dont have access to. I have plenty of up and coming Euro flights however and my experience with the seat maps is based on those bookings (which are in a mixture of J and Y).

From my experience, the issue is not just confined to QF WPs but is also experienced by AA EXPs. I can't speak for the rest of OW, but suspect all other OW Emeralds would have the same for Euro short haul.

I have both long haul and short haul BA flights booked (sapphire) and am able to choose 747 upperdeck exit row (62A on HKG-LHR for example, which I was NOT able to before) and intra-Europe J and Y seats (which I was not before able to on the Y flight, however, on the A320 I'm on FCO-LHR in Y, can't choose exit row nor any of the first 10 or so rows...anything in front of the exit row other than the row immediately in front). So, the policy has certainly opened things up for me.

Good news - looks like overnight OW status issues have been resolved ^ .

Yesterday (as a QF WP/Emerald) I could not select a seat in the first 6 rows of Y (UK-Europe flight), this morning I was able to select any seat on the plane.^

I thus now love the new BA seating policy !!! ;)

No joy for this OW Emerald (AA). :td:

Not yet for CE flights, first 3 or 4 rows on A/C side still blocked out.

Isn't BA pissing off a few people!

Here was I thinking that my CE seats were nice and safe (having A & C seats for all my upcoming flights in April) - well it was nice and safe last night, but this morning I find that A & C had all been changed to E & F seats :mad: :mad: :mad: .

Went to BA's MMB and find the whole cabin is empty except for our seats and the first two (on the 733) or three (on the 734) rows of A& C seem blocked out. I was able to move my E & F seats back to the back row in A & C but if the 734 is subbed by a 733, we'll be stuffed.

At least my 64J&K on the longhaul ex LHR are still OK, but I'm not confident (or happy).

Are BA still calling themselves the World's Favourite Airline"? Bring on the new AA Business seats!

Other than some teething issues, as an OW Emerald I like the new policy. More seats to choose from and less people pre-selecting seems like a win to me. If only they could have implemented it without causing problems to existing reservations

Dave

Teething issues?

Well as I can't access anything vaguely decent I have to say I am not happy with the new policy. Whether it is an operation issue or a technical issue, I don't care as long as BA fix it.

It might be working for you due to your long haul flights, but short haul it su^&s! Sorry to be blunt, but it is true.

Personally I have never had a problem selecting the seats I have wanted as long as they have been free so I don't see what the new seating policy has done for me. In fact I think it is going to cause more problems overall especially for people travelling on different PNRs as they can't TCP etc.

At the very least I want to see BA restore our benefits for seating selection and then I will be partially happy until I am travelling with friends on multiple PNRs.

I also can select from all seats in CE other than 1AC and 2AC , so a minor loss from before (though maybe this is a temporary issue and these seats will start being available). The policy seems to be generally beneficial for those with with Sapphire and Emerald status.

If travelling with a group of people I wouldnt expect to be able to enable them all to have the benefits of my status , though I think that not allowing 1 companion is a little mean

Dave

Well I cannot access 1AC, 2AC, 3AC & 1D. Before I had access to all these seats. I should add that in Y I cannot access anything in front of row 10 (i.e. Rows 5-9 are out on either side of the aircraft. Normally sitting in Y I would 90% of the time get row 5 or 6.

I therefore have access to exactly the same seats as a BA Blue so personally I do see this as a loss as before I had access to all these seats.

Dave, IMHO you seem quite happy for airlines to take away benefits and not complain. Personally I feel that this is yet another "death by 1000 cuts".

If BA seems unable to provide me with access to all seats, then I will where possible shift my business elsewhere.

I get that impression, just from reading the thread (no personal experience with the new system yet), that Dave and others are able to select seats that are not available to you. If they are not experiencing the same problems you have there seems to be little reason for them to complain. Now, why some elites are able to select seat X, and you are not, is something I don't know, but it looks to me like a temporary (I hope) glitch.

No it seems virtualtroy is having the same problem. Dave also seems to be unable to select 1AC & 2AC so whilst he might not be concerned, I still see it has a backward step.

The easiest way to test a booking and to tell whether you have access to more than base (i.e. Blue) member seats is to use a tool such as Expert Flyer or KVS which shows which seats are blocked etc. As the KVS tool has no status when it interrogates the GDS whereas the BA MMB tool applies the status to the seat map, one can compare the output between the two.

In my case, whilst BA MMB tool confirms it can see me as an Emerald as it shows me as having First Class lounge access, I cannot access any of the special BAEC Silver or Gold seats.

If using KVS use the WorldSpan text seat map as that actually works! ;)

Considering your OW status is not conferring benefits on short haul routes, if your travelling with non-status pax, there won't be a problem! ;)