Why are there no OW planes?
 

I'm just wondering why there are no OW livery planes like *A has?

Would you want to put the dreadful OW logo on the tail of your plane? ;)

When OW finally get their act together to design a decent logo, than may this will become a realisting option.

The *A planes really do look good though. I don't think any other Alliance has this, not even Sky Team.

*A is the only alliance with a decent logo. Even Scary's logo is weak.

Lets hope this changes soon.

I dont like the *A planes. They remind me of those trucks that drive around the city with no particular purpose except for the billboard they have stuck on them....The day they replace the flying kangaroo with that purple beach ball on the tail, is the day I start flying *A.

Is this a requirement of airlines joining *A to have a *A logo plane???

Yes, from what I understand it is contractual for a number of aircraft from each airline to be done in the *A logo.

I don't think the "beach ball' is that big of an issue since SQ uses their logo on the tails of *A planes. The *A terms must allow for this.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1032118/M/

Here's a OW mockup(It's not that good)

EI in OW livery

Actually, I seem to recall that SQ held out for as long as possible before doing a plane in *A colors, and that not painting the tailfin with the *A logo is in fact a breach of the *A rules. Can't say I blame them for trying to hold out...

It is also the reason that SQ don't participate in certain *A activities etc. Remember how the status match the year before last did not include SQ?

Sometimes I think SQ are part of *A simple because they feel they have to belong to an alliance rather than because they want to be. In may respects, they are a bit like the UK within the EU. Part of it but at the same time not wanting to be really part of it. :D

Who wants to waste cash painting a stupid logo?

Very true!

This is so true: just look at the many FF tiers (PPS I mean) accessible only to those who fly on SQ metal.... and their 'on-the-side' tie-ups with non-Star airlines like Virgin Atlantic

Wouldn't surprise me to see them take a stronger role in Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Blue, and maybe a US domestic carrier,and slip out of Star altogether

Now, back on topic :D

According to a press release from SAA when it recently joined *A, members are required to put at least 3% of their fleet into *A livery. SAA has done up 2 craft: an A340 and a B737.

Isn't Branson in the process of setting up Virgin USA? If so, between the Virgin Airline Brands (Nigeria, Blue, Atlantic and USA) and SQ, they pretty much have all the world covered. All they now need is to set up a South American carrier and SQ can exit Star and form a new 'alliance' with the Virgin group.

Quite right, I had forgotten that!

IIRC, the only difference is that Virgin Blue and Virgin America are LLC (no FFtiers, no C or F...), unlike Virgin Atlantic

But where there's a will there's a way!

It is a funny combination though: ultra-conservative SQ with Branson's sexy image :D!

See discussion and photos etc of the various manifestations of the *A paint jobs here - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showp...26&postcount=8

But it caused some probs. for some carriers when implemented, not least AC (back in '98) for whom doing so was potentially against Canadian law, requiring in the end for the Canadian Transport Agency to "exempt Air Canada from the application of paragraph 18(c) of the ATR [that states "the licensee shall not operate an international air service, or represent by advertisement or otherwise the licensee operating such air service, under a name other than that specified in the licence"] - to permit the operation of one A340 aircraft bearing the livery of Star Alliance" - http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/rulings-de...98-A-250_e.html

Already Virgin Blue (DJ) have admitted that it is time to set up a proper J class. In addition to this they also have their Blue Room lounges so I am not sure you can call DJ a LCC anymore.

I will bet that within 24 months you will see tiers and a J class on DJ. I would also not be surprised if SQ takes in interest in purchasing a stake on DJ now that the Patrick Corp has been taken over by Toll Holdings.

I flew into CPT a couple of weeks before SAA joined *A and saw what I thought was a 744 (although I may have been mistaken and it's the aforementioned 340) decked out in full Star regalia, quite impressive.

If this was to happen it would not surprise me if Emirates came on board. They seem be getting closer with Virgin Blue. I for one would like to see this happen if they got a decent South American carrier on board.

I like the designs with all of the different logos on the plane. Nice idea!

I agree that EK and DJ seem to be getting closer-- but it also seems to me that EK and SQ are such clear strategic competitors that a tie-up involving them both is inconceivable...

Yep, they sure are. And seeing as SQ owns the Virgin name I'm not sure how close they will let them get. I'm sure in the background *A is desperatley trying to get DJ on board, to fill that big hole in their network

I'm sure you would never confuse a 340 with a 747. ;) And SAA's quite capable of errors in a press release.

On the other hand I don't think their 747's are on any CPT routes at present. Could it have been an LH craft?

:eek:
I didn't know that! I had presumed that Branson and the Virgin Group retained the name rights
:eek:

SQ definitely does not own the rights to the Virgin name. That is actually how Branson makes his money is by licensing it out. It is also the reason that DJ could not start International flights using the Virgin Blue name due to licensing issues. Remember that Branson does not actually own many of the brands that bear his company name these days - he simply sets up businesses, markets them well and then flogs them off and retains rights to the name. Businesses buying them have rights to use his name as long as royalties are paid and certain other conditions are met.

Also I think there is more spin than fact in that *A want DJ as part of their alliance. DJ whilst getting close to being a FSC is still not quite there and until that happens I doubt anyone will talk to them. Codeshares with UA does not count and neither do Frequent Flyer Programme tieups with EK et al. I think the ownership links between companies is more important!

EK's has a part stake in UL and as EK sees itself becoming the new SQ, I can't see those two deciding to get into bed with each other.

Much more likely. :)

It could have been an LH aircraft, although it certainly had SAA plastered all over it. Perhaps CPT is where they do their plane painting?

This one could be solved by going to kiddiestalkingaboutaeroplanes.net ;)

edit:

Looking at the above website, only an A346 and a B738 appear in *A livery. Feel free to take a peak.

If I'm not mistaken it was SQ not Branson who said they could not use the Virgin name on International routes??? I know that SQ don't own the Virgin name I think I was abit unclear about that, but as far as the Virgin name on airlines I thought SQ had a fairly big say in it given their ownership in VS

No, the Virgin Group says who can use the Virgin brand. SQ only own half of VS which does not mean they state who can use the Virgin brand etc. That is very much Branson's baby and in effect why he is worth as much as he is.

so if Branson got the s$%ts with SQ he could theorectially start another VS and fly on the same routes as VS does now...

Theoretically, although I suspect SQ would have put in their contract a clause prohibiting him from competing with directly with them whilst the two are in partnership. There may of course be a sunset clause, but I think we are perhaps speculating too much now (in true OT FT style! ). Having said that, I suspect there could quite equally be a sunset clause in regards to the use of the Virgin brand.

SQ only have part ownership of VS and I don't believe this extends to any of his other airline adventures.

I also can't see Branson getting out of VS and remember he still owns the 51% controlling share. When he got rid of most of his assets over recent years, VS has remained under his control. But there are countless examples where he has sold off companies and given them rights to continue using the Virgin brand with a royalties fee attached.

How do you figure this? Every *A FFP has partnerships with other airlines, sometimes even airlines in competing alliances.

Many (perhaps not all) *A FFPs have their own top tier status that is available only to those who travel the most on their own metal - eg LH HON Circle, UA Global Services, NZ Gold Elite, etc.

Isn't UA GS invite only, i.e. BA Premier, QF CL etc?

I find it very hard to believe that Branson has the effective ability to sell out of VS and start his own rival Virgin Atlantic and SQ is impotent in preventing it from happening. As an example Branson decides he wants his airline to start flying LHR-SIN, whats to stop him going out buying a plane and giving it all the Virgin hoopla and competing with SQ. It seems a very poor way to run a business when your biggest asset, your brand, is under the complete control of someone other than the company itself, even if he is a majority shareholder. I would certainly like to find out what the arrangement is though.

Very true. Branson does own the rights to the Virgin name. As stated most of Virgin businesses pay a royalty to use the name but Branson himself has no input in running the companies. Virgin Management owns the rights to the Virgin Brand and Virgin Atlantic is still part owned by Richard.

VS is Branson’s Baby! He had to sell Virgin Records to keep VS afloat during the "Dirty Tricks" campaign by BA. I am 90% sure Branson still holds the balance of power with VS. It would be a huge move for Branson to sell out of VS and I dont see that happening

SQ own 49% of VS, So their must be some sort of contract that says they cant fly competing routes with SQ, although they have a code-share with SQ. I'm not suggesting Branson sells out of VS I am saying though that their is nothing to prevent Branson lending the Virgin name to another airline that could fly competing routes to SQ, and if that is the case then it is fairly poor due diligence on SQ's part.

You don’t give the lawyers of SQ much credit! I am sure there would be a signed contract stating that Branson could not sell up and start a competing carrier. Also I very much doubt Branson selling up his major Virgin assets and his favorite asset at that to start up a carrier competing against SQ. Would it last any longer than OZJET? I doubt it, but we will never know as this will never happen :p

Which is the reason why I said originally that SQ must have some say in the Virgin brand when it comes to airlines.

I didnt say Branson needed to sell his stake in VS I just said he could start a rival airline that competes under the Virgin brand on SQ routes, which according to traveloguy's original statement would be quite reasonable given that he controls the brand Virgin.