circle pacific - start in china ?
#1
Original Poster
Original Member




Join Date: May 1998
Location: HKG
Programs: BA GGL, CX DM, AA LT GO, Marriott LT Titanium, Shangri-La DM, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton DM
Posts: 2,030
circle pacific - start in china ?
I think the answer is probably "no" but just trying to see if there's a slight hope...
China does not seem to be on the list of the allowed originating/terminating countries for the Circle Pacific fare (but Hong Kong is), and yet there's this clause in the rule:
"2. ORIGIN-DESTINATION SURFACE SEGMENT PERMITTED BETWEEN HKG AND CHINA"
which is listed as an exception to
"TRAVEL MAY ORIGINATE AT ANY POINT FOR WHICH A FARE IS PUBLISHED AND MUST TERMINATE AT THE SAME POINT OR ANY POINT IN THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN. IN NO EVENT MAY TRAVEL CONTINUE BEYOND THE ORIGINAL POINT OF ORIGIN."
I thought about 2 possibilities:
- starting in HKG but ending in PVG/PEK
- starting in PVG/PEK but ending in HKG
since China isn't listed as one of the originating/terminating countries permitted, I cannot do either of this, right ? although there's that exception clause listed there, that allows HKG/China origin/destination surface segment?
(starting PVG/PEK and ending in PVG/PEK probably is a definite no, because China isn't listed as an originating/terminating country and the exception clause won't apply to this as well)
or did they just forget to take away the exception clause when they copied and pasted the rule from oneworld explorer to circle pacific ?
another side question, on surface segment:
- in general does the miles of surface segment counts towards the total mileage allowed ? e.g. BKK-SYD-SFO-HKG-PEK/HKG-BKK...does the mileage of PEK-HKG got included in the total ?
- how about for origin/destination surface segment ? does it count too in this case ?
thanks a lot !!
China does not seem to be on the list of the allowed originating/terminating countries for the Circle Pacific fare (but Hong Kong is), and yet there's this clause in the rule:
"2. ORIGIN-DESTINATION SURFACE SEGMENT PERMITTED BETWEEN HKG AND CHINA"
which is listed as an exception to
"TRAVEL MAY ORIGINATE AT ANY POINT FOR WHICH A FARE IS PUBLISHED AND MUST TERMINATE AT THE SAME POINT OR ANY POINT IN THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN. IN NO EVENT MAY TRAVEL CONTINUE BEYOND THE ORIGINAL POINT OF ORIGIN."
I thought about 2 possibilities:
- starting in HKG but ending in PVG/PEK
- starting in PVG/PEK but ending in HKG
since China isn't listed as one of the originating/terminating countries permitted, I cannot do either of this, right ? although there's that exception clause listed there, that allows HKG/China origin/destination surface segment?
(starting PVG/PEK and ending in PVG/PEK probably is a definite no, because China isn't listed as an originating/terminating country and the exception clause won't apply to this as well)
or did they just forget to take away the exception clause when they copied and pasted the rule from oneworld explorer to circle pacific ?
another side question, on surface segment:
- in general does the miles of surface segment counts towards the total mileage allowed ? e.g. BKK-SYD-SFO-HKG-PEK/HKG-BKK...does the mileage of PEK-HKG got included in the total ?
- how about for origin/destination surface segment ? does it count too in this case ?
thanks a lot !!
#2




Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Circle City
Posts: 3,568
Not in order (some you asked, some not).
1) Are you reading the rules right? I believe so.
2) Why are they like this? I think it's a throwback to the days before AA had the PVG-ORD route and CX had the HKG-PEK route. My guess is that the rulemakers just didn't see the discrepancy with the current version.
3) Can I start in HKG and end in PVG/PEK? Notwithstanding the other problems, yes, as long as you either use AA's service to PVG or QF's service to PVG or PEK.
4) Can I start in PVG/PEK and end in HKG? It appears there are no fares ex-China, assuming the rules and fares on Usermark's site are current.
5) How are the airlines going to deal with this? You be sure to let us know how it turns out.
6) Is there a drawback on starting in Hong Kong? You cannot go through your point of origin, so the opportunities in Asia are slim to none. You would have to utilize TPE as the transfer point.
7) Are surface miles calculated? Yes.
8) Are origin/destination surface miles calculated? They shouldn't be. I don't believe it's "surface travel" at that point since the fare legitimately ended at the destination. But I get a feeling that different airlines would give different answers.
1) Are you reading the rules right? I believe so.
2) Why are they like this? I think it's a throwback to the days before AA had the PVG-ORD route and CX had the HKG-PEK route. My guess is that the rulemakers just didn't see the discrepancy with the current version.
3) Can I start in HKG and end in PVG/PEK? Notwithstanding the other problems, yes, as long as you either use AA's service to PVG or QF's service to PVG or PEK.
4) Can I start in PVG/PEK and end in HKG? It appears there are no fares ex-China, assuming the rules and fares on Usermark's site are current.
5) How are the airlines going to deal with this? You be sure to let us know how it turns out.

6) Is there a drawback on starting in Hong Kong? You cannot go through your point of origin, so the opportunities in Asia are slim to none. You would have to utilize TPE as the transfer point.
7) Are surface miles calculated? Yes.
8) Are origin/destination surface miles calculated? They shouldn't be. I don't believe it's "surface travel" at that point since the fare legitimately ended at the destination. But I get a feeling that different airlines would give different answers.
Last edited by Darren; Apr 27, 2006 at 4:14 am Reason: to correct erroneous info
#3
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by Darren
3) Can I start in HKG and end in PVG/PEK? Notwithstanding the other problems, you cannot start in Hong Kong and end in Beijing. The only valid carrier to Beijing is Cathay. If you begin in Hong Kong, you need to go through Hong Kong to get to Beijing and you cannot go through the point of origin. Again, notwithstanding the other issue, you should be able to start in HKG and end in PVG as long as you use AA's service from Chicago on the return.
#4




Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Circle City
Posts: 3,568
Originally Posted by cpShawnie
This is incorrect. Again, notwithstanding the other issues, the OP could travel "clockwise" around the pacific, from HKG to Nth America to Australia to China. QF flies to both PVG and PEK.

