oneworld lounge admission small print re guests
Jan 1, 2024 | 3:03 pm
#1
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Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: LON
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oneworld lounge admission small print re guests
https://www.oneworld.com/airport-lounges says:
Who is the "eligible customer" here? Is it the Emerald/Sapphire/First passenger? Or the guest?
It also says:
What is this trying to say? Firsts can only guest someone at their origin aiport, not a transit airport?
Emerald and Sapphire members may invite one guest to join them in the lounge. The guest must also be travelling on a flight operated and marketed by a oneworld carrier. You must be prepared to show your boarding pass and frequent flyer membership card, with oneworld Emerald or Sapphire tier status, to access a lounge. Access is available on the day of travel (or before 06:00am the following day), at the airport from which the oneworld flight on which the eligible customer is travelling departs.
First Class passengers may invite one guest to join them in the lounge. The guest must also be travelling on a flight operated and marketed by a oneworld airline. Access is available on the day of travel (or before 06:00am the following day), at the airport from which the oneworld flight on which the eligible customer is travelling departs.
First Class passengers may invite one guest to join them in the lounge. The guest must also be travelling on a flight operated and marketed by a oneworld airline. Access is available on the day of travel (or before 06:00am the following day), at the airport from which the oneworld flight on which the eligible customer is travelling departs.
It also says:
Connecting between oneworld marketed and operated flights: First and Business Class customers connecting on the same day of travel, or before 06:00am the following day, can access the lounge when travelling between an international long haul (a oneworld international long haul flight is defined as an international flight marketed and operated by any oneworld carrier with a scheduled flight time longer than 5 hours) and an international short haul or domestic flight (and vice-versa).
Lounge access will be determined on the international long haul ticketed flight (either First of Business Class) regardless of the ticketed class of travel on the international short haul or domestic flight. You must be prepared to show your boarding pass or itinerary showing travel in First or Business class on the international long haul flight, in order to access the lounge before your international short haul or domestic flight.
Lounge access will be determined on the international long haul ticketed flight (either First of Business Class) regardless of the ticketed class of travel on the international short haul or domestic flight. You must be prepared to show your boarding pass or itinerary showing travel in First or Business class on the international long haul flight, in order to access the lounge before your international short haul or domestic flight.
Jan 2, 2024 | 2:55 am
#2
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 670
"eligible customer" is the Emerald/Sapphire/First passenger.
The second extract is simply identifying the circumstances under which a First/Business class customer may access the First/Business lounge before a domestic or short-haul Economy flight directly connecting to a long haul First/Business flight. It says nothing about guesting, which is defined in the first extract.
Note that guests must enter and leave the lounge with the "eligible customer".
The second extract is simply identifying the circumstances under which a First/Business class customer may access the First/Business lounge before a domestic or short-haul Economy flight directly connecting to a long haul First/Business flight. It says nothing about guesting, which is defined in the first extract.
Note that guests must enter and leave the lounge with the "eligible customer".
Jan 2, 2024 | 5:39 am
#3
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"eligible customer" is the Emerald/Sapphire/First passenger.
The second extract is simply identifying the circumstances under which a First/Business class customer may access the First/Business lounge before a domestic or short-haul Economy flight directly connecting to a long haul First/Business flight. It says nothing about guesting, which is defined in the first extract.
The second extract is simply identifying the circumstances under which a First/Business class customer may access the First/Business lounge before a domestic or short-haul Economy flight directly connecting to a long haul First/Business flight. It says nothing about guesting, which is defined in the first extract.
So is it a correct and complete statement to say:
You may bring a guest into the lounge (first-class, where available) if all of the following conditions are met:
- You are travelling with oneworld (see below for various corner cases)
- You are travelling in or connecting to/from First Class (see below for various corner cases)
- You are travelling from the airport (i.e. origin or transit; not arriving at your final destination)
- The guest is travelling on a oneworld-marketed and -operated flight (does not have to be the same flight as you)
- You have a direct flight and it is First Class domestic or First Class international <5 h -- access for you? For guest?
- You have a direct flight and it is oneworld-marketed but not oneworld-operated, or vice-versa -- access for you ("when you fly First Class or Business Class with any oneworld member airline" in general but for connections explicitly "an international flight marketed and operated by any oneworld carrier")? For guest?
- You have non-direct flights but no segment in which you travel First Class international >5 h (only First Class domestic or <5 h international) -- access for you? For guest? At which airport(s)?
- You are travelling from the airport but the guest is arriving at their final destination -- access for guest (it just says "travelling" not "departs")?
Jan 2, 2024 | 9:33 pm
#4
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 670
Yes, to all of your numbered points, with the addition that the guest must be departing, not arriving (the question is moot in the vast majority of cases outside the USA since lounges are generally airside in a departures area not accessible to arrivees).
Corner cases:
a) Yes for you and for a guest, but see the "Lounge Access Exceptions" on the oneworld page.
b) Case by case - it depends on the arrangement between the code-share carrier and the operating carrier. It's not covered by oneworld rules.
c) It is then judged segment by segment according to the rules on non-connecting flights.
d) No access - the key word is "join". Once you have left the lounge the guest is no longer "joining" you and must leave also.
At least, that's how I have always understood the rules over many years as a OWE (CX, BA and AA at various times) and F/J traveller.
Corner cases:
a) Yes for you and for a guest, but see the "Lounge Access Exceptions" on the oneworld page.
b) Case by case - it depends on the arrangement between the code-share carrier and the operating carrier. It's not covered by oneworld rules.
c) It is then judged segment by segment according to the rules on non-connecting flights.
d) No access - the key word is "join". Once you have left the lounge the guest is no longer "joining" you and must leave also.
At least, that's how I have always understood the rules over many years as a OWE (CX, BA and AA at various times) and F/J traveller.
Jan 2, 2024 | 11:58 pm
#5
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Thanks. I don't buy d). I don't believe this is a requirement. I see "join" as being entry, not about constant proximity. In practice it would be essentially impossible for any such requirement to be enforced anyway (you don't have a tag and they don't do exit checks). I admit that I don't have personal experience (either as a guest or as a host) and I've never been in a first-class lounge (where I suppose they might be stricter).
OK, so ta-dah here is my latest consolidated version. Does it look correct and complete to you? Can you explain the 06:00 thing? Note that I'm assuming the exclusion of lounge access for QR/AY "Light" business does not apply if you have Sapphire status.
OK, so ta-dah here is my latest consolidated version. Does it look correct and complete to you? Can you explain the 06:00 thing? Note that I'm assuming the exclusion of lounge access for QR/AY "Light" business does not apply if you have Sapphire status.
You may access a lounge (first-class, where available, if in First Class) if all of the following conditions are met:
You may access a lounge (first-class, where available, if you are Emerald) if all of the following conditions are met:
You may bring one guest into the lounge if all of the following conditions are met:
[1] The rules at https://www.oneworld.com/airport-lounges for direct flights just say "fly First Class or Business Class with any oneworld member airline" but it is safer to assume this means both marketed and operated by a oneworld airline.
[2] The rules at https://www.oneworld.com/airport-lounges say "at the airport from which the oneworld flight on which the eligible customer is travelling departs". There are situations in which you can access a lounge on arrival, e.g. when flying AA domestic (see https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...lub-access.jsp ), but this is airline-specific, not a oneworld benefit.
[3] The rules at https://www.oneworld.com/airport-lounges for direct flights just say "The guest must also be travelling on a flight operated and marketed by a oneworld carrier[/airline]" but it is unlikely this would be accepted as covering arrival at final destination, and in any case it is generally impossible to access departure lounges on arrival (see also [2]).
[4] If your flight is not direct and you have an international segment with > 5 h flight time, the rules at https://www.oneworld.com/airport-lounges are that this is the one in which you have to be travelling First or Business, which then applies to all segments. The rules are not clear if you have two such segments and one is Economy, or if you don't have any such segments, but it's likely the rules would be applied for each segment independently.
[5] I don't know what this is about!
- You are travelling on a oneworld-marketed and -operated flight [1]
- You are travelling in or connecting to/from First or Business Class [4]
- You are travelling from the airport (i.e. origin or transit; not arriving at your final destination [2])
- You enter the lounge before 06:00 after the day of travel [5]
You may access a lounge (first-class, where available, if you are Emerald) if all of the following conditions are met:
- You are travelling on a oneworld-marketed and -operated flight (even if you are travelling Economy, even "Basic" Economy fares)
- You are oneworld Sapphire or Emerald
- You are travelling from the airport (i.e. origin or transit; not arriving at your final destination [2])
- You enter the lounge before 06:00 after the day of travel [5]
You may bring one guest into the lounge if all of the following conditions are met:
- You may access the lounge (whether first-class or business)
- The guest is travelling on a oneworld-marketed and -operated flight (does not have to be the same flight as you)
- The guest is travelling from the airport (i.e. origin or transit; not arriving at their final destination [3])
[1] The rules at https://www.oneworld.com/airport-lounges for direct flights just say "fly First Class or Business Class with any oneworld member airline" but it is safer to assume this means both marketed and operated by a oneworld airline.
[2] The rules at https://www.oneworld.com/airport-lounges say "at the airport from which the oneworld flight on which the eligible customer is travelling departs". There are situations in which you can access a lounge on arrival, e.g. when flying AA domestic (see https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...lub-access.jsp ), but this is airline-specific, not a oneworld benefit.
[3] The rules at https://www.oneworld.com/airport-lounges for direct flights just say "The guest must also be travelling on a flight operated and marketed by a oneworld carrier[/airline]" but it is unlikely this would be accepted as covering arrival at final destination, and in any case it is generally impossible to access departure lounges on arrival (see also [2]).
[4] If your flight is not direct and you have an international segment with > 5 h flight time, the rules at https://www.oneworld.com/airport-lounges are that this is the one in which you have to be travelling First or Business, which then applies to all segments. The rules are not clear if you have two such segments and one is Economy, or if you don't have any such segments, but it's likely the rules would be applied for each segment independently.
[5] I don't know what this is about!
Jan 3, 2024 | 12:41 am
#6
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 670
[5] Refers to what qualifies as a connecting flight. For example, if you arrive in transit on 3 January then the departure flight of your transit must be before 06:00 on 4 January for it to qualify as a connecting flight under these rules. Obviously, you can only access the lounge before the qualifying connecting flight. It would be absurd to argue that your guest could stay until 6am the next day, which is potentially more than 24 hours after your departure. That clearly isn't the intent of the rules.
Last edited by PaulC852; Jan 3, 2024 at 1:16 am Reason: typo
Jan 3, 2024 | 1:00 am
#7
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OK, then this must only apply when you're entering on the basis of your class, since if you're entering on the basis of your status it doesn't matter when you enter. Updated version:
oneworld lounge access rules (believed to be correct as at 2024-01-03 [0])
You may access a lounge (first-class, where available, if in First Class) if all of the following conditions are met:
1. You are travelling on a oneworld-marketed and -operated flight [1]
2. You are travelling in or connecting to/from First or Business Class [4]
3. You are travelling from the airport (i.e. origin or transit; not arriving at your final destination [2])
4. You enter the lounge before 06:00 after the day of arrival for the previous segment, if in transit [5]
5. None of the exclusions identified on the oneworld website (see https://www.oneworld.com/airport-lounges ) apply, e.g. "Light" Business fares, super-premium AA/BA lounges
You may access a lounge (first-class, where available, if you are Emerald) if all of the following conditions are met:
1. You are travelling on a oneworld-marketed and -operated flight (even if you are travelling Economy, even "Basic" Economy fares) [6]
2. You are oneworld Sapphire or Emerald [6]
3. You are travelling from the airport (i.e. origin or transit; not arriving at your final destination [2])
4. None of the exclusions identified on the oneworld website (see https://www.oneworld.com/airport-lounges ) apply, e.g. AA/AS/QF paid membership, AA/AS elites and domestic travel, UL elites and regional flights, super-premium AA/BA/QR lounges
You may bring one guest into the lounge if all of the following conditions are met:
1. You may access the lounge (whether first-class or business)
2. The guest is travelling on a oneworld-marketed and -operated flight (does not have to be the same flight as you)
3. The guest is travelling from the airport (i.e. origin or transit; not arriving at their final destination [3])
Notes:
1. The rules are different for oneworld connect (see https://www.oneworld.com/members/fiji-airways for the only current such airline).
2. There may be additional airline-specific ways to enter a lounge (e.g. access on arrival when flying AA domestic (see https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...lub-access.jsp )), in addition to the oneworld-based ways described above.
Footnotes/references:
[0] The rules are at https://www.oneworld.com/airport-lounges.
[1] The rules for direct flights just say "fly First Class or Business Class with any oneworld member airline" but it is safer to assume this means both marketed and operated by a oneworld airline.
[2] The rules say "at the airport from which the oneworld flight on which the eligible customer is travelling departs".
[3] The rules for direct flights just say "The guest must also be travelling on a flight operated and marketed by a oneworld carrier[/airline]" but it is unlikely this would be accepted as covering arrival at final destination, and in any case it is generally impossible to access departure lounges on arrival (see also [2]).
[4] The rules if your flight is not direct say you "can access the lounge when travelling between an international long haul (a oneworld international long haul flight is defined as an international flight marketed and operated by any oneworld carrier with a scheduled flight time longer than 5 hours) and an international short haul or domestic flight (and vice-versa). Lounge access will be determined on the international long haul ticketed flight (either First of Business Class) regardless of the ticketed class of travel on the international short haul or domestic flight." The rules are not clear if you have two segments that are international with > 5 h travel time and they are in different classes, or if you don't have any such segments (it's possible the rules would be applied for each segment as if it were direct, in the latter case).
[5] The rules say "on the day of travel (or before 06:00am the following day)"; it's not clear whether "day of travel" refers to when the previous flight departed or when it arrived, but it's probably the latter.
[6] The rules say "Members of oneworld airline frequent flyer programmes with the equivalent of oneworld Emerald or Sapphire tier status can use lounges offered by oneworld airlines when departing on any flight marketed and operated by any oneworld member airline, regardless of cabin class being flown (exceptions are noted below)."
You may access a lounge (first-class, where available, if in First Class) if all of the following conditions are met:
1. You are travelling on a oneworld-marketed and -operated flight [1]
2. You are travelling in or connecting to/from First or Business Class [4]
3. You are travelling from the airport (i.e. origin or transit; not arriving at your final destination [2])
4. You enter the lounge before 06:00 after the day of arrival for the previous segment, if in transit [5]
5. None of the exclusions identified on the oneworld website (see https://www.oneworld.com/airport-lounges ) apply, e.g. "Light" Business fares, super-premium AA/BA lounges
You may access a lounge (first-class, where available, if you are Emerald) if all of the following conditions are met:
1. You are travelling on a oneworld-marketed and -operated flight (even if you are travelling Economy, even "Basic" Economy fares) [6]
2. You are oneworld Sapphire or Emerald [6]
3. You are travelling from the airport (i.e. origin or transit; not arriving at your final destination [2])
4. None of the exclusions identified on the oneworld website (see https://www.oneworld.com/airport-lounges ) apply, e.g. AA/AS/QF paid membership, AA/AS elites and domestic travel, UL elites and regional flights, super-premium AA/BA/QR lounges
You may bring one guest into the lounge if all of the following conditions are met:
1. You may access the lounge (whether first-class or business)
2. The guest is travelling on a oneworld-marketed and -operated flight (does not have to be the same flight as you)
3. The guest is travelling from the airport (i.e. origin or transit; not arriving at their final destination [3])
Notes:
1. The rules are different for oneworld connect (see https://www.oneworld.com/members/fiji-airways for the only current such airline).
2. There may be additional airline-specific ways to enter a lounge (e.g. access on arrival when flying AA domestic (see https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...lub-access.jsp )), in addition to the oneworld-based ways described above.
Footnotes/references:
[0] The rules are at https://www.oneworld.com/airport-lounges.
[1] The rules for direct flights just say "fly First Class or Business Class with any oneworld member airline" but it is safer to assume this means both marketed and operated by a oneworld airline.
[2] The rules say "at the airport from which the oneworld flight on which the eligible customer is travelling departs".
[3] The rules for direct flights just say "The guest must also be travelling on a flight operated and marketed by a oneworld carrier[/airline]" but it is unlikely this would be accepted as covering arrival at final destination, and in any case it is generally impossible to access departure lounges on arrival (see also [2]).
[4] The rules if your flight is not direct say you "can access the lounge when travelling between an international long haul (a oneworld international long haul flight is defined as an international flight marketed and operated by any oneworld carrier with a scheduled flight time longer than 5 hours) and an international short haul or domestic flight (and vice-versa). Lounge access will be determined on the international long haul ticketed flight (either First of Business Class) regardless of the ticketed class of travel on the international short haul or domestic flight." The rules are not clear if you have two segments that are international with > 5 h travel time and they are in different classes, or if you don't have any such segments (it's possible the rules would be applied for each segment as if it were direct, in the latter case).
[5] The rules say "on the day of travel (or before 06:00am the following day)"; it's not clear whether "day of travel" refers to when the previous flight departed or when it arrived, but it's probably the latter.
[6] The rules say "Members of oneworld airline frequent flyer programmes with the equivalent of oneworld Emerald or Sapphire tier status can use lounges offered by oneworld airlines when departing on any flight marketed and operated by any oneworld member airline, regardless of cabin class being flown (exceptions are noted below)."
Last edited by Kvarko; Jan 3, 2024 at 1:45 am Reason: More tweaks (mostly editorial, but [4] and [5] substantive)
Jan 5, 2024 | 7:02 pm
#8
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NRT / HND
Programs: AA EXP, A3 Gold, Former UA 1K
Posts: 6,365
Well you could have fun with QF lounge agents who are clueless to the rules at all...
Had one in AKL insist that the guest has to be on the same flight as me. I pushed back hard, there was no supervisor working (Jan 1) and these were clearly contract employees, not actual QF workers.
She let us in reluctantly on a 'one time basis' after I read her the OW rules verbatim from the website, she said she'd "been told that the guest must be on the same flight", this was after fiddling with her PC for a good minute or so and seeing the boarding pass that was clearly a different airline. (I was on AA, guest on CX which was delayed)
My guest did not leave with me (yes I know that's the rule) and didn't get kicked out either. She stayed to enjoy plenty of fine NZ wine and left on her own accord when it was time, so was happy with the outcome.
Had one in AKL insist that the guest has to be on the same flight as me. I pushed back hard, there was no supervisor working (Jan 1) and these were clearly contract employees, not actual QF workers.
She let us in reluctantly on a 'one time basis' after I read her the OW rules verbatim from the website, she said she'd "been told that the guest must be on the same flight", this was after fiddling with her PC for a good minute or so and seeing the boarding pass that was clearly a different airline. (I was on AA, guest on CX which was delayed)
My guest did not leave with me (yes I know that's the rule) and didn't get kicked out either. She stayed to enjoy plenty of fine NZ wine and left on her own accord when it was time, so was happy with the outcome.
Jan 6, 2024 | 1:08 am
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: LON
Programs: oneworld (Sapphire), Lidl Plus
Posts: 117
read her the OW rules verbatim from the website
My guest did not leave with me (yes I know that's the rule)
Jan 6, 2024 | 4:26 pm
#10
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NRT / HND
Programs: AA EXP, A3 Gold, Former UA 1K
Posts: 6,365
The only time I've ever had the lounge staff really police it was one time at the UA Club somewhere domestic, might have been ORD or DEN, can't remember but I was on an international ticket as a 1K (self + 1 guest allowed). Someone in front of me was trying to get in on a Chase Pass that was expired, so I just said I'd guest her in. First they got in a huff and asked if we knew each other, so I just said yes and the other passenger played along. Then they made a strong point that she must leave the same time I did, so we just said ok and went on our day. I don't think they can really deny access just because we met 5 seconds before, that's not in the rules, but is of course against the spirit of guesting someone. The agent clearly didn't like it.
Jan 7, 2024 | 11:35 pm
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: LON
Programs: oneworld (Sapphire), Lidl Plus
Posts: 117
My antidote to people coming up with "local rules" is to print out the alliance conditions and stick to my guns!
(I was once in a situation flying (then) Alitalia intercontinental in Y (or maybe W, but anyway not J), transiting to an intra-European flight in J (because for some reason the overall trip was cheapest that way). At the time the rules seemed to allow access to the lounge at the departing airport, though I seem to remember they were arguably ambiguous (it was something like "you may access the lounge if you are connecting to/from a business-class flight"). I (politely) argued the toss with the lounge dragons (I think maybe it was a Delta lounge or something), spoke twice to Alitalia on the phone, said I would follow up with a complaint ... and in the end they let me in!
The current rules, https://www.staralliance.com/en/lounge-access-policy , are arguably still ambiguous:
Does a boarding pass for a flight you will connect to (as opposed to the flight you will be taking next) count?
)
I don't think there's any requirement to know your guest (well, to have known your guest for more than 5 seconds). I am not sure of the origins of the guest rule, but I had always thought of it as being in part a marketing tool: "hey look, if you were flying business with <airline> or had elite status in <airline programme>, you too could be enjoying this life of pampered luxury!", so I am not sure it's against the spirit of guesting someone.
(I was once in a situation flying (then) Alitalia intercontinental in Y (or maybe W, but anyway not J), transiting to an intra-European flight in J (because for some reason the overall trip was cheapest that way). At the time the rules seemed to allow access to the lounge at the departing airport, though I seem to remember they were arguably ambiguous (it was something like "you may access the lounge if you are connecting to/from a business-class flight"). I (politely) argued the toss with the lounge dragons (I think maybe it was a Delta lounge or something), spoke twice to Alitalia on the phone, said I would follow up with a complaint ... and in the end they let me in!
The current rules, https://www.staralliance.com/en/lounge-access-policy , are arguably still ambiguous:
As an International Business Class Customer you have access to any Star Alliance member carriers owned Business Class lounge at the airport where your flight departs, if the following conditions are met:
- You present a boarding pass in International Business Class on a Star Alliance member airline operated flight
- Your flight departs on the same day of your visit or latest by 05:00 AM the next morning
)
I don't think there's any requirement to know your guest (well, to have known your guest for more than 5 seconds). I am not sure of the origins of the guest rule, but I had always thought of it as being in part a marketing tool: "hey look, if you were flying business with <airline> or had elite status in <airline programme>, you too could be enjoying this life of pampered luxury!", so I am not sure it's against the spirit of guesting someone.
Jan 24, 2024 | 7:32 pm
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MEL CHC
Posts: 22,919
https://www.fijiairways.com/en-us/ex...remier-lounge/
But does not list "Finnair Airways Business Class Guests", but has "Complimentary use for Fiji Airways Business Class guests"
Which airline "tickets" is irrelevant. All based on class of travel and flight number (~ if codeshare)
Master thread of sorts --> Question on Fiji Airway mixed cabin lounge access
For others is a very complicated table for lounge access.
To me FJ as "Oneworld connect" has little value, but a lot of confusion.
Better if FJ became a full member or reverted back direct freq flyer partnerships -arrangements with individual airlines
Mar 23, 2024 | 1:31 am
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MEL CHC
Posts: 22,919
QF web site -->https://www.qantas.com/au/en/qantas-...t-lounges.html
Has answers to your questions