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-   -   Advice on round the world trip to include Australia and French Polynesia? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld/2129083-advice-round-world-trip-include-australia-french-polynesia.html)

steveholt Jul 29, 2023 7:50 pm

For reference, some base prices for DONE4s around Europe at the moment on BA:

OSL $5739
ARN $6177
BUD $6457
WAW $7373
IST $7685
CPH $7753
Eurozone countries (MAD, DUB, FCO, AMS etc) $7760
LHR $7997
PRG $8932
ZRH $11241

ademanuele Jul 29, 2023 9:54 pm


Originally Posted by steveholt (Post 35455689)
For reference, some base prices for DONE4s around Europe at the moment on BA:

OSL $5739
ARN $6177
BUD $6457
WAW $7373
IST $7685
CPH $7753
Eurozone countries (MAD, DUB, FCO, AMS etc) $7760
LHR $7997
PRG $8932
ZRH $11241

Thanks, that is quite a range. And I assume there is variance with the airline booked with as well. I will go through some of the sticky threads, this is all very new to me but getting there!

Mwenenzi Jul 29, 2023 10:59 pm


Originally Posted by ademanuele (Post 35455825)
Thanks, that is quite a range. And I assume there is variance with the airline booked with as well. I will go through some of the sticky threads, this is all very new to me but getting there!

Some airlines/airline routes will add a YQ/YR carrier surcharge,(BA?). Others do not.
Real govt and regulatory authority taxes/charges are the same for every airline on the same route/class of travel.

Establishing a theoretical route is one thing. Getting 2 x D class seats some where near the days you want to travel is another.
On the same route, dates can be changed at no cost (not a re-ticket). Some airlines may charge a small service fee.

Time to fix a route and try to get it ticketed. :)

ademanuele Jul 29, 2023 11:08 pm


Originally Posted by Mwenenzi (Post 35455874)

Establishing a theoretical route is one thing. Getting 2 x D class seats some where near the days you want to travel is another.
On the same route, dates can be changed at no cost (not a re-ticket). Some airlines may charge a small service fee.

Time to fix a route and try to get it ticketed. :)

Are there limited seats (like Avios) for DONE tickets? Is it usually a problem if you book once flight schedules published?

If you have a break in your journey (say a few months gap), can you book the ticket before all the flights are published or do you have to wait until ~355 days (for BA) when flights are available. If the latter do you risk availability on flights near the start of your trip?

Mwenenzi Jul 29, 2023 11:30 pm


Originally Posted by ademanuele (Post 35455886)
Are there limited seats (like Avios) for DONE tickets? Is it usually a problem if you book once flight schedules published?

If you have a break in your journey (say a few months gap), can you book the ticket before all the flights are published or do you have to wait until ~355 days (for BA) when flights are available. If the latter do you risk availability on flights near the start of your trip?

Q1.
Can be. D seats are the lowest business class fare bucket. For example when LATAM was in Oneworld SCL-AKL/SYD in D & L were almost impossible to get. The cost per mile is a lot less than a simple return ticket (why we like them). Expert flyer can show D, but unsure if all airlines.

Q2.
What most people do is book the flights with holding dates and then change to later dates. Especially for those that use the full year.- really no other choice. If doing the complete trip in say 10 weeks that would not be needed. FT is unusual in that we use the full 16 segments and to the limit of the allowable rules. (all segments, long trips like across USA and AU, dates).

Changing dates to later can be an issue if a route is withdrawn. So needs a re-ticket with new routing.

Qantas and some travel agents have told me they will ticket a DONE4 for example a SYD-LHR-JFK-LAX-SYD in business class. Cheaper and more flexible that point to point/open jaw. Again on FT we go the limits of what the rules allow to maximise places visits and maximise miles/status earning. On FT people on RTW that have spare segments, would think not about spending a day XXX-YYY-XXX get more miles/status earning.

steveholt Jul 30, 2023 11:13 am


Originally Posted by ademanuele (Post 35455825)
Thanks, that is quite a range. And I assume there is variance with the airline booked with as well. I will go through some of the sticky threads, this is all very new to me but getting there!

As Mwenenzi said, there's variance from airline to airline. BA is known for charging carrier surcharges on their long-haul flights, and LHR has an Air Passenger Duty that can rise up to several hundred dollars on departing flights. It's probably best to avoid BA longhaul as a result.

In booking my RTW (with the help of this wonderful community), I discovered that there's a drastic difference in pricing on US-Aussie flights between QF and AA. Switching from a QF flight over the Pacific to an AA one dropped my ticket by about $1250 US.

ademanuele Jul 30, 2023 11:20 am


Originally Posted by steveholt (Post 35456929)

In booking my RTW (with the help of this wonderful community), I discovered that there's a drastic difference in pricing on US-Aussie flights between QF and AA. Switching from a QF flight over the Pacific to an AA one dropped my ticket by about $1250 US.

Thanks. Is there a list/ranking of oneworld airlines according to surcharges? If you have a flight with a shared code e.g. BA and AA (BA metal) does it make a difference if you use the AA code for the booking?

steveholt Jul 30, 2023 11:36 am


Originally Posted by ademanuele (Post 35456943)
Thanks. Is there a list/ranking of oneworld airlines according to surcharges? If you have a flight with a shared code e.g. BA and AA (BA metal) does it make a difference if you use the AA code for the booking?

There's no official ranking, I suppose, but it's worth trial and error. AA would generally be better than BA on flights to LHR to my knowledge, although you're best off avoiding LHR altogether for departures regardless of AA/BA.

jerry a. laska Jul 30, 2023 11:50 am

Just a though ademanuele if you haven’t already you should read the user guide located as a sticky at the top of the forum:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onew...ser-guide.html


To add to an [MENTION=6129]Mwenenzi[/MENTION]answer earlier D is not the lowest business class fare, I generally is lowest.

Mwenenzi Jul 30, 2023 1:44 pm


Originally Posted by steveholt (Post 35456929)
....... and LHR has an Air Passenger Duty that can rise up to several hundred dollars on departing flights....

The UK APD is not only for LHR
wikipedia-->https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Passenger_Duty

Air Passenger Duty (APD) is an excise duty which is charged on the carriage of passengers flying from a United Kingdom or Isle of Man airport on an aircraft that has an authorised take-off weight of more than 5.7 tonnes or more than twenty seats for passengers. The duty is not payable by inbound international passengers who are booked[1] to continue their journey (to an international destination) within 24 hours of their scheduled time of arrival in the UK. (The same exemption applies to booked onward domestic flights, but the time limits are shorter and more complex.) If a passenger "stops-over" for more than 24 hours (or the domestic limit, if applicable), duty is payable in full.
<snip>
Independent Newspaper (Oct 2021)-->Air Passenger Duty: everything you ever wanted to know about the UK’s flight tax

<snip>
How can I avoid APD?
These are some of the tax-avoiding options:
  1. Don’t fly.
  2. Be under 16 and travel in basic economy (or under two in business class).
  3. Fly into the UK on one plane and out within 24 hours on another and have them both included in the same ticket.
  4. Be a pilot or member of cabin crew on duty.
  5. Be repatriated after being refused admission to the UK.
  6. Fly on a route from a UK airport that is not subject to Air Passenger Duty.
I can’t manage 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 right now, but how do I find an APD-free flight?
Fly from the Scottish Highlands and Islands Region, which includes Orkney, Shetland, the Western Isles, Oban, Campbeltown and Inverness.

Remarkably, even if you are fly from Inverness to London Heathrow and onwards to a long-haul destination, the tax saving applies. Flying from Aberdeen to New York on British Airways in late November, for example, costs £392 return – but from Inverness the fare is just £316, saving one-fifth on the trip.

Long-haul flights from Belfast are also free of tax.
<snip>
UK Govt-->https://www.gov.uk/topic/business-ta...uty#P339_20484

ernestnywang Aug 1, 2023 12:17 pm


Originally Posted by Mwenenzi (Post 35455908)
D seats are the lowest business class fare bucket.

Umm no, there is I class below D class, and some oneworld airlines have an additional booking class lower than D.

ademanuele Aug 2, 2023 3:06 am

We have finalised the stops on our first OWE (DONE4) and costed the various trips. I hope the routing meets the rules 😬 (I have now read the Oneworld Explorer User Guide, excellent resource)…

We plan to start in January 2025, with the a second trip in November 2025. I plan to book the trip in March 2024 when most of the flights are published and book dummy flights for the 2nd trip in November. We have used the maximum 16 segments (yielding 1780 TPs).

I asked the questions below on the newbie lounge as well:
  • The guide states that "Generally, the ticket will be issued by whichever airline flies your first segment.The first carrier cannot be Qatar Airways". Does this mean you can not use QR for your first flight or do you have to book with another airline (I had planned my first flight to be OSL-DOH, in fact first four flights QR before using EDIT: QF not QS)?
  • On the Oneworld Explorer on-line booking tool can you enter surface sectors (and if so how)?
  • I understand some airlines are more expensive than others for surcharges e.g. BA. If a flight has a codeshare will the flight cost be the same irrespective of which airline code you use?

GCMapper
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...d3d5f35e2b.jpg

Mwenenzi Aug 2, 2023 3:22 am

Rule 4i

(l) Within Australia - only one nonstop/single plane service flight is permitted between the following
points:
BME - BNE/MEL/SYD
DRW - CBR/MEL/SYD
KTA - BNE/MEL/SYD
PER - BNE/CBR/CNS/SYD/MEL

My reading of the rule is that is in either direction.
You have SYD-PER and PER-SYD. My understanding that counts as 2.
Edit. You have SYD-PER-SYD-AKL, With the train better as SYD-PER, SYD-AKL. I would put the surface sectors in another column
This version of CGmap can show different colors (air surface)
-->http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=c%3Ablu...=bm&PW=3&DU=mi (template from pandaperth)

Better places in NZ to visit than AKL.
QF flys to AKL, WLG, CHC & ZQN from BNE, SYD, MEL (not all to all, but most). Years ago QF did fly PER-AKL in summer,

ademanuele Aug 2, 2023 3:43 am


Originally Posted by Mwenenzi (Post 35464081)
Rule 4i

My reading of the rule is that is in either direction.
You have SYD-PER and PER-SYD. My understanding that counts as 2.
Edit. You have SYD-PER-SYD-AKL, With the train better as SYD-PER, SYD-AKL. I would put the surface sectors in another column
This version of CGmap can show different colors (air surface)
-->A map from the Great Circle Mapper - Great Circle Mapper (from pandaperth)

Better places in NZ to visit than AKL.
QF flys to AKL, WLG, CHC & ZQN from BNE, SYD, MEL (not all to all, but most). Years ago QF did fly PER-AKL in summer,

Thanks. So the trip follows the rules?

Will be our first visit to NZ, we are using Auckland as a base to a) head to South Island and b) return to take a flight to French Polynesia. We will explore Auckland and North Island on our next visit (don't want to rush South Island!).

Gardyloo Aug 2, 2023 9:22 am

I think your trip follows the rules but I'd be less than candid if I said it will be easy to book. Some aspects, in particular the DOH-EBB-DOH-JNB shuttle, are likely IMO to give any booking agent fits as it will push their understanding of the rules about two connections through the Middle East:


e) Only one intercontinental departure and one intercontinental arrival permitted in each continent except as follows:
1. Two permitted in North America.
2. Two permitted in Asia.
3. Two permitted in Europe/Middle East for travel to/from/via Africa. If travel is to/from Europe in both directions, itinerary may not include Mauritius/South Africa.
This requires understanding that section 3 distinguishes the Middle East as a subdivision of the Europe/Middle East "continent," and that your route is legal as long as you don't return to Europe (the other subdivision of Europe/Middle East) between African destinations, one of which is Joburg. In other words, a routing of LHR-DOH-EBB-LHR-JNB-SYD would be against the rules while LHR-DOH-EBB-DOH-JNB would comply, if you get my meaning.

I'd definitely look at switching either or both SYD-LAX and LAX-LHR to AA metal so that you'd make it easier for the AA RTW desk to issue the ticket. If QR can't or won't issue the ticket, the next logical issuer with the current plan would be either QF or BA, both of which will expose you to big surcharges and user fees that MIGHT be avoided in whole or in part if AA issues the ticket. AA apparently prefers to have at least one transoceanic segment on their own metal in order to justify the work of issuing an RTW ticket.

For these reasons, and given you have quite a long time before you need to buy something, I'd spend some effort in locating a travel agent who can book these tickets, one with whom you can develop a relationship in the meantime so that when the time comes, you won't be at the mercy of some know-nothing airline rep or some robot who will hijack all your plans. You need someone with access to, and a working knowledge of, the GDS ticketing systems. These people exist, but you'll have to do some digging.


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