Oneworld Explorer Question
 

I am in the process of making some changes to a Oneworld Explorer ticket and I am banging up against the maximum number of segments. The ticket originated in Cairo and at the moment it finishes in Amman. The BA Agent I am dealing with is telling me that, athough I can finish in Amman, in order for the ticket to be valid, the last segment (which I am not flying) i.e. AMM/CAI must be taken into account within the 16 segments. That doesn't sound right to me - I've never heard of that before. Does anyone else have any experience with this ?

You are correct - agent is inventing a rule that doesn't exist.

While it is true that surface sectors DO count towards the 16-sector limit, this is only true in cases the open-jaw occurs between two flight sectors. In these cases an informational sector called an ARUNK is inserted in the ticket, and this consumes one of the 16 "coupons" allowed in the e-ticket. Since an open-jaw between Origin & Destination doesn't require an ARUNK, as long as rules permit the combination of origin/destination you've requested, you should be good to go.

Full list of acceptable open-jaws for origin/destination is in the rule 4(c), as follows
:


All that said: explaining to an agent that they are incorrect, and convincing them to accept that, well, this is easier said than done. Good Luck!

And, if you can include a land segment for the last segment, origin/destination restriction is almost meaningless.

You may ask the agent about
'Then, under your logic, can I do AMM-FRA-JFK-NRT-LHR//AMM, so practically, end at LHR ?'

The reason the agent insists on his/her interpretation is the seemingly poor wording of the rules: This implies it uses up a segment and elsewhere in the rules it clearly states 16 segments is the max allowed for the ticket. Try talking to the BA RTW Europe people in UK, they have knowledgeable agents there.

Definitely a case of HUACA in my opinion

While the fare rule is ambiguous, I have never heard of an agent trying to impose such a restrictionI personally have had four RTWs with origin-destination open jaws. All were 16 segment tickets (of course!). Never had a problem; not when purchasing and not when making changes.
And BTW, one of them was a BA-issued ticket

Thanks for your input guys. They are insistent ! And I am dealing with the BA RTW people in the UK.

However, I managed to re-route the rest of the ticket so as to save a sector on the way into the US. And optimise a few other elements so it works better too. As you say, explaining to someone that they are incorrect and convincing them to accept that is easier said than done. Actually the problem seems to be the fares people, not the agent. Apparently a manager in the fares department (who don't speak directly to customers) told the guy I was speaking to (on the gold executive club line) that he shouldn't be dealing with the ticket because it was too complicated for him. I wonder who it is I am supposed to be speaking to !

I will attack it again the next time I make changes to the ticket. I now have CAI-LHR-IAD-DFW-SYD-WLG-AKL-KUL-CMB-MLE-SGN-DOH//LHR-MCT-DOH-AMM. Lots of miles and tier points there !

By the way, one other thing I was told when trying to make this round of changes was that I can only have three 'Long Segments" in Europe/Middle East. That's why I have DOH/LHR in there as a surface sector. They are saying I can't fly it because I have already done CAI/LHR and I have LHR/MCT later in the ticket. However, that can't be right either, as I did DOH-WAW-DOH-LHR on a previous RTW ticket. Are they also wrong about this ?

This reminds me A LOT of the runaround I got back in 2015 when trying to get BA to change my ex-CPT ticket - see here https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/25576609-post91.html
Perhaps you need to get a supervisor involved to get the two teams (RTW and Fares) talking to each other about this.

Slightly confused here - am I correct that WLG-AKL and MLE-SGN are surface sectors?
When did you buy your ticket?
Before 1-Dec-2016 there was a restriction on 'long segment' flights to/from the UK

It would have had to have been purchased before then as BA stopped selling xONEn ex-Egypt around mid-November 2016. I purchased mine from BA on November 10, 2016 and at that time AA was not selling ex-CAI and BA stopped sales a few days after I purchased mine.

Nope, WLG-AKL is on Jetstar. That bit is not ticketed yet. The agent told me it's valid because it's a QF codeshare. Is it not ?

MLE-SGN is on Cathay Pacific. I missed out HKG - did it from memory :). So it's actually MLE-HKG-SGN.

Just checked the original ticket purchase date. Was on the 29th of November 2016. So seems like I am caught (just). I did buy it through BA thought, so I guess they didn't stop selling ex-Egypt until more like the end of November.

No - my mistake. QF codeshares on JQ are allowed.

Well then I am still confused. Your itinerary appears to me to have 16 segments and so does not satisfy BA's claimed requirement for a final AMM-CAI surface segment
CAI-LHR-IAD-DFW-SYD-WLG-AKL-KUL-CMB-MLE-HKG-SGN-DOH//LHR-MCT-DOH-AMM

You are right ! Okay, that explains it. TYVM. I think I must have miscounted the segments and just focused on what the agent told me. It would be so much easier if changes to these tickets could be made online !

QF coded JQ is allowed on oneworld tickets, however QF does not sell D on these flights (even on flights with a J cabin) and using such flights can limit ticketing options as some airlines can't ticket JQ operated flights.

I managed to get this ticketed but now BA are raising new issues with the ticket when I tried to change some dates. They are saying that the routing is invalid and it should not have been ticketed because I have too many stopovers in the continent of origin. It seems that because of the surface segment from DOH to LHR, which I only have in there because of the rule about 'long segment' flights to/from the UK, they are now saying I have too many stopovers in Europe/Middle East. (London, Doha, London, Muscat). Apparently you're only allowed three or something. I guess I could get around this and the 'long segment' thing by changing into and out of another airport in Europe - say Warsaw (that would work for us too) and ending in DOH instead ? Something like the following, in other words :

CAI-LHR-IAD-DFW-SYD-WLG-AKL-KUL-CMB-MLE-HKG-SGN-DOH-WAW/LHR-MCT-DOH

Are they correct about the point regarding stopovers ? They ticketed it anyway, but told me I wouldn't be able to make any further changes to the ticket now without fixiing the problem.

Also tried to upgrade a couple of segments to First (I have done this on a DONE5 previously) and was told that it's not possible to do that with this ticket type. Having done it in the past, I don't believe that's correct, but the agent was adamant ! I am wondering if it's actually due to the routing being invalid and the way they have ticketed it so as to prevent further changes being made.

Any thoughts appreciated !

BA is correct. The rule is:Again, BA is correct. The rule is:What you might have done in the past is upgrade some segments using FF points/miles. This is allowed. For example:
- on a QF-issued ticket I have upgraded QF segments using QF FF points
- on an AA-issued ticket I have upgraded AA segments using AA FF upgrade certificates
What is not allowed is upgrading segments by paying money

• congratulations on getting your changes made
• if you are planning more RTW journeys, I suggest you familiarise yourself with the fare rules (they are available on oneworld.com); and also take a copy of the rules as they are on the day you purchase your ticket

Happy Travels Brianek

Thanks Pandaperth. Actually, I was trying to upgrade using Avios not money. I wouldn't spend my hard earned cash on upgrades. That's what Air Miles are for :). So, on that point BA are incorrect then ? If so, I suspect the real problem is the 'lock' they have put on making further changes to the ticket (as opposed to what the agent told me).

Thanks also for the clarification on the stopover rule. Just one point on this. In relation to that rule, I assume that Europe/Middle East is a regarded as single continent (i.e. not Europe and Middle East separately). On that assumption, I think the following should be valid as long as DOH is used as a transit point for SGN-DOH-WAW and LHR is used as a transit point for WAW-LHR-MCT (i.e. no stopovers in DOH and LHR, which I believe means less than 24 hours)

CAI-LHR-IAD-DFW-SYD-WLG-AKL-KUL-CMB-MLE-HKG-SGN-DOH-WAW-LHR-MCT-DOH

Would you agree ?

Actually Brianek is my dog's name. Well Brian actually, but we sometimes call him Brianek. My real name is Evan :).