Would SA fit into OW?
Sep 25, 2003 | 7:46 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: PHX/SFO/LAX
Programs: AA-EXP (1.7MM), BA-Slvr, HH-Diamond
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Would SA fit into OW?
Just wondering if SA would make a good/logical member of OW?
Currently it seems that they're more partnered with *, but as we all know partnerships are written in sand.
Currently it seems that they're more partnered with *, but as we all know partnerships are written in sand.
Sep 26, 2003 | 7:48 am
#2
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: SFO
Programs: AA 3 MM, IHG Diamond
Posts: 4,590
What? Bring SA into OW!!! No way, man!! We couldn't allow an airline to join OW that would bring competition to BA... Oh no, we wouldn't want to hurt BA's feelings at all.
Sorry to be sarcastic, but I doubt BA would let SA enter OW without substantial concessions (i.e. slots at LHR). Would SA agree to give those up? I don't know.
I thought SA was partnering up with ST...
Sorry to be sarcastic, but I doubt BA would let SA enter OW without substantial concessions (i.e. slots at LHR). Would SA agree to give those up? I don't know.
I thought SA was partnering up with ST...
Sep 26, 2003 | 10:53 am
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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I thought SA had decided not to go for an alliance.
As it is, they partner with several different airlines for miles and points and codeshare on several routes. Why do they need an alliance?
Still, it's difficult to know whether to add miles to my SK, DL or BD acounts for upcoming SA flights - looks lke BD because I'll get double miles plus 25% mileage.
Only downside is no status.
[edited for typo]
[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 09-26-2003).]
As it is, they partner with several different airlines for miles and points and codeshare on several routes. Why do they need an alliance?
Still, it's difficult to know whether to add miles to my SK, DL or BD acounts for upcoming SA flights - looks lke BD because I'll get double miles plus 25% mileage.
Only downside is no status.
[edited for typo]
[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 09-26-2003).]
Sep 26, 2003 | 2:52 pm
#5
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CT-UK:
or is it comair?
The aircraft are in BA colours and have BA fligt numbers</font>
or is it comair?
The aircraft are in BA colours and have BA fligt numbers</font>
I doubT SAA would ever join OW. BA's African routes are some of their most profitable, and they have established quite a web of franchise flights to feed the LHR routes.
Sep 27, 2003 | 3:15 am
#6
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,027
The question was would the "fit" in oneworld, not if they want to or not. I have just completed an airline alliance study focussing on oneworld, and worked closely with some people from the local SA office.
SA would fit perfectly into oneworld, i.e. Oneworld would have a lot to gain from SA.
However, as was pointed out above, as long as SA is more or less without a match on the African continent and enjoys a lot of monopoly power, it doesn't need oneworld and is better off playing both sides. Or all three if you want.
Also, SA seems to have a proprietary computer system incompatible with oneworld's and would need - like JL by the way -- substantial investment into upgrading their systems.
SA would fit perfectly into oneworld, i.e. Oneworld would have a lot to gain from SA.
However, as was pointed out above, as long as SA is more or less without a match on the African continent and enjoys a lot of monopoly power, it doesn't need oneworld and is better off playing both sides. Or all three if you want.
Also, SA seems to have a proprietary computer system incompatible with oneworld's and would need - like JL by the way -- substantial investment into upgrading their systems.
Sep 29, 2003 | 1:42 pm
#7
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Oceanside, NY USA
Posts: 1,128
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mhtaipei:
The question was would the "fit" in oneworld, not if they want to or not. I have just completed an airline alliance study focussing on oneworld, and worked closely with some people from the local SA office.
SA would fit perfectly into oneworld, i.e. Oneworld would have a lot to gain from SA.
However, as was pointed out above, as long as SA is more or less without a match on the African continent and enjoys a lot of monopoly power, it doesn't need oneworld and is better off playing both sides. Or all three if you want.
Also, SA seems to have a proprietary computer system incompatible with oneworld's and would need - like JL by the way -- substantial investment into upgrading their systems. </font>
The question was would the "fit" in oneworld, not if they want to or not. I have just completed an airline alliance study focussing on oneworld, and worked closely with some people from the local SA office.
SA would fit perfectly into oneworld, i.e. Oneworld would have a lot to gain from SA.
However, as was pointed out above, as long as SA is more or less without a match on the African continent and enjoys a lot of monopoly power, it doesn't need oneworld and is better off playing both sides. Or all three if you want.
Also, SA seems to have a proprietary computer system incompatible with oneworld's and would need - like JL by the way -- substantial investment into upgrading their systems. </font>
Sep 30, 2003 | 4:57 am
#8
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Austin
Posts: 4,635
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by glenngpr:
I am curious if you evaluated other North American carriers as part of your study. I'd like to know if AS or HP make any sense.
</font>
I am curious if you evaluated other North American carriers as part of your study. I'd like to know if AS or HP make any sense.
</font>
HP on the other hand is not a good fit. They are in the process of gearing up to compete with WN.
Sep 30, 2003 | 11:57 pm
#9
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,027
AS yes (network-wise), HP never (business model-wise). That's my off-the-top-of-my-head comment. Unfortunately, our little EMBA study did not include an analysis of AS or HP. The only other potential entries for oneworld we analysed were TG and JL, the former being so unhappy in *A, the latter featuring a computer system so old it'll cost them 4 years profit to pay for upgrades.
Mar 4, 2004 | 8:59 am
#10
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: MUC
Programs: LH Sen // HH Dia; Bonvoy LTTE
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SA today announced to join STAR. LH will be the sponsor to support a fast membership in the alliance.
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Short overview: KLM FD, LH M&M
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Pictures from hotel stays
Basic Hotel stays/nights/points calculator
Short overview: KLM FD, LH M&M
Mar 7, 2004 | 9:18 pm
#12
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by og:
That'll make the QF/SA code shares an interesting issue. Dancing with the enemy?</font>
That'll make the QF/SA code shares an interesting issue. Dancing with the enemy?</font>
Mar 7, 2004 | 9:22 pm
#13
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I hope this wakes up OW. They need to seriously go after Emirates.
People here have mentioned JAL, but how would they coexist with CX already in the alliance?
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"Rows 50 and above are business seats for those with infants" - gfowler-ord-1k
SkyTeam - "The whatever's leftover Alliance"
People here have mentioned JAL, but how would they coexist with CX already in the alliance?
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"Rows 50 and above are business seats for those with infants" - gfowler-ord-1k
SkyTeam - "The whatever's leftover Alliance"
Mar 8, 2004 | 3:10 pm
#15
Join Date: Nov 2003
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by christep:
If BA, IB, AY, EI & LX (all of whose main hubs are closer together than HKG & NRT) can co-exist then I don't see why it would be difficult for CX and JL to do so.</font>
If BA, IB, AY, EI & LX (all of whose main hubs are closer together than HKG & NRT) can co-exist then I don't see why it would be difficult for CX and JL to do so.</font>