I am planning a oneworld RTW trip and I need you experts to verify the itinerary below.
I do not know when I will be doing this trip, but the dates given I just out in to help me out in the
planning.
I will book it via American Airlines in New York, probably
right at a CTO in the city and not over the phone. I want to do this whole thing in person.
Does anyone know how many miles and qualifying points this would net if I happened to be just a basic American Airlines
AAdvantage Member and booked everything possible under an AA codeshare number?

Thanks.


DATE NAME OF TRANSPORT NUMBER OF FLIGHT/TRAIN DEPART DEPARTURE TIME ARRIVE ARRIVAL TIME TYPE OF TRANSPORT CLASS OF SERVICE
06.15.01 IBERIA IB 6250 JFK 06.15 PM MAD 07.25 AM +1 B 747-200 FIRST
06.16.01 BRITISH AIRWAYS BA 457 MAD 12.20 PM LHR 1.45 PM B 757 BUSINESS over land via train throughout Europe
07.06.01 BRITISH AIRWAYS BA 109 LHR 09.15 PM DXB 07.15 AM +1 B 777 FIRST
07.10.01 BRITISH AIRWAYS BA 108 DXB 08.45 AM LHR 01.30 PM B 777 FIRST
07.10.01 BRITISH AIRWAYS BA 155 LHR 05.00 PM CAI 10.55 PM B 747 FIRST
07.12.01 BRITISH AIRWAYS BA 154 CAI 07.35 AM LHR 12.00 N B 747 FIRST
07.12.01 CATHAY PACIFIC CX 250 LHR 06.35 PM HKG 01.20 PM +1 B 747-400 FIRST
07.17.01 CATHAY PACIFIC CX 504 HKG 09.10 AM NRT 01.55 PM B 747-400 FIRST
07.19.01 CATHAY PACIFIC CX 501 NRT 10.55 AM HKG 03.10 PM A330-300 BUSINESS
07.19.01 CATHAY PACIFIC CX 711 HKG 04.00 PM SIN 07.40 PM B 777-200 BUSINESS
07.22.01 CATHAY PACIFIC CX 710 SIN 08.05 AM HKG 11.50 AM A330-300 BUSINESS
07.22.01 QANTAS QF 128 HKG 09.35 PM SYD 08.25 AM+1 B 747-400 FIRST
07.28.01 QANTAS QF 431 SYD 12.00N MEL 01.20 PM B 767-200 BUSINESS
07.30.01 QANTAS QF 414 MEL 08.00 AM SYD 09.20 AM B 767-200 BUSINESS
07.30.01 QANTAS QF 115 SYD 10.00 AM AKL 02.55 PM B 747-400 FIRST
08.03.01 QANTAS QF 40 AKL 06.45 AM SYD 08.15 AM B 767-300ER BUSINESS
08.03.01 QANTAS QF 11 SYD 01.55 PM LAX 10.25 AM B 747-400 FIRST
08.07.01 AMERICAN AA 911 LAX 01.30 PM MIA 09.29 PM B 767-300ER FIRST
08.13.01 AMERICAN AA 1262 MIA 01.35 PM JFK 04.40 PM B 767-200 FIRST
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
1 trans-Atlantic segment, 5 Europe/Middle East segments, 1 EU-Asia segment, 4 Asia segments, 4 SouthWest Pacific segments, 1 trans-Pacific segment, 2 North America segments
EXTRA FIRST USD$450.00
SEGMENTS BUSINESS USD$300.00
/STOPOVERS ECONOMY USD$100.00
All dates and times are local

[This message has been edited by STAM4NICK (edited 04-18-2001).]

You have a few problems and some odd (imo) routings.

First, begin this on the phone. All the cto will do is call the rtw desk and do what you can do at home. The process is loosely you call the rtw, wait several days for tariffs to return a price, and go and get it ticketed. Also, I might suggest going through BA. A reliable source has said that they are quite a bit easier to deal with than AA, and AA has been a nightmare for me.

Codeshares are not allowed. Doesnt matter if it is a codeshare for another OW airline. Book it in that airlines code.

I might be wrong, but I think Europe is only 4 segments max. In this case, I wouldnt take IB, I would take BA to London. BA intraeurope business class isnt very good anyway.

Dubai is in the middle east. Cairo is in the middle east. You can only do one middle east run, so you will need to drop one.

Use CX from HKG to SYD if you can make a flight fit.

You need to do some serious open heart surgery on your itinerary, especially your dates. At your last stop, all segments terminate. For instance if you went oHKG-oNRT-HKG-oSIN-HKG-SYD, where the o is a stop, you will be hit with an extra segment fee because in Singapore you lose any unused segments. So they charge for the SIN-HKG. If you went HKG-oNRT-HKG-oSIN-oHKG-SYD you wouldnt be hit. I didnt look if you have any others like that, but you need to look. Mmmm...I see in Sydney you have the same problem.

Assuming that they will allow this itinerary, you will be charged at least $2000 more because of the routing problems.

Times and planes arent important, where dates and routes are.

I am in a hurry to get off the computer, but redo it and repost the new itinerary (please w/o the other info). Unless, of course, you dont mind the additional charges. I suppose I just assume not. Also, if you are milage running, you can do a na, eu, au, ai, na run and bank more miles.

Good luck...

you've got to start this via the phone. they take your itinerary and send it to the rate desk for pricing which can (and most likely WILL) take hours.

they then call you back to let you know what the pricing is. then, if you want to go to a cto, be prepared to wait, as the process of confirming the rate with the rate desk, plus the actual creation (i.e. writing) of the tickets can (and definitely WILL) take hours. as this takes at least one agent out of comission for some time, they may be inclined to push you to the side, for in their minds, this is a fairly complicated process. make sure your cto has more than a few agents, or they may just have you come back later. i did mine at the grand central cto, and i arrived at 5PM. i did have one change that took forever, to make. the cto closes at 7pm, however, that night, i and two agents left at 930PM!!

be prepared!

Not being an expert on all the rules, I can offer a few hints also:

1. Definitly use the RTW desk for AA -- they are the best agents AA has -- and from personal experience, they give the EXP desk agents a run for their money.

2. Sit, relax and have a drink while you do it -- it may take a long time with that many routes.

3. If you are dealing with a NYC CTO -- use the 7th avenue location and ask for Maureen McNally (I think is her last name -- but definitly Maureen) -- she is a great agent who helped me alot with my RTW trip (both a purchased and mileage trip).

4. If you are flexible, drop by the CTO, pay for the ticket and tell them you will come back in 24-48 hours to pick up your physical ticket. It looks like you have 20 or so segments which will require a HANDWRITTEN ticket -- sabre can only handle 16 tickets. Hence -- come back later to pick them up -- the agent will love you.

5. Make sure that your itin. is correct -- if you need to change a segment, it appears that an entire new ticket needs to be issued (we were waitlised for 1st class on a flight that became available. They switched us and I was only going to bring the changed flight coupon (we had printed tickets). I was told they cannot replace just one coupon).

6. Enjoy your trip.

--Jim

Agreed. In many cities that you're visiting, AA has no presense, and if you need to make any changes, BA is much easier to locate.

Not quite true, code share metal operated by other OW airlines are allowed, and is useful to pick up the Finnair codeshare between LHR-YYZ on BA to earn AA miles. I believe you have to start the AY flight in Finland to get this code-share, but if you really want to get BA miles in your AA account, this is the only way.

There is no way out of this restriction, you can't pay the extra segment like you do with the 5 intra-Europe segments. You'll have to drop one them.

I have read this here before with this issue, but have yet to see this in the rules or experience it with my own RTW. In Asia, I flew YYZ-HKG-BKK/SIN-HKG-TPE/TPE-NRT/NRT-HKG-LHR without any problems. Similiarly, HKG-LHR-PRG/WIE-BCN/BCN-IST/IST-LHR-YYZ without issues. In both cases I had intra continent segments after the 3rd stop. I thought the rules was you lose all stop-overs after you've exceeded your segment maximum, not the other way around.

STAM4NICK:

1. You may consider taking advantage of CX DXB-HKG flight instead of returning to LHR to get out of Europe. It will save you a segment fee.
2. Sign up for the Platinum challange so that you may earn 100% bonus on base miles once you've earned 16,000 points.
3. Unless you really like to fly and wanted to earn points, SIN-SYD direct is faster than SIN-HKG-SYD

The codeshare thing is interesting, because they were absolutely firm on no codesharing on the ticket when I bought mine. Maybe a recent change or something that is only enforced by certain agents?

The same with the segment restriction. I can say that AA will absolutely charge. They nailed me on one or two, also for HKG, actually. I didnt want to stay in HKG, and I didnt enjoy my stay there much. I wanted to go to either Bombay, Surabaya, or Singapore (to go to Malaysia). In retrospect, I should have paid the segment fee because the amount I spent in HKG and the fee would not have been terribly different than going to Indonesia or Malaysia for a week.

S4N, you will find that your fare is going to directly depend on who is in tariffs that day, and how much coffee they have had. I have seen in the past, though, that AA is generally a lot more strict on the rules than others have said that BA is. The only thing I "got away with" was two transcontinental sectors in the US, but it was probably also because it was part of a ticket change and they jacked up my ticket badly enough that my number of transcons was the least of their concerns. Otherwise, they nailed me for *everything* they possibly could. When I get back, I will write a detailed account of my dealings with AA and how much hell I went through. The RTW people are fine, but they are nothing more than a gobetween for you and tariffs. Its tariffs you need to worry about. I had to yell at tariffs in JFK and quote all the rules for them because they wanted $6000 additional from me. It was a pathetic little crowning achievement to first actually talk to tariffs as a pax, and second to actually have them admit that they were very wrong and very sorry. Its the little things in life that do it for me...

Ironically, I have had the exact opposite experience with AA on this rule about losing segments after your final stop.

Last year, I booked a rtw in HKG with CX (using my travel agent), and they tried to nail me for this on the North American portion of the routing, where my 3rd stopover was other than an int'l gateway. At the time, I was sure I was right and CX was wrong and called AA. They confirmed my interpretation of the rules, but CX still wouldn't bend.

At the end of the day, I had CX write the ticket without issuing me a coupon for the disputed segment. When I got to the U.S., AA said no problem, and gave it to me at no extra charge.

Good point about the paucity of AA offices in some of these locations. Technically, any of the oneworld airlines are supposed to be able to make a change for you, but in practice this is pretty difficult. If your ticket is issued by AA, CX agents won't have access to your entire record in their computer system, for example-- so it can take a long time.

There is a way around this, however. I call the AA RTW desk from anywhere in the world, have them make the itinerary changes, and then go the office of the next carrier on my itinerary for the reissue. In this manner, everything supposedly gets communicated to the appropriate airlines computer systems, and the reissue becomes much easier.

In any case, it would be prudent to confirm your itinerary upon ticketing with each airline. There have been reports on this board of instances in which pax have had tickets issued by AA showing confirmed reservations on BA and/or CX and BA and CX having no knowledge of the reservation.

This happened to me in Bangkok a couple of weeks ago. AA changed my reservation on CX, AA computer showed the flight as confirmed, but it didn't show up in the CX system. We just happened to catch this because CX and AA share back office space in Bangkok and the computer terminals of each airline were located in the same room.

Thanks so much for all of your comments, good and bad. This is really my first time doing anything like this. I usually just let my travel agent do all of that kind of stuff for me. I will keep everything in mind, and judging on how busy my life is already I am sure I will never get around to doing this! Thanks

See http://home.webflyer.com/fewmiles/on...wenotes.html#1

1. WRT codeshares
That being said, there is no reason to book on code-share flights (other than trying to earn trans-atlantic BA miles) as they don't earn any more points or status on AA. The only other reason would be to re-qualify for elite status which requires a minimum of 4 AA segments, which I imagine code-shares counts.

2. WRT segments after stopover
Yes, it sures sounds like you can only fly inter-continental segments after your third stop. I don't know how I did it then, as I did not stop over in both CX's (HKG) and BA's gateway cities.


[This message has been edited by hsi.chang (edited 04-19-2001).]

Duoe

[This message has been edited by hsi.chang (edited 04-19-2001).]

S4N, I wouldnt give it up so quickly. What you need to do is to make sure it is right the first time. Make sure its bulletproof. If so, then tariffs and ticketing will be a breeze. At that point, go, dont make changes unless you have to, dont lose your ticket, and drink a margarita for all of us.
But you are off to a good start, and even though its a long itinerary, it isnt terribly complicated.

This itinerary would work fine if the o's are stops and the x's are transfers. The only thing you are doing is dropping Dubai (which I have heard is very expensive and over rated) and changing the order of things.

JFK-oMAD-xLON-oCAI-oLON-xHKG-oNRT-xHKG-
oSIN-oHKG-xSYD-oAKL-xSYD-oMEL-oSYD-oLAX-
oMIA-oJFK

You might also consider,

JFK-xLON-oMAD//AMS-xLHR-oCAI-oLHR-
xSYD-oAKL-xSYD-oMEL-oSYD-xHKG-oSIN-xHKG-
oNRT-oHKG-oLAX-oMIA-oJFK.

With this route, you would be mostly on CX and BA, and all on the big busses. You will probably have to run in Business Class between Hong Kong and Singapore, and maybe between HKG and Narita. Also you will be in Biz for the NZ and Melbourne flights. Otherwise, you are in true first class. The only thing I could see you possibly getting nailed on is the newish rule about the transits in London and Hong Kong. I dont know the exact rule, so someone else can say if its a problem.

The only other thing I would suggest would be to change Singapore to Bali (DPS). I havent been to Singapore, but the consensus seems to be that unless you are using it as a jump point for Malaysia, it isnt all that interesting. I have been to Bali and absolutely loved it.

WRT segments after stopover: my understanding from a conversation with the AA RTW desk is that intercontinental trips without stopovers count as an intercontinental trip, not as segments.

Example: BKK-HKG-LAX-PSP without any stopovers would not use any segment credits in Asia or NA.

I'm about 25% sure on this but this would explain how HKG_Flyer1 got his free segments after the stopovers.

Perhaps there is not steadfast answer, just the luck of the draw on who makes your reservation...

RE codeshares:

What are the OW codeshares from NA to LHR using BA metal but another carrier's code?

I only know of AY - http://www.oneworld.com/pressroom/re...ls.cfm?dID=143

[This message has been edited by hsi.chang (edited 04-20-2001).]

I've never been able to get this Finnair codeshare to show up unless I ask for an onward Finnair connection-- somewhat similar to some of AA's codeshare flights within Asia (you can't book using the AA flight designator unless you're connecting on AA to the U.S.).