PaulSEA1

Thank you hsi.chang for the great web page!

A couple of questions. First the rules page say that backtracking is not possible then it lists several exceptions. These include asia-africa and asia-pacific.

Is the following allowed?
LAX-HKG-SYD-HKG-JNB-HKG-LHR-LAX...

This involves a lot of backtracking through HKG. I would think that you would not be able to return to a continent after you've left but if the above is possible then I'm wrong.

The brochure says that you cannot retrace your steps. If they count HKG as retracing what about this itin:

LAX-NRT-SYD-HKG-JNB-MEL-LHR-LAX...
No retracing but lots of legal (?) backtracking.

indogulf

you can do what you have stated however with the recent enforcement/interpretation of the "two transfers" per city maximum rule you may not be able to transit HKG so many times.

But it really depends on where you ticket, which airline you use, and how good your travel agent is at getting them to overlook this rule.

Having said this you could fly directly to SYD from LAX and then go upto HKG and eliminate the first HKG stop. As for your second proposed itin - i'm not sure that QF offeres a MEL - JNB flight??

Your overall itin isnt so difficult so you shouldn't have problems rearranging it a bit to get to the places you want.

Markie

My experience is that they will only let you backtrack from North to South America and back.

Somewhere else was posted that they will allow you to back track Africa to Europe but when I tried this it was disallowed.

hsi.chang

I can't see this "2 transfer" rule anywhere. I know with my personal OW RTW, I am transiting HKG 3 times (no stop-overs), but I agree that the originally posted itenerary should be acceptable as per the printed rules WRT backtracking. As well, I was earlier told that some of the OW airlines are more "gullable" in booking RTW tickets that "bend" the rules (The one that should have a 'U' in it's name but does not).

indogulf

The rule about bactracking is:

F)TRAVEL MUST BE IN A CONTINOUS EASTBOUND OR
WESTBOUND DIRECTION WITHOUT BACKTRACK

EXCEPT:

1)WITHIN CONTINENTS IS PERMITTED EXCEPT: NORTH AMERICA-WHERE A BACKTRACK BETWEEN HAWAII AND CONTINENTAL USA/CANADA IS N O T PERMITTED.

2)BACKTRACKING IS NOT CONSIDERED WHEN BETWEEN:

NORTH AND SOUTH AMERICA; EUROPE/MID EAST AND
AFRICA; ASIA AND AUSTRALIA; ASIA AND AFRICA.


as for the two transfers rule - it is there on the new rules summary. i'll have to get a copy to post the exact details.

i know this from exp as my last ticket was not approved b/c of 3 transfers at LHR. however as I mentioned you may be able to get an agent to "overlook" this rule. (i.e. in India BA at BOM disallow more than 2 transfers but BA at DEL permit it)

lonman

on my current, rtw, i am about to fly through hong kong for the FIFTH time, as i added three additional segments in asia. however, when i was booking i wanted to go from scl to asia, and i was not allowed because i would have to go back through the us. i also was not allowed to go back through asia from australia to europe, so i had to book a flight that was direct, even if does stop in asia for refueling.

once again, consistency abounds.

PaulSEA1

This seems to conflict with two points:
1. OK to backtrack between NA and SA.
2. Cannot go through any point more than twice.

What airline did you book on?

It sounds like what will be allowed is highly dependent on who you talk to, when, and how much negotiating you do.

mjb

Hsi.chang or anyone else experienced in OW RTW booking- Any suggestions on a travel agent (or other resource) to use to book a trip out of Toronto departing in approx. two weeks.

Thanks for any suggestions.

ChrisMoss7

In the two original itineraries, the rule that is being broken is that you can not enter or exit any continent more than once. An exception is NA ( but only if you are going NA - SA - NA - ??? and from Asia - AUS - Europe (via Asia) or the opposite Europe to Australia (via Asia ) - then on to Asia. Also, I think the "same flight number from EUR - AUS" has been canned.

Back in December, I had NA - SA - NA - SA - NA approved by AA. I decided it wasted too much time and opted not to do it. As for going from EUR - AFR - EUR, I would bet that no US or UK resv team ( ie calling the RTW number) from any airline would allow that. I tried for weeks before I ticketed my flight and it didn't happen. I was trying to get LHR - SEZ (Seychelles) - LHR - JNB and they shot that down really quick every time I asked.

I do agree that all the rules are bendable if you don't speak to (and if they don't call) someone that deals with RTW's often.

MJB - I would recommend BA's phone resv. or AA's. AA priced my ticket in a few hours and hand wrote 34 segs in 4 hours, but when I made a change, it took 8 hours to redo the ticket.

Over the period of the trip, BA made 3 changes - 2 of which had more than 16 segs (which is supposedly the most AA and BA's computers can print out) - each of which took no more than an hour. One of them was in BCN with two agents that had never seen a RTW ticket before. They read part of the fare rules, typed in the changes and away we went with a new paper ticket.

[This message has been edited by ChrisMoss7 (edited 08-29-2000).]

hsi.chang

The 16 segment limit is not a OW thing, but a Sabre thing. Since BA does not use Sabre, they probably does not have that issue.

Good point CM7. If you plan more than a 3-continent RTW trip, don't use Sabre agents (AA RTW Desk, American Express Travel Canada, etc), but use someone that does not have to write the tickets by hand. But CM7, what would have happened if you changed your itenerary at an AA only airport ? As well, BA would have more ticket offices around the world than the other OW airlines, thus should make any changes much easier.

mjb: I used AA RTW desk. You can find the phone number in the "Notes" page of the RTW price chart, they would be good to call to check prices and ask questions, but try to book the ticket itself with BA Canada.

mjb

Thanks for the advice ChrisMoss7 and Hsi.Chang. I will call the AA RTW desk and let you know how it all works out.

ChrisMoss7

I know the answer to that question all to well. The answer is BAD THINGS

Good point about the Sabre thing. I am not too sure what BA uses but I do remember talking about splitting the ticket in LHR. She even showed me where she did it in the fare calc.

Here is what AA told me about more than 16 segs. If you try to print more than 16 ses by spliting the fare, you can get double charged. For example, a 30 seg ticket costs $6000 total. If AA tries to split the ticket into 15 segs of $3000 each, your credit card may get charged $6000 twice. I was then informed by 3 people that it may take 6 months to have the billing reversed.

As for splitting the ticket after it has been paid for, AA did that too. The MIA airport ticket counter spent 1 hour typing in the 4 segs I needed changed, 1 hour getting someone to refare it and 6 hours trying to print it. Eventually they split the ticket and the fare calc was non existent. The restrictions box said "RTW 17 segs." They were clueless.


Now BA did fine. They split the ticket and had the fare calc put in within an hour all three times. They were on top of things and worked hard to make things easy. FYI...I used a CTO in London, LHR airort, and BCN airport for the BA changes.

In retrospect, I would stick with BA all the way especially if it is complicated.