QR on ex-JNB/CPT DONEx
Feb 10, 2016 | 1:10 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: AA (EP), Hilton (Diamond), Marriott Bonvoy (Titanium)
Posts: 9,138
QR on ex-JNB/CPT DONEx
I've been booking ex-JNB/CPT DONE4/5s for years, but I've never used QR at all, and am not sure I understand the rules regarding DOH on an ex-JNB/CPT ticket.
Previously, I've always had the first intercontinental flight be JNB-HKG or JNB-SYD, and the last LHR-JNB. If I instead start with JNB/CPT-DOH-xxx (perhaps Asia or Australia/Pacific), does hitting DOH mean I touched Europe and can't go to Europe at the end? E.g., could I do CPT-DOH-HKG at the start, and LHR-DOH-JNB at the end?
(I'm looking to avoid both QF and BA in J, after being increasingly frustrated with both over the years.)
Previously, I've always had the first intercontinental flight be JNB-HKG or JNB-SYD, and the last LHR-JNB. If I instead start with JNB/CPT-DOH-xxx (perhaps Asia or Australia/Pacific), does hitting DOH mean I touched Europe and can't go to Europe at the end? E.g., could I do CPT-DOH-HKG at the start, and LHR-DOH-JNB at the end?
(I'm looking to avoid both QF and BA in J, after being increasingly frustrated with both over the years.)
Feb 10, 2016 | 2:22 pm
#2
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,904
Rule 3.2.2 states that for an itinerary,
Africa-Middle East-RTW-Middle East-Africa
One of the visits to Middle East must be a transfer without stopover between Africa
and the previous/next continent.
The key is to go thru DOH both times with the proviso that 1 of the stops thru DOH must be a transit. Can't do JNB-DOH-...LHR/MAD-JNB.
The reverse routing of JNB-DOH-EUROPE-RTW-DOH-JNB is OK as well. Seems that BA does not want passengers going thru LHR 2 times when S.Africa is involved.
Africa-Middle East-RTW-Middle East-Africa
One of the visits to Middle East must be a transfer without stopover between Africa
and the previous/next continent.
The key is to go thru DOH both times with the proviso that 1 of the stops thru DOH must be a transit. Can't do JNB-DOH-...LHR/MAD-JNB.
The reverse routing of JNB-DOH-EUROPE-RTW-DOH-JNB is OK as well. Seems that BA does not want passengers going thru LHR 2 times when S.Africa is involved.
Feb 10, 2016 | 5:12 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: AA (EP), Hilton (Diamond), Marriott Bonvoy (Titanium)
Posts: 9,138
Rule 3.2.2 states that for an itinerary,
Africa-Middle East-RTW-Middle East-Africa
One of the visits to Middle East must be a transfer without stopover between Africa
and the previous/next continent.
The key is to go thru DOH both times with the proviso that 1 of the stops thru DOH must be a transit. Can't do JNB-DOH-...LHR/MAD-JNB.
The reverse routing of JNB-DOH-EUROPE-RTW-DOH-JNB is OK as well. Seems that BA does not want passengers going thru LHR 2 times when S.Africa is involved.
Africa-Middle East-RTW-Middle East-Africa
One of the visits to Middle East must be a transfer without stopover between Africa
and the previous/next continent.
The key is to go thru DOH both times with the proviso that 1 of the stops thru DOH must be a transit. Can't do JNB-DOH-...LHR/MAD-JNB.
The reverse routing of JNB-DOH-EUROPE-RTW-DOH-JNB is OK as well. Seems that BA does not want passengers going thru LHR 2 times when S.Africa is involved.
Feb 11, 2016 | 5:06 am
#4
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,687
Rule 3.2.2 states that for an itinerary,
Africa-Middle East-RTW-Middle East-Africa
One of the visits to Middle East must be a transfer without stopover between Africa
and the previous/next continent.
The key is to go thru DOH both times with the proviso that 1 of the stops thru DOH must be a transit. Can't do JNB-DOH-...LHR/MAD-JNB.
The reverse routing of JNB-DOH-EUROPE-RTW-DOH-JNB is OK as well. Seems that BA does not want passengers going thru LHR 2 times when S.Africa is involved.
Africa-Middle East-RTW-Middle East-Africa
One of the visits to Middle East must be a transfer without stopover between Africa
and the previous/next continent.
The key is to go thru DOH both times with the proviso that 1 of the stops thru DOH must be a transit. Can't do JNB-DOH-...LHR/MAD-JNB.
The reverse routing of JNB-DOH-EUROPE-RTW-DOH-JNB is OK as well. Seems that BA does not want passengers going thru LHR 2 times when S.Africa is involved.
Be aware that IB recommences flights MAD-JNB in August and CX commences flights MAD-HKG in June. See posts 30 and 33 in this thread - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onewo...-services.html
Apr 23, 2016 | 4:59 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: AA (EP), Hilton (Diamond), Marriott Bonvoy (Titanium)
Posts: 9,138
The bolded part is incorrect. The wording of the relevant rule is:Such a routing will satisfy rule 3.2.3 - provided there are no segments between the Europe and Middle East Zones. It will allow stopovers in both the Middle East and in Europe if desired.
Yes, the routing is valid.
Be aware that IB recommences flights MAD-JNB in August and CX commences flights MAD-HKG in June. See posts 30 and 33 in this thread - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onewo...-services.html
Yes, the routing is valid.
Be aware that IB recommences flights MAD-JNB in August and CX commences flights MAD-HKG in June. See posts 30 and 33 in this thread - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onewo...-services.html
Apr 24, 2016 | 12:12 am
#6
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,687
I wanted to book: CPT-DOH // DOH-AKL // AKL-HKG-HKT // HKT-HKG-DFW-SAN // SAN-DFW-GCM // GCM-CLT-JFK-LAX-LHR-BCN // BCN-DOH-CPT. I phoned Mindpearl directly, hoping they could book, hand-rate, and issue it all at once, but they said it had to be sent to the AA RTW desk for approval and to Tariff for pricing. Mindpearl told me the AA RTW desk insisted the routing was invalid, that I could not transit DOH twice, and were referencing rule 3.2.3. I pointed out that the wording just before the 3.2.x table says One of the following backtracks is permitted (bolding added), and that my routing matched rule 3.2.2. Mindpearl agreed and went back and forth with AA RTW a few times and finally just issued the ticket themselves. I hope I don't run into problems with changing dates and applying upgrades. I don't understand why the AA RTW desk couldn't see the rule the way it seems obviously to be written.
)How did you pay for the ticket? I ask because there have been reports of non-SA credit cards being rejected by Mindpearl/AA (or rather people being charged the ex-US price if they want to use such cards).
It is sad and frustrating to see the AA RTW desk still having trouble with the backtracking provisions for Africa. I gave up on them last year (see the first post in this thread - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onewo...cpt-done5.html).
I ticketed with BA (by having the first flight CPT-JNB I was able to use the online tool).
However when I later wanted to change my intra-Europe/Middle East segments, I ended up having a battle with BA to get it done (see post #73 in the above linked thread). I eventually got the change done - but I had to write a detailed email to BA, which got passed to both the RTW team and the Fares team.
If you do have difficulties down the track, feel free to pm me and I will forward you a copy of the email I sent; it might be helpful.
Aug 14, 2016 | 9:23 am
#7
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 132
This was the closest thread i could find so i hijack this one.
I start DONE4 with MPM-DOH flights and I will stay in DOH couple of days before flying second leg to HEL. Then I `am going to take couple months break before continue Europe - NA - Asia. Questions:
-What is northest place i can end my ex-MPM trip (because after that i will fly to Finland and really don`t want to go back to MPM)
-Because i have made stop in DOH way out of South Africa can i stop anywhere when i return from Asia (because i have use middle east and europe?)
-Can i route myself somehow from asia through europe and skip last leg?
Thank you!
I start DONE4 with MPM-DOH flights and I will stay in DOH couple of days before flying second leg to HEL. Then I `am going to take couple months break before continue Europe - NA - Asia. Questions:
-What is northest place i can end my ex-MPM trip (because after that i will fly to Finland and really don`t want to go back to MPM)
-Because i have made stop in DOH way out of South Africa can i stop anywhere when i return from Asia (because i have use middle east and europe?)
-Can i route myself somehow from asia through europe and skip last leg?
Thank you!
Aug 14, 2016 | 1:05 pm
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: AA (EP), Hilton (Diamond), Marriott Bonvoy (Titanium)
Posts: 9,138
Firstly, congrats on getting your itinerary ticketed (and I'm impressed with the mileage earning of ...DOH-AKL-HKG...)
How did you pay for the ticket? I ask because there have been reports of non-SA credit cards being rejected by Mindpearl/AA (or rather people being charged the ex-US price if they want to use such cards).
It is sad and frustrating to see the AA RTW desk still having trouble with the backtracking provisions for Africa. I gave up on them last year (see the first post in this thread - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onewo...cpt-done5.html).
I ticketed with BA (by having the first flight CPT-JNB I was able to use the online tool).
However when I later wanted to change my intra-Europe/Middle East segments, I ended up having a battle with BA to get it done (see post #73 in the above linked thread). I eventually got the change done - but I had to write a detailed email to BA, which got passed to both the RTW team and the Fares team.
If you do have difficulties down the track, feel free to pm me and I will forward you a copy of the email I sent; it might be helpful.
)How did you pay for the ticket? I ask because there have been reports of non-SA credit cards being rejected by Mindpearl/AA (or rather people being charged the ex-US price if they want to use such cards).
It is sad and frustrating to see the AA RTW desk still having trouble with the backtracking provisions for Africa. I gave up on them last year (see the first post in this thread - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onewo...cpt-done5.html).
I ticketed with BA (by having the first flight CPT-JNB I was able to use the online tool).
However when I later wanted to change my intra-Europe/Middle East segments, I ended up having a battle with BA to get it done (see post #73 in the above linked thread). I eventually got the change done - but I had to write a detailed email to BA, which got passed to both the RTW team and the Fares team.
If you do have difficulties down the track, feel free to pm me and I will forward you a copy of the email I sent; it might be helpful.
After the ticket was issued, I had AA apply upgrades, so they reissued the ticket. Since then no one at AA has mentioned the backtracking issue.
Aug 14, 2016 | 11:35 pm
#9
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,687
This was the closest thread i could find so i hijack this one.
I start DONE4 with MPM-DOH flights and I will stay in DOH couple of days before flying second leg to HEL. Then I `am going to take couple months break before continue Europe - NA - Asia. Questions:
-What is northest place i can end my ex-MPM trip (because after that i will fly to Finland and really don`t want to go back to MPM)
-Because i have made stop in DOH way out of South Africa can i stop anywhere when i return from Asia (because i have use middle east and europe?)
-Can i route myself somehow from asia through europe and skip last leg?
Thank you!
I start DONE4 with MPM-DOH flights and I will stay in DOH couple of days before flying second leg to HEL. Then I `am going to take couple months break before continue Europe - NA - Asia. Questions:
-What is northest place i can end my ex-MPM trip (because after that i will fly to Finland and really don`t want to go back to MPM)
-Because i have made stop in DOH way out of South Africa can i stop anywhere when i return from Asia (because i have use middle east and europe?)
-Can i route myself somehow from asia through europe and skip last leg?
Thank you!
The fare rules define the continents, and "Africa" does not include the countries of North Africa (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt and Sudan - these are defined to be in the continent of Europe/Middle East)
The rules allow you end anywhere in Africa (as defined); some of the countries that are furthest North are Ethiopia, Eritrea, Seychelles from DOH and Senegal from Madrid. Check out the Oneworld route map to see if there are any others.
Can I stop anywhere when I return from Asia?The rules allow you end anywhere in Africa (as defined); some of the countries that are furthest North are Ethiopia, Eritrea, Seychelles from DOH and Senegal from Madrid. Check out the Oneworld route map to see if there are any others.
You will have already had your stopovers in Europe/Middle East, so your second visit to the continent must be a transfer without stopover, which means no more than 24hrs between the flight in from Asia and the flight out to Africa.
Can I route from Asia through Europe?Certainly you can - route via LHR or MAD and from there to Africa - you can have no more than 24hrs at the transit point. Normally your checked bags will be tagged through to your final destination (in Africa), but if you have a very long or better an overnight transit then when you check-in in Asia you can ask for your bags to short-checked to your European transit point.
If you decide you will 'forget' to take the final flight - then you will want to chose it so that it gives you a long (preferably overnight) transit at your European transit point; and you might want to choose a flight that has low taxes, fees and charges (you don't actually care where the flight is going because you won't be taking it).
If you decide you will 'forget' to take the final flight - then you will want to chose it so that it gives you a long (preferably overnight) transit at your European transit point; and you might want to choose a flight that has low taxes, fees and charges (you don't actually care where the flight is going because you won't be taking it).