TAM and Lan Colombia to join oneworld
 

I have an upcoming flight on LAN Colombia however after booking I read on the AAAdvantage site that LAN Colombia is not apart of One World unlike the rest of the LAN group. After calling LAN I was told I would still receive my American Airlines Miles however AA says I will not. Does anyone know if LAN Colombia has become apart of One World and will I receive my miles with American Airlines?

I am 100K Senator on Lufthansa therefore would normally fly Star Alliance however trying to build my One World sense I also fly out of Miami often.

Any information is appreciated!

TAM to join oneworld
 

Others who have tried to do this before will be able to give you an answer based on their personal experience, but I would suggest that seeing as today's press release says that LAN Columbia will be joining OW later in the year (http://www.oneworld.com/news-informa...ObjectID=54228) that this is further proof that they are not in at present and thus AA would be quite within their rights to not treat your flights as an OW one!

Though note that it says that they are joining in '4th quarter 2013' so if your flight is not for a few months they may, just may be an OW member by then!
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Got the news direct by email from OW and its great news, as is the other parts of the announcement (LAN Columbia etc). Losing this lot (especially to *A) would have been a big blow for OW as a network, gaining all these now really does solidify OW and ensure that it remains a viable and attractive (though not perfect of course, and still with holes to fill) global alliance.^

All that's left is to get Hainan Airlines or Hong Kong Airlines (part of HNA Group)!

there was never any serious possibility for LAN to defect to *, although I can recall some individuals pretty adamant that even in case of TAM switching they would revert to * after 2 years with LAN in tow. You have to admire the length on which they went to argument this possibility.

Probably if Hainan wants to join they'll have to sell Hong Kong airlines as CX would never approve HU with Hong Kong to join oneworld

For most brazilians it is not a good move. It surely would happen, since Lan bought Tam and is a part of OW.
But we lost so many good companies, specially for Europe, where we have flights of Lufhtansa (Frankfurt/Munich), Swiss (Zurich), Singapore (Barcelona), Tap (many cities in Brazil). Now we are left with Iberia and British...

Airberlin, do you mind?

Also geographically speaking Finnair and S7 are European airlines last time I have checked.

Maybe the mod can move your thread to the aa forum as your question involves the earning of miles with the AAdvantage program. AA currently does not allow credit for lan colombia although this will probably change in the future.
See also:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...-lan-peru.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...lombia-4c.html

AB, AY, and S7 don't fly to Brazil...

I have merged the two threads regarding Lan Colombia's and TAM's joining Oneworld.

Members are reminded that questions or comments regarding a specific airline's FFP should be directed to that airline's forum.

Gardyloo
Oneworld moderator

Passengers can connect with these airlines in Europe after their flight from South America on JJ, LA, AA, BA or IB. That's how an alliance works

Is it clear if JJ is joining as a member or if LAN's membership is being redefined as LATAM? Basically will LATAM have two members the way IAG has BA and IB or will they be one member like the new AA (AA+US)?

Two seperate brands I suppose. Like BA and IB.

AA is different as it will be a complete merger with US brand to be discontinued (as now it seems to be the case)

And the last time I checked flights from european companies that are served in Brazil............ (no more comments)

Brazil is a booming economy with thousands os people travelling around the world. It was already difficult to find award tickets having Lufhtansa, Swiss, Tam, Tap, Singapore (Barcelona), Tam itself, Turkish and Air China (Madrid) when ones want to go to Europe. How about just having Iberia and British Airways? Not to mention that LH offered Frankfurt and Munich daily from Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro, and TAP flies to 6 or 7 cities throughout Brazil.

The main problem was always the transatlantic seats offered. And now the availability will be way less than before.
The only good part will be for flying to USA with American Airline, which flies to/from a lot of brazilian cities without the need of conexion.
Oh.. and we also lost Air Canada.... :/

OK these two and US Airways which will follow as the result of American/US Airways is a definite boost to OW - but *A who has so far been considered the kick--s alliance is losing a little traction.

As someone who flies JJ much due to regular flights to Brasil and who has pooled his miles into *A via United, TAM joining OW is really an unknown but potentially huge blow. First, won't get the 3 bags per person now that I'll be flying a different alliance once in Brasil though I guess that won't be such a big deal. Second, saved so much money booking through JJ when flying UA metal. Third, miles won't get me to my final destinations now. This news appears to be a big disappointment...

Perspective
 

It's all in how you look at it. If you are dedicated UA flyer, I can see your point. I, OTOH, am a dedicated AA flyer so this just thrills me. I will get miles on my intra Brazil travel which will be great. I think the bigger issue is the effect on Brazilian travelers who will have more of an adjustment to make. As a flyer, I hope there will be adequate premium inventory available for award redemption Brazil-Europe but from the company's perspective I hope they can sell a lot of that inventory too. With only two major national airlines now, I wonder how much Brazilian carriers will devote to their loyalty programs.

While I'm sure that some Brazilians may be upset at losing direct Star Alliance flights to Frankfurt, Munich, Lisbon, Zurich etc., Oneworld offers the single most important destination for BUSINESS travelers: London.

While I travel much more for leisure than business, there is just much more opportunity to have cooperation between airlines that fly to global powerhouse cities.

Sure from a mileage accrual/redemption, award availability, fuel surcharge and airline variation perspective, it may not be positive, but LATAM is trying to be a profitable business, so I can't blame them for it.

Europe (London) and the powerhouse of South America (Sao Paulo) together just makes sense. Add to that the powerhouse cities of (New York, LA and Chicago) in the US and then (Hong Kong and Tokyo) in Asia, it seems only fitting that LATAM join Oneworld. While I admit that Oneworld needs to focus on the up-and-coming powerhouse cities in China, having direct flights to secondary cities just doesn't cut it. And frankly Star Alliance's cities in Europe (and many in the US) are unfortunately, secondary.

TAP might follow if IAG (unlikely) or Qatar (more chances) decide to take it over. Even if I think at the end they'll be acquired by a star member (Avianca), there's the possibility for them to change in favor of OW.
I'd personally be very enthusiast as OW frequent flyer, anyway I recognize for * it would be another big loss

Actually there's a a JJ/TAM daily flight from São Paulo to Heathrow in their new 77W.

It sure makes sense what you say, but speaking about destination for BUSINESS travelers you have to think what countries Brazil have stronger business ties to begin with. China is the main one nowadays.US is the very second best. Not sure about England. Nevertheless I still think that SA was better for business people down here.

I cannot believe people here would rather have Hong Kong airlines over CX

lets replace the larger and better airline in the alliance with a minuscule badly managed one!!!!!- totally logical

agreed- while Oneworld is smaller in secondary cities- they dominate the big powerful financial cities and the other alliances well- don't!!

* choose to rely on connection through their overcrowded and dysfunctional european hubs to reach other destinations. You may thank Lufthansa for their asinine insistence on the subject, that made impossible getting LAN on board without triggering a huge antitrust probe on both sides of the ocean, something that both Chilean and Brazilian authorities basically have reckoned well on time. Don't really understand your remark about China business ties, a quick search shows * Chinese willing to travel with TAM have to transfer at MXP, and no direct flights are scheduled as of now.
Reality is the best option for TAM development was joining OW, period. */LH did nothing to develop your home market and in the end they had to find external members to avoid being rendered irrelevant on the whole South American market. I understand your frustration as a * diehard supporter, but really the blame on the situation is pretty clear for me, and it lies to LH policies.

Agree! ^^^

It looks like star is very unlucky with Brazilian market. first Varig now TAM. Wonder what will happen to Avianca Brazil once they joins star...:cool:

You can get an Air China flight to São Paulo. Not codeshare. I think the route is Peking - Madrid - São PAulo. So there you go.
The reality is that Lan bought TAM, and therefore is controlled by it. Since Lan has a major role in OW when it comes to South America, it was more than clear that this was the path TAM would end up in (but actually, Latam C.E.O. said earlier in 2010 that TAM being in Star Alliance was for the best interest of the company, but it was not acceptable).
I think you have a point in what you said, but at the same time you are not considering the majority of people that use the airline, which are brazilian people. And this is the point. It may be better some people, but it will be bad for many many others. I am not a diehard fan of any alliance. The thing is that SA was and still is the best option for us. Being business or leisure. And if you talk about overcrowded and dysfunctional european hubs, that's because you've neve been in any major brazilian airport. And I still cannot see how great Heathrow (and Barajas) airport are when comparing with the others. If only Heathrow was Changi, Incheon or even Schipol... but cleary isn't.
If one day OW starts having more companies operating here (right now only AA, IB, BA, Lan) then I will start rooting for it. Right now.. no thanks.

So we are desperately hoping for Avianca to buy TAP so we manage to get SA again in Brazil.

Chilean antitrust authority approved the merger at the condition LATAM won't be part of the same alliance of Avianca-TACA.
TAM announced to leave star last week but unofficially they had already signed their exit when they merged with LAN.
The point is: would you prefer TAM to be into oneworld or to stay unaligned, as these are the two options since LATAM was created?

you are validating my past assertion. No direct flight China to Brazil, if you want keep * as your alliance. Don't think it goes to Madrid, as it is a OW hub. This also represent once more the mess that * has become, thanks to the adherence to LH interests.

some suspect that TAM accession to * was in reality done to push LAN towards the acquisition, given that it happened few months after the entry in *. So it may well be that TAM recognized well in advance that getting in * was not in their best interest, otherwise they would have tried to get in bed with TAP or extend their relationship with US members of *. Cueto has said many things during these years, but he never strayed from the relationship he has with OW.

the point is that * neglected developing SA market, and when LAN bought TAM they were more or less taken with pants down. Through the years LAN has built a strong network in the continent, well connected with US (through AA) and with Europe (through IB). Codeshares are in the work with the asian members of OW, and thats pretty much closes the case. TAM would have been blind had they choose to became LH water porter in the continent.

i think you've never been too much in FRA, or even ZRH. FRA was once a good airport. Only the stubbornness of LH making it a hub for all * flights has made it a zoo. Same could be said for CDG, while the secondary airports such as AMS, ZRH and LIS are not well suited for connections (i talk by experience, having done my lot of transfers and connection through all of them). I agree partially in regard to LHR, since * is currently hosted in Terminal 1 and 2, but given they are gonna be torn down and rebuilt this should improve over time. Anyway he real gem of LHR is T5, that at the moment is the best airport terminal in Europe, and is where both BA and IB are based

in my opinion, having failed once to get their hands to TAP, Avianca have put themselves in a corner. Portuguese will treat another offer from them with suspicion, while giving time to more suitors to come. LH is definitely out of the situation, lest they want be caught in antitrust proceedings, that leaves ST and OW as possible suitors. I can see a lot of synergies for example between IB and TAP, but even QR or again LAN could consider an acquisition or share purchase. On ST side, bar AF/KL for the same reasons as LH, EY or perhaps DL may inject some capital. I do not see TAP remaining in * for long.
The point of this reply is to confute your assumption about * being the best option for Brazil. It was never and will become increasingly the worst option. ST is also ramping their options for SA and at the end they will become the second best option behind OW, once they secure GOL as a member. * was clearly in damage control mode after the Chilean court sentence, but now is clear they will never be able to mount a significant challenge to OW and ST. You will have to thank the incredible shortsightedness of LH for having never attempted to make * the best option for your travels.

you are validating my past assertion. No direct flight China to Brazil, if you want keep * as your alliance. Don't think it goes to Madrid, as it is a OW hub. This also represent once more the mess that * has become, thanks to the adherence to LH interests.

some suspect that TAM accession to * was in reality done to push LAN towards the acquisition, given that it happened few months after the entry in *. So it may well be that TAM recognized well in advance that getting in * was not in their best interest, otherwise they would have tried to get in bed with TAP or extend their relationship with US members of *. Cueto has said many things during these years, but he never strayed from the relationship he has with OW.

the point is that * neglected developing SA market, and when LAN bought TAM they were more or less taken with pants down. Through the years LAN has built a strong network in the continent, well connected with US (through AA) and with Europe (through IB). Codeshares are in the work with the asian members of OW, and thats pretty much closes the case. TAM would have been blind had they choose to became LH water porter in the continent.

i think you've never been too much in FRA, or even ZRH. FRA was once a good airport. Only the stubbornness of LH making it a hub for all * flights has made it a zoo. Same could be said for CDG, while the secondary airports such as AMS, ZRH and LIS are not well suited for connections (i talk by experience, having done my lot of transfers and connection through all of them). I agree partially in regard to LHR, since * is currently hosted in Terminal 1 and 2, but given they are gonna be torn down and rebuilt this should improve over time. Anyway he real gem of LHR is T5, that at the moment is the best airport terminal in Europe, and is where both BA and IB are based

in my opinion, having failed once to get their hands to TAP, Avianca have put themselves in a corner. Portuguese will treat another offer from them with suspicion, while giving time to more suitors to come. LH is definitely out of the situation, lest they want be caught in antitrust proceedings, that leaves ST and OW as possible suitors. I can see a lot of synergies for example between IB and TAP, but even QR or again LAN could consider an acquisition or share purchase. On ST side, bar AF/KL for the same reasons as LH, EY or perhaps DL may inject some capital. I do not see TAP remaining in * for long.
The point of this reply is to confute your assumption about * being the best option for Brazil. It was never and will become increasingly the worst option. ST is also ramping their options for SA and at the end they will become the second best option behind OW, once they secure GOL as a member. * was clearly in damage control mode after the Chilean court sentence, but now is clear they will never be able to mount a significant challenge to OW and ST. You will have to thank the incredible shortsightedness of LH for having never attempted to make * the best option for your travels.

CXBA.. I really like the way you write. It feels almost right IF (and a extremely huge IF) most of the things you said were actually correct. Sorry to say that, but they are not, and I would advise you to either talk to more brazilian people who travels frequently or come here and see for yourself. So that you can really experience the reality and not only politics that may have happen on the other side of the world or hemisphere. I don't want to be harsh at all, but reply after reply it gets clearly that you made your "business man" idea to reach another level. It feels that you are the diehard fan, but of OW (which I could see why).
I said first and will say again. Star Alliance is still the best option for Brazil right now.
I cannot understand what you mean by mess. And why to blame LH? I cannot really get it at all. Management and decisions surrounding their partner companies such as Swiss I can get it, but not the other ones. I don't think Munich airport is crowded or anything but a decent one to be while making a connexion.

"It was never and will become increasingly the worst option"
"You have to thank the incredible shortsightedness of LH..."
"... now is clear they will never be able to mount a significant challenge to OW and ST"

Man.. I raise my hands to you for being so wrong. These phrases I highlighted are just some of parts that made your reply not valid at all .How can you say things like that?
I am not here to defend LH or other company. Man.. it is just reality check! Right now for the millions of brazilian people who travels, specially to Europe, Star Alliance is still the best choice. A brazillian citizen and member of TAM miles program have the choice to choose which airline you want to travel among lots of them, and not only two (terrible Iberia or British Airways with a great service but expensive fuel taxes). IF the airlines that make part of OW decide to fly to Brazil on a regular basis, than ok. But right now getting just two european OW flights a day in the most busy airport in Brazil is rather ridiculous. Can't you see?
I get the love thing for OW that you posses, but man.. you got blinded by it. I would not give a damm about SA if it wasn't to get thing worse here in Brazil by having the main brazilian airline to join a STILL minor (but bigger than Skyteam) alliance. That's it.



Some other quick points:
1-) Air China really flies to Brazil via Madrid - Barajas since 2006. (go check that and see it for yourself... Start complaining about a flight from another alliance getting into OW territory lol)
2-) I fly to Europe 6 to 7 times over a year. Mostly to Portugal, but I usually(and it is so damm good to have choices, you know) go via LH - Munich. I could go by TAP, but I'd rather get the executive class (and sometimes first) experience of this airline ( but I still prefer Swiss). And I can also go to Frankfurt by JJ. Choices, again, you know? When TAP starts updating the whole of their planes (and get the A350) then I will definitely fly with them.
3-) Iberia has marketed their brand (at least here in Brazil) as "cheap to buy, terrible service". So it has such a bad reputation that the majority of people prefer to pay more money and have better flight experiences. Better and more confort interior and better treatment from the crew . Once again, options. Their neighbor TAP is considered better (and has recently updated some of their old A340 interior) by most of the people, and have the advantage of speaking the same language.
4-) With OW, no more direct connections with Africa. I mean South Africa and South African airlines. But OW is so good that if I eventually decide to go there, I can hop on the British on Iberia flight, then make the joyful and wonderful conexion till South Africa. How great is that? But wait I minute, I can also go take TAM to Europe! Problem solved! And no more Air Canada... but hey, American Airlines will probably solve this one.

i think at this point we can agree to disagree. I stand behind what i've say in past posts, and still do not see the advantages for a Brazilian, or South American that * brings. Of course people do have preferences, however because my own company never fell for any alliance gimmick, it was always the cheapest option to travel anywhere and so I do not root for anyone. AF, AZ, LH, TP, CA, BA, CX... you name it and i traveled with. I'd wish your best in continuing arranging your travels with *, but at the same time i think you're losing yourself a lot of opportunities because of your insistence on a single alliance that the current development definitely discounts as the weakest in the region.

I think a lot of Star Alliance Fans are annoyed Oneworld now dominates one Continent( out of 7)

and they know that Avianca Brazil is no replacement for TAM

Fact is Oneworld won in SA

but is still the sore loser in Asia- which is where the fastest rates of growth in traffic

So do not fret- Star Alliance is still a hell of a lot bigger than Oneworld!!
anyways 2014 seems to be a big year for Oneworld- massive expansion

Having one carrier so dominating a continent begs for competition.

By what metric? With the pending changes oneworld is larger by: passengers, revenue, revenue seat miles, available seat miles...

It's pretty clear that by the time JJ finishes moving oneworld will be indisputably the largest of the three alliances and *A will be the smallest.

This is not correct.

Star currently reports approximately 670 million passengers annually. Oneworld reports approximately 341 million. Given that TAM (37 million/yr) and USairways (66million/yr) will switch and adding all pending members for Star and Oneworld, Star will have about 575 million passengers annually while Oneworld will have about 467 million annually. I grabbed these numbers directly from the alliances websites.

The story for revenue passenger miles, daily departures, fleet size and destinations are also similar, Oneworld will make an immense jump and significantly close the gap with Star Alliance and Skyteam. However, Oneworld will still be the smallest by most, if not all, quantifiable metrics.

the crux of my reply was not centered on who "won" or "lost", but the singular insistence on TAM switching as an unwelcome situation for his country at all, when it was clear all along these years that * was a sub-optimal choice for both business and leisure travel. The set of examples he gave was demonstrating this instead of verifying his clear cut conclusion (having LIS as a connecting point to go to JNB, or the example about flights from China to Brazil).
I am also noticing that OW the past two years had had a big stride in terms of members, and almost all of them are coming from *. I hope the trend continues, as I most like a situation when the 3 main alliances are of similar strenght and offerings.

Great few months for Oneworld... MH, UL, QR, US and now LATAM all joining up.

* may well be bigger...but really once this is all finished, who wants to fly to any of their destinations or on any of their airlines? Im quite glad OW stuck to its guns and didnt go inviting anyone and everyone to join up regardless of quality. It seems to now be paying off.

That is right
the only metric Oneworld is the largest is by corporate/premium passenger numbers- which matters most to the airlines

and possibly the ratio of lounges to passengers carried-OW has the highest amount of Lounges