Oneworld's Kangaroo Route
#16
Moderator: Asiana & Qantas Frequent Flyer




Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: STR/SYD/SMF
Programs: QF LTG / P1 , LH LT SEN / HON, OZ LT Diamond +, Marriott LT PT, HH Diamond,
Posts: 15,149
You sure? A year or two ago, a 772-LR did HKG-LHR nonstop flying eastbound, 22 hours. Granted, it was with the prevailing winds. My understanding is that LHR-SYD would be no sweat, but the return might require a stop. Here's what Boeing has to say. 772-LR London Range Map. This assumes three "standard" Boeing installed auxiliary fuel tanks. Seems to me that there would be enough demand to support this flight on a 772 (but I have no hard data and am just guessing). The aircraft is smaller than the 744s and 773s. Eliminating the stop in HKG, SIN or BKK would save hours. Nonstop, cruising at Boeing's published cruise speed of Mach .84, flying time would be 19:05. Flying through either BKK or SIN, including time on the ground, total elapsed time is approximately 22:20.
Ultra long hauls are very difficult to operate from an economics perspective. The reason for this is that the plane needs to carry tons of fuel for a very long time. It is much cheaper to land and re-fuel. This is the reason why some of those long flights (SIN-EWR) have gone all business class. It is just not financially viable. And if fuel prices would rise further then this would expose the company to a huge risk.
And of course a 20 hour flight is nothing you really want to experience in a 10 abreast 777. So nobody wants to be stuck in a plane for such a long time.
Luckily non of the most profitable airlines in the world operate any 777.
Because QF and CX really don't like each other? QF would rather codeshare with EK than get into bed with CX.
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BOS/UTH
Programs: AA LT PLT; QRPC PLT/OW EMD; Bonvoy LT Titanium
Posts: 14,571
This issue is not really about the range of the aircraft. The two main problems are economics and the human factor.
Ultra long hauls are very difficult to operate from an economics perspective. The reason for this is that the plane needs to carry tons of fuel for a very long time. It is much cheaper to land and re-fuel. This is the reason why some of those long flights (SIN-EWR) have gone all business class. It is just not financially viable. And if fuel prices would rise further then this would expose the company to a huge risk.
And of course a 20 hour flight is nothing you really want to experience in a 10 abreast 777. So nobody wants to be stuck in a plane for such a long time.
Luckily non of the most profitable airlines in the world operate any 777.
Ultra long hauls are very difficult to operate from an economics perspective. The reason for this is that the plane needs to carry tons of fuel for a very long time. It is much cheaper to land and re-fuel. This is the reason why some of those long flights (SIN-EWR) have gone all business class. It is just not financially viable. And if fuel prices would rise further then this would expose the company to a huge risk.
And of course a 20 hour flight is nothing you really want to experience in a 10 abreast 777. So nobody wants to be stuck in a plane for such a long time.
Luckily non of the most profitable airlines in the world operate any 777.
#18
Moderator, Hilton Honors



Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: on a short leash
Programs: some
Posts: 71,445
Back to the OP's question, QF and CX compete on both kangaroo route and Australia to Asia.
Codeshares work better when they are complementary not competitors.
#19




Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: country Western Australia
Programs: QF WP(LTS) - AA LTG(1MM)
Posts: 2,857
At least QF has indirectly acknowledged some deficiencies in its Perth international schedules. Tickets to/from PER to HKG and NRT now will routinely permit connections in SIN to CX / JL flights to those destinations respectively. But I do note that to HKG codeshare (ie QF numbers on CX flights) flight numbers are not used, which makes for interesting FF assignments (to AA program) because of the difference in mileage credits on QF/CX flight numbers.
I can only hope that BA will offer AA codeshare numbers SIN-LHR.
Fred
I can only hope that BA will offer AA codeshare numbers SIN-LHR.
Fred
#20
Moderator: Asiana & Qantas Frequent Flyer




Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: STR/SYD/SMF
Programs: QF LTG / P1 , LH LT SEN / HON, OZ LT Diamond +, Marriott LT PT, HH Diamond,
Posts: 15,149
#21
Moderator, Hilton Honors



Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: on a short leash
Programs: some
Posts: 71,445
#22
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold(OWE), QF LTG, MR Plat, IHG Spire, Hertz PC
Posts: 8,156
At least for the HKG-AUS part, if CX and QF were to code-share or set up a joint venture, they would be monopolying and I'm sure the HK and Australian government would not approve that. It's not like what CX does with AA, as AA does not serve HKG, so adding AA-codes on CX's trans-Pacific FLTs is not a problem.
As to how far code-shares between CX and QF can go, I suspect adding CX-codes on domestic Australian / NZ (or perhaps trans-Tasman or to other Pacific Islands) FLTs might be the only possibility in the near future.
As to how far code-shares between CX and QF can go, I suspect adding CX-codes on domestic Australian / NZ (or perhaps trans-Tasman or to other Pacific Islands) FLTs might be the only possibility in the near future.
#23



Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: TPE / HSZ
Programs: CX GO (=SPH), IHG Diamond Amb, Hertz 5*, Accor, Hilton, National
Posts: 7,220
As there is so much competition on these routes, I don't believe a tie up between CX and QF would necessarily be turned down by the competition authorities in either jurisdiction. There would inevitably have to be some concessions, however I can't see that stopping further cooperation or even merging.
Nonetheless, even though I was only talking about the HKG-AUS part, if a code-share is not possible on these routes, I don't see a joint-venture between CX and QF on the entire Kangaroo routes possible, either. They can certainly keep the code-share to FCO and perhaps expand that other non-UK destinations, but definately not LHR.
#24
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ORD & MKE
Programs: Airlines: UA-CO, NH, AA, and DL Hotels: SPG, Accor, PC, and Marriott
Posts: 1,827
At least for the HKG-AUS part, if CX and QF were to code-share or set up a joint venture, they would be monopolying and I'm sure the HK and Australian government would not approve that. It's not like what CX does with AA, as AA does not serve HKG, so adding AA-codes on CX's trans-Pacific FLTs is not a problem.
As to how far code-shares between CX and QF can go, I suspect adding CX-codes on domestic Australian / NZ (or perhaps trans-Tasman or to other Pacific Islands) FLTs might be the only possibility in the near future.
As to how far code-shares between CX and QF can go, I suspect adding CX-codes on domestic Australian / NZ (or perhaps trans-Tasman or to other Pacific Islands) FLTs might be the only possibility in the near future.
#25
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: QFF
Posts: 5,304
They also have competition on the kangaroo route from MH and the middle eastern airlines.

