BadgerBoi

So, what did I say in my post that you disagree with? If I did run Australia's PR I would consider looking at the sort of tourist that I wouldn't bother attracting. Lots of businesses are happy to fire unattractive customers, why wouldn't Tourism Australia feel the same?

EDIT:
(shrug) Like many of my compatriots, I spent one "vacation" overseas last year, and another within Australia. We are blessed with a lot of annual leave here so we have a lot of options that you may not.

I hope that you're not trying to say that all 23 million Australians "vacationed" overseas last year. Because that just wouldn't be true.

Of course, the average South African worker should be paying Sydney prices in his/her supermarket?

bensyd

That's fine, different strokes for different folks. Your previous posts where you complained about everything from McDonalds to tshirts in Target to the speed limits not being appropriate for your level of skill to calling Australia a backwater just comes across as sour grapes. How you can comment on Sydney having spent 18 hours in the city is beyond me, but anyway.

The average tourist in Australia has a high disposable income (the stats are around somewhere) and the average spend is significant, if you can have a better time in South Africa then go for it, the comparison remains a mystery to me. There's nothing wrong with saying "I found Australia too expensive for me and consequently didn't enjoy my stay". I don't think you'd get any arguments that if seeing big game is your thing Africa is where you should go.

iahphx

I think tourists wind up spending more money in southern Africa than in Australia because they stay at very expensive safari camps. It's not necessary to do so, but that's what people think they need to do.

The knowledge of most tourists is not high. Australia's real problem is not that it's a bad destination, just that it's over-rated. Demographics (low population), location (isolated) and history (not much of it) assure that it's something of a backwater -- but that's not how it's perceived in the int'l tourist marketplace. I've been visiting Australia for 30 years now. I think I know it pretty well. It's undoubtedly a better country to live in now, but it's also a blander and more expensive country than it used to be for tourists. I know you don't want to hear this, but it is what it is. Good places to live aren't always great tourist destinations.

bensyd

And you keep coming back. What's the definition of insanity again?

Right, so your now the arbiter of this and we should all just accept your opinion, because if we don't it's for no other reason than "we don't want to hear it".

Anyway, this is a fairly pointless discussion so I'll leave you to it.

BadgerBoi

I'll just wait for the trip report, it should be a ripper...

mandolino

That's what you could call "making a virtue of necessity"!
Whether it's high or low, you'll certainly dispose of a lot of it.

iahphx

Just because a destination is over-rated doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. Yes, if I had to pay $2500, fly in coach for 20 hours, and then pay typical Australian lodging costs, I probably wouldn't hurry back. But since I don't have to do these things, Australia can be a worthwhile stop for me. Besides, I always go into it with an open mind, and I'm going to visit parts of the country I haven't seen before (which are relatively few at this point).

The fact that things are more economical in Australia these days will help. Kind of like an American visiting Canada: when a dollar bought 1.40 loonies, Canada was fun; when it was parity, not so much. Now that the dollar has appreciated again and Canada is again not crazy-price-world, it will be a better destination. If you've ever been to Norway, you will understand this dynamic.

There is also value in visiting and understanding different countries and cultures. Like I don't consider visiting India to be particularly pleasant, but I will likely head back there sometime. BTW, as a tourist, the "shortfalls" of a visit to India are completely different with those of Australia. India is cheap, but not always pleasant. Australia is almost always pleasant, but not enough bang for the buck.

BTW, the NYTimes has an article this weekend, extolling the virtues of a South African visit. This is the type of trip an American traveler might expect to have in Australia, but will actually find in South Africa.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/25/tr...le-span-region

bensyd

Maybe, I think it's a reality of Australia being a long way away and expensive so it's targeted toward people who have money to burn and don't have to hurry back to the office.

The fact that Australia pulls in only ~7m tourists but is one of the top ten countries by tourism revenue says a bit about the average traveller.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings

iahphx

That's an interesting chart. Thanks for sharing it. It certainly seems odd that Australia ranks so high in travel receipts, but not high in total tourist numbers. Obviously, many countries with closer neighbors get more casual tourists; hardly anyone shows up in Australia just for the weekend or such, so the few are apparently dropping big bucks.

I do think the revenue may be high largely because things are expensive in Australia -- and folks tend to stay awhile.

As far as being targeted to affluent travelers, I guess Australia is -- in a way. It's certainly a "once in a lifetime bucket list destination" for Americans. (I've been at least half a dozen times, but that's surely very rare for anyone without family ties.) Australia would largely appeal to older, upper middle class folk (and above) who have the two weeks necessary to come (vacation days are scarce in America). I don't think many people in the USA consider Australia to be a "luxury destination": Americans probably don't think Australians are as affluent and urban as they actually are, so they're not thinking "luxury." It would certainly be interesting to see the comments from returning Americans as to what surprised them about the country. As a "bucket list destination," though, people tend to be satisfied, sometimes regardless of how good the vacation actually is.

mandolino

Plenty of business people go to Australia on tourist visas. While there, they have no choice but to pay the high prices. Once again, making a virtue of necessity. It's not like there's any other option.

Even a backpacker staying in a hostel ends up paying $8-$12 for a pint of beer or glass of wine if they venture out.

bensyd

I think it's been well established that Australia is an expensive place. If you're a backpacker spending that on a pint you're not really trying.

thadocta

Complete and total rubbish. I am from Sydney, in Melbourne for the tennis (so not bein a local I don't know where the specials are) and I just bought a Crown Lager for $5.

Dave

iahphx

I don't recall beer being $8 to $12 -- we're not talking Norway here. That said, to an American, the price of booze in Australia is extremely high. I've been told it's taxes, and that seems logical. Australian wine is significantly cheaper in the USA than in Australia (although I see much less of it these days, because South America has much better value, and recent exchange rates have hurt USA marketing efforts).

High prices make Australia's wine regions significantly less fun to visit. When I travel overseas and visit wine countries, I always bring back a case or two. In the Barossa, I bought a couple of bottles to drink in Australia, but didn't bring any wine home.

mandolino

Please tell us where in Melbourne the pints of Crown lager are $5.

Because even at a bottle shop in Woolworths, i.e not draught in a bar but as cheap as you can normally get, a 375ml bottle of Crown lager is $4.16, equivalent to $6.32 a pint.
Check it out

And we're not even talking about buying a bottle to take home, but having a pint in a bar.

mandolino

Please tell the good folk of FT exactly where and when a pint of beer is cheaper. It will be good info to know. I'm sure folk going out for a beer don't want to waste too much energy in "really trying" to enjoy a social drink, so we'll be grateful for the pointers.