the hidden cost of recent changes
 

I suspect that NWA ignores 99% of the complaining they hear about changes to their FF program. After all, talk is cheap. And if you spend enough time on flyertalk.com you learn that "elite" FFs tend to whine a lot about how special they are. NWA knows that at the end of the day, most FF's will publicly blow hard and threaten to go somewhere else while secretly still flying NWA where they have status, get upgrades and collect bonus miles.

Having said that, and after 12 years with elite status (the last 9 at Plat), I find myself thinking hard about the cost of business travel in this horrible economy. With more layoffs looming, what travel I do will be the cheapest fares (i.e. mostly not NWA/Delta) and I'll put up with the coach seats, goofy connections and crappy schedules. As I probably won't fly enough to make PE anyways, the downgrades to the FF program no longer leave me looking for ways to satisfy my company's travel rules while still flying NWA. Its one of those hidden costs that NWA can't see which is too bad. I enjoyed my years as an elite flyer.

You know, that's pretty much what I put in my goodbye email. Well said.

That would be WN.

But there is more to the story, because WN does not fly everywhere. Thanks to Alfred, inefficient airlines can and do exist, because of fortress hubs. If we still flew city-pairs, this game would have been over long ago.

Many companies, to this day, do not allow travel on non-legacies. They were considered "not safe", "not corporate". My company changed its policy in 2007 and now allows travel on WN.

2009 will be a very interesting corporate travel year. It's way down, some say 50% or more. When enough corporations say "we're buying on price, not on history", DL will pay attention. Of course, they don't really have to with ATL-based F1000 corporations (e.g. Coca-Cola) since DL has it locked down. So, the merriment continues.

As for me, it's simple. I have been an NW WP member since 1984 - 25 years now. Loyal to a fault. I used to fly NW when I could and WN when I had to (mostly day trips, schedule-specific, city-pairs). Now, I fly WN when I can and DL when I have to. It's a simple change, but unless there is a sea change in DL management (going BK would help here) and competitive pricing (no help forthcoming) it's a change I have decided to make.

DL will get $$tens of thousands less revenue from me in the next 12 months, but do they care? Not one whit. Driving NW elites to other carriers is the plan, after all. There is no evidence to the contrary.

That's hyperbolic. DL planners aren't thinking up ways to "drive" NW elites away - what business sense does that make? They are certainly betting that raising prices and gutting benefits won't cause a big revenue hit, though. And they may be right. For all the rhetoric from aggrieved customers, we have yet to see if they vote with their feet.

Anyone who really believed the combined FF program would be "best in class" is naive. The new program is being calibrated to be no better than it has to be.

The new SWU-lite is not great - the 2-7 upgrade window in non full fares is not great.

so all rev mgt has to do is wait until the 2 day window to release upgrade seats (similar to the BF upgrades in F5R0 situations) and the certs are useless...

Wonder how it will work for International upgrades.

Thats what I basically meant... no U space until 2 days out... they you have to burn miles if you want the U/G vs the "free upgrade"

Yea got it.

You really think they are that rash to do that? On second thought, they are.

What they underestimate is that this PE has no problem going to CO/AA for my biz travel from now on. Esp with status match.

Has anyone gotten a reply
 

Anyone gotten a reply besides important people like thezipper :D

HA!

I wish I was important... no reply from my e-mail... all that was said is that NW will read our e-mails, they couldn't promise any replys tho...

Why not? They very easily copied and pasted that nice canned response to everyone's TTU about the situation. :p

Deleted Post (request filled)

Thanks.

Still waiting for a response to my TTU. Sounds like with more changes on the way I'll save my email til the fleecing is done, if that ever occurs.

I got a response from Robertson; "understanding" my concerns, end of bad news, good news on the way, give us a full year... it will be great, etc.

Hee hee! It will be great, alright...great for the DL beancounters. He 'understands', good news on the way...I just have to laugh.

Anyone foolish enough to bet on the come with Jeff R, sign here...

You are exactly right, bearX220. The program is no better than it has to be. That's the rub. We NW elites are used to an excellent program. So, when DL institutes its 'no better than it has to be' program, it is a loss for us.

As for publicly stating 'best in class', that was stated by no less than Richard Anderson. Take it up with him. Walk into Virginia Avenue and call him naive.

Best of luck.

Yada, yada, yada.

LUV begins in 45 days.

Yep, heard that before!

But who's counting ? :D

I am.

You might be if they hadn't decided to terminate the North Star line only half way to you.

NW avoided my comments because I did not ask a question
 

OK. Here are two direct questions.

1. The change fee for an award for Platinum members. I may agree that a last minute cancel of an award is taking space from another member (go ahead and charge for a replacement within 14 days or so). Changing an award and charging is wrong. Please answer why? I'll give you an example why it is not only wrong but your reasoning is not being honest. I have an award from MKE-BUD-VCE-PRG-MKE in October. For now I have a six hour layover in Paris and get to BUD pretty late. A much better option would be MKE-JFK-BUD on DL. Since your company has not opened up any ward space I'm stuck with an inferior routing. I'm sure there is not even one person on that flight at this time. On the same award I'm still open from BUD-VCE. Malev has not opened up an award for that connection. I'm sure they will sometime in the future. In my example, if everything works out for me later on I'm adding space for MSP-CDG and getting an award that no one is using, because it is not even an option for JFK-BUD. On the missing Malev connection I'm not even returning anything just getting an award.

2. Why being an NW platinum and getting the equivalent of DL platinum PMU's am I getting a requirement for using the award between 2 and 7 days? The DL platinum memebrs get to use them at any time.

Thanks,
Steve
NW XXXXXXXX


-----Original Message-----
From: Northwest Airlines [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:15 PM
To: thepla
Subject: RE: ET-Other: (KMM19825533V55243L0KM)

Dear thepla,

Thank you for contacting Northwest Airlines.

We are not seeing any question. We only show statements and opinions. If
you have a direct question please let us know so we can reply correctly.

If you have any additional questions, concerns, or need further
assistance, please let us know.

Sincerely,

Wendy Wright
WorldPerks Customer Service Center

I just sent your second question too - will let you know if/when I hear anything.

no response here.

I sent TTU asking specific questions about "what is 'best in class'" about any of the changes that have been instituted yesterday, but still have not gotten any response, not even the "we got your TTU" and will respond later.

Is TTU now broken?

TTU isn't broken but it took them ten days to get back to me with a legitimate complaint (not about the new Delta). They have been very generous - something refreshing from the new Delta who seems to want to take away anything which is left.

Same here -- didn't even get the canned - "we got your ttu" - interesting... ok not interesting - LAME !!!

Wrote Bob Soukup - got a short reply
 

I wrote Bob and I'm impressed to say he replied. It was short though.

Basically the theme of my letter was: 'We made a deal when I flew last years EQM for this year's program. I realize the business reality requires some changes but the uncertainty of how far those changes are going isn't helping my trust in our business relationship. I think its time to commit to the terms of a new program for 2009 ASAP.'

His reply was:
You should have (or soon will) receive your elite kit for 2009 which has the program details. We are reviewing to see if there are things we can improve given the response from customers.

[edit] - Wow - this is my 1000th post![edit]

Guess that means we're getting terms very soon now.

1) If the "things we can improve" mean 2 free award changes, fuggetaboutit

2) by the time they formally announce the improvements, so many elites will be gone, hopefully it will hurt them enough financially that they will have to seriously reconsider all their recent changes.

Award fee insanity
 

I have to agree that although there's lots of bad things in the announcement I got today, to my mind the greatest de-valuation is in the "only 2 tickets a year skip the reboking / redeposit fees".

Especially on International routings, it's vital to have the flexibility that award tickets (used to) offer.

If DAL only withdraw one portion of the today's announcement, then that would be my choice.

i would choose the 2-7 restriction on the swu

I just e-mailed them to express my extreme displeasure at the chopping of SE bonus miles in half from 50% to 25%.

No, I'm not expecting an answer ;)

Response
 

In a response from NW / DL. Please read this she claims the change fee is $100 for an award. Am I mistaken wasn't it changed to $50?
_______________________________
Thanks for the reply.

I do have a few other questions and comments.

First UA and AA both have 500 minimums for elite members.

For best in class you lowered the 125% for NW to 100%, if you were actually doing best DL would have gone up to match NW.

You mentioned $50 fee is now $100 fee. It was my understanding that the fee was proposed to go up to $100 but was lowered back to $50.

The two allowed changes for awards:

If I change the same award 5 times does that count as 1 of the 2 allowed or would I be at 5 changes, hence 3 over the limit?


Now I want to give you why I believe this is totally unfair. (the award part).

I have an award that I pulled in December MKE-CPH-VCE-PRG-MKE for October.

Even though this award was pulled 10 months in advance the only space available was with AF. When I first pulled the award no space was available from CPH to VCE. I now have that in place. If that was to count for one of my two changes I would be very upset, why; it was not my fault. For me I enjoy getting new passport stamps. If I could end up with JFK-CPH on DL I get a passport stamp from CPH (a new one). Once again you had no availability for a standard award for a flight that probably did not have person assigned to that aircraft, either bought or using an award. Eventually that space may open up, why should I get penalized to change to that routing so I can get the passport stamp?

I'm not trying to threaten anything because I do not believe DL cares about me but I will never fly DL again accept when using an award once I fly enough to use my remaining vouchers in my account.

I believe, and time will tell, many people that were loyal to DL or NW will take their business elsewhere. I do not see the benefit for being an elite member with your airline anymore. I say this not only for what you are doing today, after all the promises for best in class that you needed to say to get government approval, but what you will do to further devalue the program in the future.

Once again thanks in advance for your comments and please respond to my question pertaining to how the number of changes is figured per award. I think many people in my situation would enjoy knowing that answer.

thepla



-----Original Message-----
From: Northwest Airlines [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:03 AM
To: thepla
Subject: RE: ET-Other: (KMM19931682V28613L0KM)

Dear thepla


Thank you for sharing your feedback regarding the recent changes to the
Worldperks program.

Please be advised that both Northwest and Delta Airlines are committed
to quickly aligning policies and fees for customers traveling on
Northwest and Delta operated flights. Delta's commitment is to align
the SkyMiles and WorldPerks programs during 2009 with the goal of
creating a single, best-in-class and fully integrated loyalty program
for our combined members by year-end.

During this time of change, we ask that you focus on the positive
attributes of our programs. First, both SkyMiles and WorldPerks offer
unlimited complimentary upgrades to all elite members-a benefit that
more than 70% of elites state is the most important to them. This
benefit is now available to both SkyMiles and WorldPerks members when
traveling on both airlines.

In addition, Delta remains the only major airline to offer SkyMiles and
WorldPerks members the ability to earn a minimum of 500 base and elite
qualifying miles on all flights. Many airlines have moved from the
minimum of 500 miles to actual flown miles for general members.

Please note that we have removed the Saturday night stay requirement for
award travel booked on Northwest and Delta operated flights. In
addition, we have announced a three tiered award availability which will
give our members more award flexibility.

Due to the feedback we have received from our members, we are aware
there is concern over some of the changes to our program. Delta has
announced that the award change/reissue fee has been increased from $50
to $100. This fee is intended to recoup a portion of the lost revenue
we experience when customers change their tickets from their originally
intended itinerary. Please note that this fee is very competitive in
the industry.

Effective March 1, 2009, the redeposit and reissue fee for award travel
will no longer be waived for Platinum Elite members in an effort to
better preserve award seat availability for all SkyMiles and WorldPerks
members. Many of these award seat bookings are held until the last
minute and canceled or never flown because the fee to change or cancel
seats is waived. As a result, these seats go unused and are not
accessible by all other customers.

Mr. Plotnik, we realize you may not agree with all of the changes to our
program, but I hope this gives you some insight as to why these changes
were implemented.

Delta Airlines is now the largest airline in the world and is reshaping
the aviation industry as the only U.S. airline to offer a fully global
network for mileage earn and redemption. This will enable our customers
to fly seamlessly to more than 375 worldwide destinations in 66
countries.

Thank you for this opportunity to review your concerns. As always,
thank you for your continued loyalty and patience as we move forward to
create America's premier global airline-Delta Air Lines.

Sincerely,

Ellen S. Anderson
WorldPerks Service Center

Was this a response to an email to this address, or a TTU? I wrote only to this address... and still haven't received a response. I wrote within minutes of the Zipper posting this. You'd think a double platinum would rate some sort of response, but maybe not.

I will send in a complaint, but I really don't think Delta management wants to be confused by facts since their minds are already made up. The best thing to do is just switch airlines.

Besty in class? REALLY??? SERIOUSLY???
 

My beef really is them referring to this as best in class. How do you promote "We are making our FF program the best in class" AND THEN LOWER ALMOST EVERY PERK? Seriously, take away mileage for Elites, add fees for awards, blah, blah, blah... REALLY, what improvement has happened for Worldperks customers? Worldperks must be really cocky if they think they can take away perks and have their program become best in class. I will continue to fly NWA because I really have no other option for direct flights everywhere and it irritates me that they know this! :)

One more thing I found out at the DL forum, the level of award availability depends on the traveler, not on the account where the miles come from. So only a Plat flyer would have access to Plat award inventory but not a regular flyer using miles from a Plat account.

This really affects me since I hardly fly on awards myself, too busy to rack up the EQM! Friends and family will have much lower chance of success, even if the miles come from my account. CO is starting to look better and better .

Looks like 'best in class' is going to involve another degradation in benefits for us NW flyers :mad:.

Sorry to jump into this thread so late in the game. I just have to say kudos to the NW side for hearing my pleas. The PU503 systemwide upgrade certs given to PE are just useless (not applicable to lowest 3 fare classes). Being a Hawaiian resident, I got used to the PU464 certs since it upgrades any fare class into full F or J buckets.

So, after 2 attempts of pleading, I got 4 PU464 certs (same as GE members in Hawaii) awarded to me. Moral of the story: NW will listen to their elite members.

And sadly DL doesn't. Unfortunately for NWA Elites, the clock is sadly ticking.