Why should I avoid DL?
Nov 13, 2003, 1:34 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Surf City, USA
Programs: DL-Dirt AA-Plat 0.1MM AMTK-Select IHG-Gold
Posts: 333
Why should I avoid DL?
I have read many posts on this (the NWA) board contianed within other topics that I should avoid DL.
From my point of view (a domestic only business/occasional leisure traveler that almost always flys in the cheap buckets) DL is now my #2 airline.
As an NW WP elite looking to go somewhere NWA doesn't go (or goes at an inconvient time/frequency), I have a choice of flying CO or DL. CO will give me .5 EQMs and an entry in CO's EUA lottery (assuming there is a first class cabin). DL will give me a coach seat and 100% EQMs on any fare bucket. To me the EQMs are more valuable than the entry in CO's (flawed?) EUA lotto.
Is this just antiSkymiiles sentiment ooozing into this board? Is my reasoning flawed? Any other thoughts?
From my point of view (a domestic only business/occasional leisure traveler that almost always flys in the cheap buckets) DL is now my #2 airline.
As an NW WP elite looking to go somewhere NWA doesn't go (or goes at an inconvient time/frequency), I have a choice of flying CO or DL. CO will give me .5 EQMs and an entry in CO's EUA lottery (assuming there is a first class cabin). DL will give me a coach seat and 100% EQMs on any fare bucket. To me the EQMs are more valuable than the entry in CO's (flawed?) EUA lotto.
Is this just antiSkymiiles sentiment ooozing into this board? Is my reasoning flawed? Any other thoughts?
Nov 13, 2003, 1:58 pm
#2
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Programs: Delta
Posts: 852
Until just recently, CO was 100% EQM and DL was 50% EQM for WorldPerks members on cheap fares; then they switched.
The general idea, I think, is that you should avoid DL and CO, but if you need to fly one of them, your logic makes sense as to how to choose (possible upgrade vs. 100% EQM).
The general idea, I think, is that you should avoid DL and CO, but if you need to fly one of them, your logic makes sense as to how to choose (possible upgrade vs. 100% EQM).
Nov 13, 2003, 2:53 pm
#3
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: CLE,OH
Programs: UA 1K 3MM, AA Plat, F9 Elite, the later two thanks to Jeff $, HHdia, Mgold, WynDia, Choicepl, IHGDia
Posts: 1,405
If you choose to upgrade DL is terribly strict with upgrades. The upgrades are not free and are mileage based and if your flight connects you must use their upgrades for each route. UA is kinda enough to upgrade using the lowest mileage point to point while DL will charge you for total mileage in the event of a connection. DL FC is not as comfortable as CO and their inflight food is OK at best.
Nov 13, 2003, 3:00 pm
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: He who dies with the most miles wins!!
Programs: WorldPerks Demoted again to SE, DL 3.1MM Hilton Diamond, SPG Gold
Posts: 11,674
Speaking as a DL PM with 3.5M miles who just switched to NW:
If your only choice is DL, fly them. The problem is (and I know nothing about CO) DL has a terrible coach product.
Seating is tight, I am 6"1 and I am crammed in. My wife is 5"4 and is just as cramped.
DL is also converting many routes to RJs, not my favorite form of transportation.
If your only choice is DL, fly them. The problem is (and I know nothing about CO) DL has a terrible coach product.
Seating is tight, I am 6"1 and I am crammed in. My wife is 5"4 and is just as cramped.
DL is also converting many routes to RJs, not my favorite form of transportation.
Nov 13, 2003, 3:47 pm
#5
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: SAN Diego (Hillcrest); formerly LEXington, KY; still like the nym
Programs: DL Platinum; Marriott Lifetime Platinum; married to Hilton Elite
Posts: 3,028
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">DL will give me a coach seat and 100% EQMs on any fare bucket</font>
If you were so fortunate as to be accumulating Delta SkyMiles, those cheaper fares would only earn you 50% (M)EQMs. That is what DELTA would give you....
Nov 13, 2003, 3:55 pm
#6
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 5,075
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NWAMileageSlave:
Is this just antiSkymiiles sentiment ooozing into this board?</font>
Is this just antiSkymiiles sentiment ooozing into this board?</font>
Nov 13, 2003, 5:48 pm
#7
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: SAN Diego (Hillcrest); formerly LEXington, KY; still like the nym
Programs: DL Platinum; Marriott Lifetime Platinum; married to Hilton Elite
Posts: 3,028
keithguy: some portion of what goes on in FlyerTalk is those who have experienced giving advice to those who haven't yet experienced.
Anyone who wants to volunteer to experience the new SkyMiles program, please give us an update in three or six months.
What you value in a program, how it compares, what you get compared to other programs you have been part of.
I have been in SkyMiles. For what I value, currently, Northwest WorldPerks is MUCH better. But go try it for yourself, please.
------------------
"We know you have a choice of airlines" ... the most important frequent-flyer words you heard this week.
Anyone who wants to volunteer to experience the new SkyMiles program, please give us an update in three or six months.
What you value in a program, how it compares, what you get compared to other programs you have been part of.
I have been in SkyMiles. For what I value, currently, Northwest WorldPerks is MUCH better. But go try it for yourself, please.
------------------
"We know you have a choice of airlines" ... the most important frequent-flyer words you heard this week.
Nov 13, 2003, 6:18 pm
#8
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,688
In fact, quite a lot of the negative posts about DL on this forum have been people who have little or no experience with Delta saying, "I'm elite on NW, DL treated me badly" or at least wildly inconsistently.
If given the choice between an upgrade and 50% EQMs on CO and DL coach and 100% EQMs, MY voice of experience would say, "Take the upgrade."
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email on profile
If given the choice between an upgrade and 50% EQMs on CO and DL coach and 100% EQMs, MY voice of experience would say, "Take the upgrade."
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email on profile
Nov 13, 2003, 6:20 pm
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Surf City, USA
Programs: DL-Dirt AA-Plat 0.1MM AMTK-Select IHG-Gold
Posts: 333
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mikey1003:
Speaking as a DL PM with 3.5M miles who just switched to NW:
If your only choice is DL, fly them. The problem is (and I know nothing about CO) DL has a terrible coach product.
Seating is tight, I am 6"1 and I am crammed in. My wife is 5"4 and is just as cramped.
DL is also converting many routes to RJs, not my favorite form of transportation.</font>
Speaking as a DL PM with 3.5M miles who just switched to NW:
If your only choice is DL, fly them. The problem is (and I know nothing about CO) DL has a terrible coach product.
Seating is tight, I am 6"1 and I am crammed in. My wife is 5"4 and is just as cramped.
DL is also converting many routes to RJs, not my favorite form of transportation.</font>
Nov 13, 2003, 6:38 pm
#10
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: CVG
Posts: 155
If I am one of those whose mentions of DL is included here, I wouldn't exactly say I hate DL. I would say NW works better for me. I'm a low-tier elite level flyer and, since I fly out of a DL hub city, upgrades were never possible at that level (everybody and their brother is DL platinum out of here) and fares are considerably more expensive.
The space-available upgrades are very nice on NW, though I expect them to be a thing of the past out of CVG once NW a) retires the Avros and b) more closely aligns with DL. This combination of events means that I will either be flying DL metal or smaller ERJs/CRJs.
As far as "cramped in coach," I don't think NW's Y product is any less cramped than DL. So the upgrades make the difference on my coach fares. I've flown both airlines' business classes, and I do prefer NW WBC.
I defected from DL the year before they made the big changes to Skymiles, and I've flown on them for years (being a CVG captive). NW basically challenged me to silver and won me away from DL with the experience. So I can't count myself in the "I hate DL" crowd, though I do think their program changes that occurred the year after I last had elite status with them would have caused me to look elsewhere if I hadn't already moved on.
Hope this helps clarify my position.
Obviously, for future travel, at my elite level, I will choose the metal that earns me 100% EQM where possible, but I've got no axe to grind against CO either. I'll be flying on CO metal next month.
The space-available upgrades are very nice on NW, though I expect them to be a thing of the past out of CVG once NW a) retires the Avros and b) more closely aligns with DL. This combination of events means that I will either be flying DL metal or smaller ERJs/CRJs.
As far as "cramped in coach," I don't think NW's Y product is any less cramped than DL. So the upgrades make the difference on my coach fares. I've flown both airlines' business classes, and I do prefer NW WBC.
I defected from DL the year before they made the big changes to Skymiles, and I've flown on them for years (being a CVG captive). NW basically challenged me to silver and won me away from DL with the experience. So I can't count myself in the "I hate DL" crowd, though I do think their program changes that occurred the year after I last had elite status with them would have caused me to look elsewhere if I hadn't already moved on.
Hope this helps clarify my position.
Obviously, for future travel, at my elite level, I will choose the metal that earns me 100% EQM where possible, but I've got no axe to grind against CO either. I'll be flying on CO metal next month.
Nov 13, 2003, 9:00 pm
#11
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: SEA
Programs: DL DM, former NW PE
Posts: 934
IMO, the best of all possible worlds for you would be:
Fly on an NW ticket, using NW metal to a DL hub (upgradable with 100% EQM). Then take the final leg on a DL RJ or Embraer (with no upgrade possible for anyone). You get full EQM, upgrades on the NW portion, and lose nothing on the last leg.
Whether this works for your cities - can't say on the basis of your post. But give the "mixed" itinerary with codeshares a try.
Fly on an NW ticket, using NW metal to a DL hub (upgradable with 100% EQM). Then take the final leg on a DL RJ or Embraer (with no upgrade possible for anyone). You get full EQM, upgrades on the NW portion, and lose nothing on the last leg.
Whether this works for your cities - can't say on the basis of your post. But give the "mixed" itinerary with codeshares a try.
Nov 13, 2003, 10:07 pm
#12
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 5,075
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by LexPassenger:
keithguy: some portion of what goes on in FlyerTalk is those who have experienced giving advice to those who haven't yet experienced.
Anyone who wants to volunteer to experience the new SkyMiles program, please give us an update in three or six months.
What you value in a program, how it compares, what you get compared to other programs you have been part of.
I have been in SkyMiles. For what I value, currently, Northwest WorldPerks is MUCH better. But go try it for yourself, please.</font>
keithguy: some portion of what goes on in FlyerTalk is those who have experienced giving advice to those who haven't yet experienced.
Anyone who wants to volunteer to experience the new SkyMiles program, please give us an update in three or six months.
What you value in a program, how it compares, what you get compared to other programs you have been part of.
I have been in SkyMiles. For what I value, currently, Northwest WorldPerks is MUCH better. But go try it for yourself, please.</font>
I too have been in Skymiles (technically, I am still a member, so I am still in it). However, the comparison here is not SkyMiles against WorldPerks, but rather Delta Airlines against Northwest Airlines, as carriers, not their frequent flier programs.
It appears that many fear the SkyMiles changes (and OnePass changes) threaten to bring on similar WorldPerks changes (if it hasn't already done so). This has resulted in a rather intense (unjustifiably so, in my opinion) hatred of all things Delta.
Nov 14, 2003, 8:38 am
#13
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 306
I have had the opportunity to fly all 3 (NW/DL/CO) several times in the last 6 months and definitely prefer NW.
My DL experiences were not negative, but the lack of free upgrades means having to travel in coach, which I find only marginally better than CO/NW (a little better thanks to widebody service). If I can get an exit row (I love row 26 on the M80) it's not so bad. Their 767 widebody service is decent. The food for sale program irks me, but the sandwiches are very good and you can use a CC, except when the hand-held computers aren't working. IFE is okay, but domestically I really don't care much about IFE. FAs are okay, not any more or less friendly than the typical airline. GAs...just okay.
The Crown Rooms are on the whole inadequate as compared to World Clubs, with President's Clubs somewhere in the middle. The snack choice is granola bars and snack mix. They are smaller than WC and feel much more crowded. DL hubs aren't state of the art, but aren't awful.
I've been treated fairly as a NW elite. I call to add my WP number, make any seat changes and check in at flysong.com, which is convenient. I've never had a problem using priority check-in or priority boarding even when I'm with a companion who is non-elite.
Overall, I'll fly DL when the price is significantly cheaper than NW as long as the 100% EQM stays in place.
I find CO is hit or miss. I've encountered great FAs and GAs and awful ones (about 50/50). 1-800-WEDONTCARE sucks! I've even had a CS agent tell me that I'm the reason CO can't make money "people like you" is the phrase she used. I had already booked and had some questions about potentially making a flight change for free under the "wartime rules". She was wretched!
Upgrades are great as a NW elite because we even get them before CO elites as a result of their lousy EUA situation with no manual upgrades.
I find coach on most CO planes to be confining. The IFE is okay and the food is decent. FC is nice and I find meal presentation better than NW. FC service in general falls a bit short of NW more often than not. I'm not a fan of the leather seats, but do like the wings. I also wish there were more seats in CO F, like NW F (NW has at least 16, whereas CO may have as few as 10).
What will keep me from CO in the future is the 50% EQM. Flying CO will only occur with the right combination of price and a guranteed F upgrade. Otherwise, I'll fly Delta where NW is not a viable option.
Finally, my favorite airline overall is NW.
It is a pleasure to call the gold elite line (1-800-WEWANTYOUTOBEHAPPY). They bend over backwards to help me EVERY time I call. As such I always thank them profusely for all of their help and remind them that it is so much nicer than calling CO! They enjoy that.
The FAs and GAs again are hit or miss. Overall, I find FC FAs to be a bit more experienced.
Again, like CO, the coach product on NW isn't that great in my opinion. NW/CO/DL have some of the smallest seat pitch and no E+ type product. Hopefully the introduction of the A330 product will begin to change this. Coach on the DC-9 is especially bad. On the other hand, I really like the cloth seats in F. I find them cozy and find that there is always enough room, especially since it's free! Meal presentation in F could be better, but the food is decent and I always enjoy the dessert. No IFE on domestic flights, but I always am able to occupy myself. Food in coach is marginal, same as CO, but worse than DL. I have not tried NW food for sale though, so that product may be better.
I love the WorldClub. It is by far the best club product of the three hands down! Lots of snacks, premium coffee products, open bar in most locations, clean, spacious, perfect.
NW hubs at DTW and MSP are the best by far. New, clean and lots of great eating/shopping.
Mrs. LUVSWA can't wait to get back to MSP for some shopping...
Overall, my preference is NW not only in product, but also FF program. Now, if I had to abandon this whole alliance, I'd probably fly UA, but that is a different topic.
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Randy
-------------------------
HH Gold; WN CP; NW Gold Elite
[This message has been edited by LUVSWA (edited Nov 14, 2003).]
My DL experiences were not negative, but the lack of free upgrades means having to travel in coach, which I find only marginally better than CO/NW (a little better thanks to widebody service). If I can get an exit row (I love row 26 on the M80) it's not so bad. Their 767 widebody service is decent. The food for sale program irks me, but the sandwiches are very good and you can use a CC, except when the hand-held computers aren't working. IFE is okay, but domestically I really don't care much about IFE. FAs are okay, not any more or less friendly than the typical airline. GAs...just okay.
The Crown Rooms are on the whole inadequate as compared to World Clubs, with President's Clubs somewhere in the middle. The snack choice is granola bars and snack mix. They are smaller than WC and feel much more crowded. DL hubs aren't state of the art, but aren't awful.
I've been treated fairly as a NW elite. I call to add my WP number, make any seat changes and check in at flysong.com, which is convenient. I've never had a problem using priority check-in or priority boarding even when I'm with a companion who is non-elite.
Overall, I'll fly DL when the price is significantly cheaper than NW as long as the 100% EQM stays in place.
I find CO is hit or miss. I've encountered great FAs and GAs and awful ones (about 50/50). 1-800-WEDONTCARE sucks! I've even had a CS agent tell me that I'm the reason CO can't make money "people like you" is the phrase she used. I had already booked and had some questions about potentially making a flight change for free under the "wartime rules". She was wretched!
Upgrades are great as a NW elite because we even get them before CO elites as a result of their lousy EUA situation with no manual upgrades.
I find coach on most CO planes to be confining. The IFE is okay and the food is decent. FC is nice and I find meal presentation better than NW. FC service in general falls a bit short of NW more often than not. I'm not a fan of the leather seats, but do like the wings. I also wish there were more seats in CO F, like NW F (NW has at least 16, whereas CO may have as few as 10).
What will keep me from CO in the future is the 50% EQM. Flying CO will only occur with the right combination of price and a guranteed F upgrade. Otherwise, I'll fly Delta where NW is not a viable option.
Finally, my favorite airline overall is NW.
It is a pleasure to call the gold elite line (1-800-WEWANTYOUTOBEHAPPY). They bend over backwards to help me EVERY time I call. As such I always thank them profusely for all of their help and remind them that it is so much nicer than calling CO! They enjoy that.
The FAs and GAs again are hit or miss. Overall, I find FC FAs to be a bit more experienced.
Again, like CO, the coach product on NW isn't that great in my opinion. NW/CO/DL have some of the smallest seat pitch and no E+ type product. Hopefully the introduction of the A330 product will begin to change this. Coach on the DC-9 is especially bad. On the other hand, I really like the cloth seats in F. I find them cozy and find that there is always enough room, especially since it's free! Meal presentation in F could be better, but the food is decent and I always enjoy the dessert. No IFE on domestic flights, but I always am able to occupy myself. Food in coach is marginal, same as CO, but worse than DL. I have not tried NW food for sale though, so that product may be better.
I love the WorldClub. It is by far the best club product of the three hands down! Lots of snacks, premium coffee products, open bar in most locations, clean, spacious, perfect.
NW hubs at DTW and MSP are the best by far. New, clean and lots of great eating/shopping.
Mrs. LUVSWA can't wait to get back to MSP for some shopping...
Overall, my preference is NW not only in product, but also FF program. Now, if I had to abandon this whole alliance, I'd probably fly UA, but that is a different topic.
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Randy
-------------------------
HH Gold; WN CP; NW Gold Elite
[This message has been edited by LUVSWA (edited Nov 14, 2003).]
Nov 16, 2003, 1:29 pm
#14
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: mill valley, ca, usa
Programs: Northwest Gold, UAL PremExec, Motel 6 Frequent Snorer
Posts: 154
There's another reason for Silver and Platinum Elites to avoid Delta -- they don't get as many bonus miles for Worldperks. WP Silvers get 50% extra for flying NW, just 25% if the miles are earned on Delta. For Platinums the ratio is 125 vs.100. Golds get 100% bonus on either carrier.
Wouldn't matter much on a short hop, but the WP bonus yield is about 1,000 miles better for a transcon on NW, or about 2,000 better to Europe.
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Wright Brothers Were Wrong
Wouldn't matter much on a short hop, but the WP bonus yield is about 1,000 miles better for a transcon on NW, or about 2,000 better to Europe.
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Wright Brothers Were Wrong