But it wasn't too late. From what I gather, the OP still had a chance to keep his seats and take his original flight.

The scenario went, offer of €600, but when a flight was found that could get them back within the amount of time, it was (correctly) changed to €300. Unless I'm misreading earlier posts, the OP (and family) still had the option to not give up their seats at this time. Very easy...don't want the €300, then take the original flight.

and how would that be a better solution?

since one of Yaatri's issues was space for 4 bags in the overhead, per the original post.

So, RichMSN, if we follow that logic :
Yaatri & family gets back on the original flight
Yaatri & family are forced to check 4 bags
Yaatri & family gets NO compensation

Somehow, I think that 300 Euro per person and arriving 45 minutes later [than scheduled] was a better deal. :D

Though, I must admit, Gbadger sums up the options pretty well :)

I can ONLY IMAGINE the thread we would be reading now if Yaatri & family were forced to give up the compensation and take the original flight.

As others have said the OP ended up with a good deal. The rules are clear and if he was going to roll the dice, he should have been aware of the actual rules.

This summer my wife and I were traveling back from MXP-ORD-MSP using delta award tickets. We were at the ticket counter two hours before departure, well within their own time limits, and they gave our confirmed seats away to others who had checked in before us. We were shoved to another line to contend for the attention of two agents who were rebooking four or five flights for about 40 passengers. After 45 minutes, we were rerouted MXP-LHR-ORD-MSP, with our flight to LHR leaving in 30 minutes. The agent told us we should seek the compensation in ORD. We never spoke to any Alitalia employee until we got to the gate as all the check in agents work for the airline. I know better than to leave the airport without the compensation, but I also knew my wife would not stand for me causing a delay that missed our new flight at the end of our 3 week trip. I actually assumed we would miss it, and then I could deal with it, but that was not the case.

In the end, we were only delayed 4 hours, but we found out when we got to ORD that we were standby on the last NW flight of the day, and our luggage had not yet left MXP. Of course, Alitalia had long since shut down their counter at ORD.

Three letters and 10 phone calls to Chicago and New York have still not produced any compensation for me. My wife received 600 euros, but have received nothing that I am owed under the law. I am also seeking additional compensation for the meal we bought during our unplanned 4 hour layover in LHR and travel vouchers for the 1 week delay for my luggage.

It was the perfect crapstorm, and what bothered me most was that Alitalia never sought volunteers. We were entitled 600 euros each, plus meal vouchers and phone calls. I know better than to leave the airport without those things in hand, but I also knew that seeking out Alitalia agents who may or may not have produced the compensation would have caused us to miss the flight, which would have pissed off my wife, and further complicated our return since I had denied the alternate arrangements.

I know this thread is not about me or Alitalia or Delta, but I get so sick of reading about people who make the choice to disrupt their travel plans and then complain because the airline does not accomodate all of their desires. So many flyers want the airline to give them everything, and I have no sympathy when people get greedy and then complain about it on FT. I will be the first to line up for a bump (my wife won't), but I also know that I am subject to be on a different airline, different routes, and I get an absolute confirmed amount before I give up my seat.

My experience this summer so upset me because it was an Involuntary bump, and I would have expected to be treated better by a company that was making the choice for me as to whether or not I would be taking the alternate arrangements.

300 euros equals $445 for a total delay of 45 minutes that you chose to have. They paid you $10 per minute for your trouble. From my perspective, you were well compensated and well taken care of by the ground staff.

When the initial offer was 600 Euros without any qualification, it is bait and switch to change i to 300 Euros 30-45 minutes later.

The initial offer was for 600 Euros, period. It was not made subject to arrival time. The bolded part of your post is besides the point. When the offer of 600 was made and I acceped it, it became binding on KLM. The moment I accepted the ofer of 600 Euros, it became a legal binding contract. KLM BROKE A CONTRACT.

A couple thoughts on this thread...

I've had trouble recently with a VDB where they pushed my ticket to paper, only to undo it and make it electronic again once they figured ot how to push it to DL from CO. The reason they go paper is that the airlines can still mail in the paper stub to ARC to get their $$$ from the other carrier. If the e-ticket push isn't working correctly for any reason, going paper like this will not be a problem.

Another interesting thing that CO does is to give you a form to fillout when you volunteer, asking your name/address so they can put it into the system. That form has a place where the GA writes in the compensation. That way there is a record of it and no need to fight about it later.

To the OP, it definitely isn't "bait and switch" in my book just based on what the term means, but that doesn't mean you weren't misled by the GA. At the same time, I think that the E$300 isn't a terrible compensation considering the inconvenience was flying YYZ-DCA in Y rather than MSP-DCA in F. All in all, a wash in my book. You can complain up the chain, and maybe get some miles or something out of it, but there are much bigger affronts in the world of air travel that are worth pushing on; this isn't one of them.

Exactly. It was a VDB situation and they offered 600. Period. Anything else added to this situation is something not clearly in evidence based on the OP. To offer anything less because the OP will get in earlier, to me, is irrelevant, unless they qualified it saying that it's only 600 because of the time delay they'd face. Or if they said that they would only take them as a volunteer if they didn't need the seats. Which also wasn't mentioned in the OP.

If I'm offered $300 at DTW to take the later MSN flight and then I'm told that it's only going to be $150 because they found a CO flight connecting in CLE that will get me in only 45 minutes later than my original, you're darned right I'll see it as bait and switch. Because it is.

After reading all these replies, does anyone know the common practice for KLM to ask for volunteers when a flight is oversold?

Before taking someone's willingness to volunteer, do they (KLM agents) first need to figure out the possible alternate route and the corresponding compensation? Or they can simply tell the passenger a higher (possibly the common fixed or the MAXIMUM) amount of compensation which could reduce to a lower amount later based on how well KLM can accomendate the volunteers? For the latter one, I feel KLM agents do have the responsiblity to inform the volunteers that the amount of compensation could decrease.

For Yaatri's case, I can feel his complaint because he was first offered EURO 600 UNCONDITIONALLY (misled by the agent or misunderstood the agent) which later reduced to only half. It did fall below his expectation (I bet most of human beings in this situation will not be 100% satisfied but find some place to vent). Still, the KLM agent could have done a better job by informing Yaatri that EURO 600 is the maximum he could get.

Just my two cents

Then you cut the deal and walk away with your original boarding pass in hand. There is no "contract" until you have the compensation in your hand. Would it similarly be a bait and switch if they ask for volunteers and you do, you wait, and it turns out they don't need your seats? Now you have NO money and have lost pre-boarding and overhead privileges. Why don't people whine about that as a bait and switch?

The reason is that once you enter into the process of a VOLUNTARY denied boarding, you lose those rights. That's the risk you take.

Oh there was plenty of whining with the mistake fare to Bucharest. ;). NOw that was real whining.

Dear SchmutzigMSP, it is different for the situation you mentioned above, it is not "Bait and Switch" at all since the agent might have probably informed you that "We might need your seat, sir; so please wait until the last minute to board.". This did happen to me a few times and I did not feel bad at all (I am a statistician and I know the probability thing. :) ).

However, if the agent did give my seat away and changed the compensation with letting me know the possiblity of change first(for example, first offered $300 voucher then later it became a free US48 ticket), I will certainly not be happy and neogeotiate the original offer.

Euro 300 is not a terrible compensation, but neither is Euro200. The point is the offer of 600 was made, it was accepted by me, end of story. KLM does not have the option of changing that at will.

Then the seat shouldn't be given away, should it?

I have your last scenario happen all the time. But it's always communicated to me that it's possible I will have to board with my original seat. Did that happen in Yaatri's case? Doesn't appear so.

But the agent DIDN'T give away the seat, and the OP still had the chance to not accept the terms presented to them! This seems to be getting lost in the shuffle over and over again.

Sorry, I disagree that there is any legal binding contract. This is a voluntary move on your part. Now, I understand that you volunteered thinking that you were going to be compensated €600. However the option to not take the deal was still available when that compensation was reduced to €300. You lost nothing in the process, other than the chance to board ahead of other passengers. I really doubt that there was ZERO overhead space on the aircraft. I have yet to be on a flight where there is no room for any bags whatsoever.

This was done by the book. The book was written so that there is some structure to how these things work. I understand not every passenger has read the book, but it's there for this reason exactly. Both parties can check what the protocol is for a given situation and follow it! In this case, €300 is what is called for, and €300 is what you were offered.

I'm not sure that this is correct. Again, look at the rules, that's why they're there. Does it say somewhere that an airline is EVER required to compensate any higher than a specific situation calls for? If so, you have a case.

One important thing to remember here is that this is not the US. This is Europe. The European rules are very clearly spelled out. Wish they would do the same over here.

If you think you have a case, then here's the organization you should contact:

Inspectie Verkeer en Waterstaat
Postbus 575 NL - 2130 AN HOOFDDORP
e-mail: [email protected]

Let us know how it goes.