Just wanted to let you red tail fliers know that if you frequent DFW, ATL, VPS, LIT and MCI you'll find the mighty avro parked at the gate on some frequencies to MEM from May. At the same time if you fly to JAN, GPT,SDF and some other new ones you'll find exclusive CRJ service to MEM. STL, BHM, BNA have picked up more avro frequencies and based on the fact the company is recalling 16 of our 46 furloughed pilots, the summer schedule is going to look different as well. I couldn't really tell if there were major changes like this in the MSP or DTW system, except the avro returns to LSE. Some other changes are a saab frequency from MEM to CVG and CMH get's a 4th daily and is now 3 CRJ, 1 DC9 - gone is the mid day departure from MEM to CMH on the avro (3pm return to MEM).

As far as the move in CVG goes - it's been put off until October, depending on who you talk to. The space that they will occupy is in terminal 3A where the freighter and the overflow DL jets and ACA 328 jets park. I guess it's currently used for mail sort, so a lot of $$$$ will be sunk to remodel the place into a operations area. They're working on getting the computer systems PARS and AOP friendly. The other issue is the fact that the jetways won't fit a CRJ or Avro, and they cost $107K each to modify (3). Should NW choose not to modify, according to an agent, the station will go all mainline. And then the question is: does NW fly potentially empty mainline jets here to save a one time $321,000? At PCL and XJ sweatshop rates surely, they'd recoup that investment. This could be the final nail in the XJ CVG crewbase should this occur. We'll just have to be patient and see what happens...

NOthing new on 528 except from what I posted the last time... still waiting to get fixed. Although the last time I was in MEM C2 was finally being repaired. It was also said the avros will slowly get phased over to the B concourse as PCL doesn't have anywhere to park with the new schedules and increased CRJ flying from MEM. Since the avro can park at selected B gates and the CRJ can't, they're going over to C. Rumor also has it that more Avros will park at the A concourse in DTW while CRJs overflow into the B concourse and saabs get hardstands. Who knows what the mix will be like when DL and company move over to the worldgateway.


AZJ


edited for grammer and content

[This message has been edited by azj (edited 04-13-2003).]

Thanks for the headsup azj, but this is not so good news. I have been using NW regularly into SDF since the alliance with CO (and all the ERJs) and MEM has been a reasonable outlet with a good mix of Avro's and mainliners when DTW is not convenient or sold out of lower fares. As much as I detest the ERJs, the Canadairs are even worse and will not get my business except in extreme emergencies.

Mainline is parking jets and has over 600 pilots on the street. The commuters are recalling pilots and hiring like wildfire for the CRJs... Hate to point out the obvious, but you're going to start seeing a lot more mini-jets on the routes you fly.

Let's just make it very clear here, Mesaba is also parking planes and has pilots on the street. So don't start acusing Mesaba of taking jobs and routes. NW is just allocating capacity to meet demand. That complaint is getting really old. Contrary to popular belief mgmt is pushing us to accept a concessionary contract as well. It's not just NW that has a bleak situation, we're not exactly looking at shiney new planes and explosive growth at XJ either.


AZJ

[This message has been edited by azj (edited 04-13-2003).]

I was on two flights in March from PHX to ELP on HP and they had CRJ's with a FC cabin.

It has 1-2 seating , single seat on LH side with 2 seats on the right. The extra room, seat pitch and service made it much more comfortable than in an all coach configuration. I also learned that HP is the ONLY domestic carrier to offer FC on CRJ's.

Does anyone know if Mesaba is considering adding FC to the CRJ's?

RC

I didn't say anything about Mesaba. The customer mentioned he didn't like CRJs...I merely said we're (mainline)flying less, and they're flying more (CRJs). That would imply Pinnacle.

B. YOU mentioned that XJ is bringing back 16 pilots to fly the summer schedule. I mentioned that mainline has 600 on the street, soon to be 900. You connect the dots.

Doobeirw - didn't mean to attack. You just said "commuters" so I figured you put PCl and XJ in the same boat. You may be aware of our situation at XJ, but there are LOTS of your fellow mainliners who have no clue who XJ is and think we're flying all those new CRJs.

Radiocycle - Mesaba doens't operate CRJs, maybe someday in the future but right now PCL is getting all the love with a red tail on it. No plans to put FC on the NW CRJs... they're 50 and 44 seats - it wouldn't make sense. YOu were on a CRJ700 operated by the alterego Mesa carrier called Freedom Airlines. Don't forget that NW and XJ were the first airline to operate an "RJ" with FC... the avro.

AZJ

Before this turns into an ugly public pissing contest, let me first apologize to AZJ. My posts weren't intended to step on toes regarding contracts, scope, commuters, etc, etc. There is an entire can of worms there and I had absolutely no intention of going there.

My point was merely directed at Monitor...who mentioned a distaste for flying on the mini-jets. I was merely trying to say get used to it.

We've got some great folks on the NWA team who are jumping through hoops trying to match loads, capacity, etc. and get the airline back to profitability. These are certainly painful times in the industry and hopefully things will turn around in the near future for ALL of us.

Yes, let us all. I believe HP has CRJ-800s though, which are bigger. Not totally sure on that though. Let us not forget why the Avro does have First Class...
Good luck to those based at CVG.

bk - they're CRJ700s (which are built to seat 70). They're also taking delivery of CRJ900 (built to seat 90). There is no CRJ800 in production. They're also not operated by HP- they're operated by FREEDOM airlines - a Mesa sweatshop Airlines operation.

You're right - this isn't the place for a public pissing match. No toes were stepped on here... but man! You do that at usavitaion quite well. THis is yet another cycle in the aviation business, we'll ride through this storm, just like all the previous ones.


AZJ

Posted by doobierw:

"My point was merely directed at Monitor... who mentioned a distaste for flying on the mini-jets. I was merely trying to say get used to it."

My reply is that there is no reason that I need to get used to squeezing into one of those sardine cans a couple of times a week. I will stick with the airlines that give me a first class seat and a little bit of extra comfort. The day that these go away, I can always go to the likes of WN and their full-sized cattlcars, for it certainly looks like they will be survivors of the great airline shakeout of 2003 and 2004.

By the way azj, what the h*ll were you talking about at CVG in your first post here and what is causing you and doobierw to carry on as you are with each other? Note that this question comes from somebody who has flown on NW at least a dozen times in the past year.


[This message has been edited by monitor (edited 04-13-2003).]

Me, I like the "sardine cans." Especially if they have F seating...

Why? Because it really feels like you are flying instead of aboard an airborne Greyhound. It's not as good as being up front, but it's not bad.

GO SARDINE!

Steve

Whoops, my bad. I knew it was up in those numbers though. And I was refering the HP in general, including the regionals.

AZJ,

My mistakes, first it was Freedom airline (not HP) that operated those flights and I didn't realize that they were a later model of CRJ that is not utilized by Pinnacle or Mesaba.

I just was impressed at the comfort in first class, and like the RJ's FC would enjoy seeing Mesaba and/or Pinnacle acquire a/c like Freedom Airlines is flying.

Regards,

RC

Monitor - the DL/NW/CO alliance was approved - therefore when possible each airline will be consolidating near each other, especially in their hubs. CO and NW already operate near each other in DTW,MSP and MEM and now DL will be relocating in at least DTW from the Smith terminal to the Worldgateway. At the same time, NW will be relocating from terminal 1 at CVG to terminal 3A. That's what all the talk about CVG was about. And as for the bickering, well, that's just the love we have for each other in the red tail employee family. It's a bitter sweet love hate relationship. We all fly for the same people, but managment has driven a 3 way wedge between the employee groups. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. And as for being forced to fly an RJ - you're never forced into anything you don't want to do. They're becomming the reality in markets though, that can't support a mainline a/c. They're GENERALLY used on short flights anyhow. I personally find the CRJ uncomfortable as well - but can put up with it for short flights. Sorry to see your business go away from NW in this case - but think about this. CO and DL domestic operation are basically 50% RJ. NW doesn't even come close! So your odds of riding on a mainline a/c whilst flying a red tial is much greater. However there are hundreds of these bad boys on order for everyones short haul pleasure.

Radiocycle - FC on an RJ is nothing new. NW and Mesaba pioneered that with the avros. You fly out of CMH - surely you've been on one to MSP, MEM or DTW! You won't see PCL or Mesaba flying anything like the CRj700 or CRJ900. We're currently limited to operating 36 Avros with no more than 69 seats. Those restrictions are from the NW pilots in their contract. If those restrictions are relaxed, there maybe more 70 seat a/c floating around with a red tail. Hopefully the NW pilots won't be like the AA pilots and want to take a/c from the airlinkers... but that's a whole other can of worms.

AZJ