a) this woman was very rude, and when I say elderly, I don't mean crippled and in a wheel chair, I mean 60-70 years old.

b) this has nothing to do where I'm from- I'm actually from Detroit by the way, this has to do with the fact that I paid for seats, and we had seat assignments, and she didn't.

If you're flying a paid F or C and get bumped to Y it's a hard place to be in. You certainly want the difference between F/C and Y fares. But which Y fare? Sounds like a huge hassle.

As we all know, Inventory Management folks handle each flight very differently, depending on historical figures to predict future demand. Every day of the week also can be handled differently than another day. Given that information, it is easy to understand why some flights might be always overbooked, while others never are.

Actually, domestic and international have different guidelines at NW.

For domestic flights, the general rule is to never overbook F. And in fact, quite often F seats are held back from being sold if Y is historically heavily overbooked. As long as weather issues and mechanicals do not exceed what they have forecasted as "normal" then everything usually works out just fine. In abnormal situations, though, it is possible that things could turn out very bad when it comes time to close the door of the plane, but usually it is only the standbys who might get left behind and everyone with confirmed reservations will be accommodated.

For international flights, depending on the historical averages, sometimes WBC can be overbooked by up to 2 passengers. Gate agents and supervisors have told me they "hate it" when that happens, because they sometimes are forced to downgrade a paying customer to a Y seat and refund a part of their fare. No matter how they look at, this is a very difficult and awkward situation to handle. But they also know that the average no-show rate for international flights runs around 8% and that there is always the possibility of misconnects, so they just deal with it on a case by case basis as part of their job.

In the end, only two things really matter: as many seats as possible are filled with "paying" customers; and most importantly, the revenue from the flight is the highest amount they could possibly have received that day.

Two years ago I got a BU to FC and when I sat another pax had the same seat number, but his was booked in FC. So I had to go to the back. But I told them I wanted my original seat in the exit row and I got it. Never could understand how a computer could screw up?

The flight in question was NW 746, MSP-DTW (5/16).

I tried to offer my seat for $300 - they didn't want to hear it. The agent scanning boarding passes asked his coworker after I inquired "Do you need volunteers?" "Do you need First Class volunteers?" "No and No" was the answer to both questions. I guess bump compensation for F to Y is no longer an option, either!

Think hub-to-hub flights can be a different animal. Those flights oftne have many PAX that have been rerouted. Maybe some International FC PAX got rerouted MSP to DTW and they overbooked hoping some doemstic would not show...?

Don't fling too many bad thoughts at folks upset because of a downgrade.

As someone who's been placed in a middle seat, after booking paid F, I can tell you upset isn't the word to describe how I felt.

Up to that point I had felt that paid F was the top of the food chain...this is not so.

All the best, James

What did NW offer to compensate you?

I had a confirmed F seat (upgraded using miles) and was sitting near the podium. Heard a seasoned GA talking with a trainee about how First was oversold and it had something to do with the automatic complimentary upgrades. She reasoned that the "system" upgraded 1 too many and that 1 person would need to be downgraded to Y (no equiptment change) Some chatter with others about what was to be offered for compensation. Just prior to her calling the women to the gate I mad rushed to introduce myself. =)

They were quite happy to offer $200 E-Voucher, and put me in the back.
Later nwa refunded the miles I used to upgrade.

I doubt F is routinely oversold. But, occasionally it does.

But, in this case, everyone was happy.
-I get a voucher
-the womans never knew she was about to be parked in the back of the plane
-NWA saves a potential complaint

Was offered either:

A>Voucher + F on later flight (that missed the connection)
B>Voucher + free snack box + partial fare refund

Since I had to teach class the next day, took option B. Would rather have been in F with the upgraded PE's.

All the best, James

Makes sense to me -- I'll be he was a successful businessman who evaluated his alternatives and acted accordingly.

As a matter of policy, NW does not overbook F class, but generally overbooks C class on international flights by 1 or 2 seats.

Given that the aircraft was not downgraded, I can only assume that Federal Air Marshalls booked the flight, their reservations are generally made within 24 hours of the flight and are always F class, unless they are not on duty. It makes no difference if F is already booked full or a certain aisle seat is already taken, if the FAMs want it, they get it and the paying customer unfortunately pays the price and the agents cannot disclose why a customer was downgraded or moved from their pre-reserved seat.

May I ask why they are put in first class?

If they don't pay for their tickets, they are hurting the airlines, and if they are paying (government is paying) they are wasting our tax dollars.

But you basically are disclosing this if you don't tell the pax why they were downgraded.

Because they are closer to the cockpit to protect the pilots. Supposedly.

They do fly on paid tickets. FAMs actually rack up huge amounts of FF miles.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner! But...you feel, uh, "safer", right?

I dunno... what little "pampering" I get as someone who flies a lot of miles on the cheapest possible fares is enough to make me want to keep my business where it is. If I were in his shoes, I'd be getting pampered a lot more, by a lot more people, and would be inclined to overlook it if once every several years, the airline simply wasn't able to do something.