I'm sorry if I didn't entirely skirt this concern. My primary issue is the likely attitude of the FAs who get knocked off the International routes, keep their jobs based on Union seniority rules, and end up on domestic routes. While I won't claim to be an expert on FA procedures/likes/dislikes what I have heard is that they prefer international flights for a variety of reasons. As such I'm expecting they will think of this as a demotion, get angry, and take it out on anyone in range. (including us)

For what its worth I've never really been into the whole "cofee, tea, or me" foolishness that surrounded FAs for so long. Various forces really should have eroded that a long time ago but I know that FAs still consider it a problem (many of the FAs with wedding rings aren't really married - just trying to deflect issues).

Wow this thread could be a book!!
My 2cents............ Customer service performed by any gender, any age, any nationality should be done politely, courtiously. and with pride. If you cannot do that get out of the profession!

There are excellent FA's at ALL ages (and FA's w/ attitude at all ages)
 

As everywhere else there are people who love their job and work hard to do it well and there are also people who do the bare minimum.

I think nwa has dedicated FA's that work very hard, some of the most senior FA's are older in age, but that does not mean they have a bad attitude or don't provide good service.

I have found good (and bad) service occurs without respect to age, it is based on the FA.

Lets get back to the original topic.

RC

'The original topic'
 

The original topic is the replacement of overseas flight crews by asian fa's and the consensus by those of us who fly transpac is that the current, seasoned fa's on NWA's transpac routes are aweful. Put your bottom in a couple of roundtrips to BKK for 16 hours and witness it for yourself. We're not here to make this stuff up or to talk about fat, old fa's just because we don't have anything better to do. We're stating facts. It may be why NWA is rated so low in so many areas. Clean it up! If disparaging remarks on this thread ruffles your feathers, so be it. If you can add something to the thread, do so but don't insenuate that we're off on a rant and aren't sticking to the original topic. This 'let's talk about something else', don't keep harping on the negative etc.' is exactly why some American co.'s/airlines are in so much trouble. Sweep it under the rug, ignore it, let's talk about something else etc. How 'bout....let's fix it!

As far as Fat, and Menopausal.... It's been said many times, that FAs primary job is security. If you're a 60 year old woman, your bones are brittle... they're gonna be the LAST ones to survive a crash instact... The last ones to be able to fend off any sort of terrorist uprising, or having any ability at all to control an air-rage passenger. Menopause destroys a woman's body, leaving bones as brittle as matchsticks. And the fat ones? I know the courts ruled against me about fat FAs but it still doesn't make it rgiht. A thin, nimble FA (male or female) can get around that food cart when they have to, but not a fat one. A thin FA doesn't bump every single persons shoulders when they walk down the aisle, and I've seen the fats ones do that with impunity. I think criticizing fat, and old women FAs is totally in line with their base capability of doing their job in a professional and efficient manner.

The last A330 I took off on from MSP->Ams there was this fat old crab bag of an FA... I got on early with the elites, and noticed a passenger being seated out of a wheel chair with a bag that had I assumed some medical supplies in it. About 5 minutes later this person asked the FA for help getting it into the bin... the FA was totally rude, told her she wouldn't help, then started reading her the grandmother routine: You shouldn't have brought that bag on the plane if you cant put it up there yourself. The passenger said please help me get it up there. The FA said No, I'm not going to help you, but I'll have it checked for you. At this point I stood up and said "Hay lady, that passenger was wheelchaired onto the plane, and It may not be a good idea to force her to check in her medical supplies." The FA then read me the riot act, after which point she made another FA help the passenger put her bag up. My whole point is, the attitude accompanied by physical inability and age made this FA someone who should NOT be an FA. She couldn't do her base job.

Dan K

Gee, I wonder why NW FA's don't post much to this forum anymore :rolleyes: .

By the way, I chose NW as my primary carrier because of the FA's, ground crew and reservations agents which I have found uniformly courteous and professional. Yes I have run into a few bad apples over time, but after reading some of the opinons posted on this thread, heck this forum for the past few months I wonder why the he%@ any of your are flying this airline if you hate the FA's and frontline staff so much.

My thoughts continue to be with the FA's and everyone else who have given their careers to NW and it's success. I have stopped flying NW for the most part, but apparently I am the only one here who blames Management for it's horrible leadership this year instead of being disrespectful to the frontline employees.

If they do go ahead with these replacements will we see fewer complaints about FAs on FT? I bet we won't.

There are plenty of wonderful NW FAs who know full well that these bad apples suffering from senioritis constitute a terrible drag on their company's success. They will display solidarity in public but admit it readily in private.

NWA is proposing the replacement of US FA's on Intl Routes because of costs (not age)
 

It is incredible that age and service are being cited as the reason nwa is proposing to replace US based FA's with foreign FA's.

The reason nwa states for this proposed change is cost based, not age or service based.

I find it rude, insensitive and obnoxious to blame FA's in general for bad service when the issue is reducing costs and how nwa will reduce overhead.

I speak for myself (not as a moderator) and this is my personal oipinion.

Surely nobody can believe all FA's provide bad service. There are good and bad in every company, most employees are somewhere inbetween!

BTW, I do fly NWA on international routes.

RC

OutofOffice,
I have to give you most of your point - NW's management led them to this place. Maybe they should have hedged fuel like Southwest, maybe they should have replaced their gas guzzlers like CO and so on. Unfortunately they are in the hole they are now and yes, the staff is going to take the brunt of it.
However, the staff is in the game too when it come to us - the customers. The staff can take a position that they can influence where this goes by not chasing us away in less than great conditions. The very existence of NW hangs on the revenue that customers put in and the staff is not caring for the customer very well.
Why do we hang on? Well I'm not sure there is a lot of choice right now. Yes, we can go to the other carriers but then we would have to sacrifice our Worldperks program which is still one of the best in the business. Hoping to the other carriers means no upgrades without points/sticker/vouchers/woowoosticks (like AA) or no recognition of frequent travelers at all (like Southwest). NW may have sunk a ways lately but not enough that I'm willing to face that yet. (emphasize yet though)

Of possible interest excerpts passed on to me
 

Northwest Maintenance Scrutinized
AN INVESTIGATION BY THE MINNEAPOLIS STAR-TRIBUNE found that inspectors for the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) filed reports detailing a number of maintenance problems at Northwest Airlines, which is currently grappling with a strike by its mechanics union.
The newspaper reported that FAA inspectors filed reports citing training deficiencies among replacement workers, maintenance errors, and recordkeeping problems. Northwest responded with a statement saying it would be inappropriate to comment on the specifics of internal FAA documents, but noted: "Northwest remains confident in the quality of its ongoing maintenance program."
The FAA increased the number of inspectors assigned to Northwest from 53 to about 80 after members of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association walked off the job in August.

BearX220,

I agree with you on that, but doesn't that apply to all of the US legacy carriers?. I think if every NW FA was replaced tomorrow, there would still be complaints about service, just a different set of complaints. I guess I am just so blown away by the fact that if you took the recent posts in this forum at face value, the reality would be that NW FA's are no better than Aeroflot FA's a decade ago.

By the way one of my worst flying experiences was on Virgin Atlantic at the hands of a young, fresh faced FA. One of my best flying experinces was also on Virgin thanks to a ticket agent who upgraded me because I was nice to him. Again, good and bad apples in every Airline.

If you read what people are posting I don't think anyone's saying that NWAs FAs are bad. I believe that overwelmingly everyone says that the domestic FAs are as good or better than any airlines FAs. The xatlantic and xpacific FAs are the ones that almost unanimously people believe are aweful. Read carefully :) It's the international FAs that have all the seniority, and rule the ex-usa flights, and are too jaded or just plain don't care anymore.

How can people blame NWA management? What can they do besides try to get out of the bargained agreements with the Unions, which reward time served, not quality. And that's exactly what NWA's management is doing. I think NWA's management does somehting right, or else why do the domestic FAs continually provide courteous and efficient service? I think the domestic NWA FAs are the best domestic FAs out there, at least of the legacy carriers.

IMO, when an FA is too old to help passengers with their bags, or too old to provide the security that is the primary mission of their jobs, or too fat to make it down the aisleway without bumping into everyone, it's time for them to get rotated to a ticket counter job. And when they're too obnoxious to give a hoot, it's time for them to get a new job. There are minimum requirements for sitting in the exit row, but no apparent minimum requirements to serve as an FA... what's with that? And if you think that my saying this is disrespectful, maybe it is, but it's still the truth, and often the truth does hurt.


Dan K

I think people are not citing that as the reason, but expressing hopes as a causality.

The issue for me is the fear that the "rude insenstive and obnoxious" FAs currently working ex-usa might be spared the axe and rotated back to the US routes, and the decent FAs might get the axe. All in the name of reducing costs and overhead. I can only hope that NWA will axe the "rude insenstive and obnoxious" when they bring on the outsourced.

See my above post.

It seems to me (and alot of other people) that that's where the majority of the bad apples are. There are some good FAs ex-usa, but the number of bad service stories I have on ex-usa flights is about 10x the number i have domestically... I fly more segments domestically to boot. I'll share another typical ex-usa FA story:

Last year I took the A330 to AMS... I get on the plane and it's dark already, I can't see much... sit down to read my magazine but can't really see. About this time a fat crachety loudmouth fa comes down the aisle yelling at people "Dont try to turn on the tv until we're in the air, you'll break it", over and over and over... really obnoxious. I'm thinking - if that's the case it's already broken. but anyways I pull out the remote, looking for the button to turn on my light so I can read my magazine... about this time she comes up to me and yells "I JUST SAID, DONT TURN ON THE TEEEE VEEE!". I replied calmly - "Am I allowed to turn on my overhead light so I can read my magazine?" she yells back "PUT THE REMOTE BACK IN THE ARMREST NOW", then snatches it out of my hand and puts it back in... All of this entirely unnecessary, and typical of the attitude the ex-usa FAs dish out. Later on in the flight I'm dying of dehydration and all the FAs have vanished. sleeping or hiding somewhere.... finally I hit the call button... then again... finally an FA appears with of course an attitude for making her actually work and serve customers to help ease a medical condition. Really. I'll shed no tears when they all get the axe. I could write a book of similar encounters. So many of the ex-usa FAs are struck from the same mould.

Dan K

The thing is, I don't doubt your story for a second. I've seen similar behavior in both cabins on international flights. I was on a SEA-AMS leg, a DC-10, where the front cabin staff were so foul-tempered, a whole bunch of grown men were afraid to ask them for anything. Domestic is definitely better -- while you meet snippy people here and there, international/longhaul really takes the biscuit for astonishing "service."

I don't see how stuff like this is management's fault.