Non-NonRev

Interesting discussion.

I recently purchased a ticket from Billetnet.dk. The ticket price was DKK 850,- and the Gebyr (ticket fee) was DKK 15,- for a total of DKK 865,-.

However, the total amount charged to my credit card (before currency conversion) was DKK 875,81.

Was the extra DKK 10,81 the credit card fee?

onobond

1, Wow, are we having different shopping patterns. Travelling frequently in both Germany and Italy, the only stores with cash/local cards only were kiosks and convenient stores, where few, if any, of us would use a card anyway.
2. From other's experience I've learned that there are ultra-low-budget-outlet chains in Italy with the same practice. It's doubtful whether travellers carrying competent debit/credit cards would even consider entering such establishments.



3. Au contraire, this something very special with Denmark, where tourists are charged for lowering the risk of Shop/Restaurant owner beeing robbed of cash, using a card.
4.Your statement regarding everything passed on to the banks has been labeled incorrect by American Express.
5. By what means can a shop owner determine any customer with a non-Danish CC as "non-loyal", compared to the occasional Danish visitor?
6. Why is this "reasonable" in Denmark, when Danes never pay extra due to their Danish cards, when going abroad?


7. Many of us left cash-only routine way back in previous century. Bringing lots of cash sounds like a safe way to travel
8. Of course we all stand corrected to the local expertise declaring stores and restaurants in the absolute center of CPH (Read Stroeget) as "non-tourist"



9. Interesting, but logically incorrect point. Had this been a really free market, I would cross the street to find a shop/restaurant not discriminating tourists. Not much time to cross the bridge to Malmoe fo dinner when the time is past 9.30 pm.
10. Need to compliment you for the single correct statement in your post, namely about the shop/restaurant owners doing this to make a profit ^



11. Sure, consumer-friendly for the Danes, not for tourists. But that's what this post is all about.
12. Won't dispute statement of Denmark as a happy country. Sure the Danes are happy, squeezing extra fees out of tourists in their own country, knowing that the nice surrounding world will treat them better, when travelling.
13. Naming other countries: What about The Rest of The World, where this overcharge on CC doesn't take place?



14. Irrelevant statement. This thread is not about the prices in Denmark, but aimed at the Danish mischief of overcharging visitors, paying with debit/credit cards. The two named countries, as many (all?) others, don't.

tommy777

What he said ^^

Goldlust

Well, I know Americans often travel only in the main tourist spots whereas people from Old Europe often prefer a more unique travelling experience. Perhaps that could explain it.

I do not think you are in a position to judge where people with "competent" credit cards would enter. Perhaps you need a broader vision.


That is very clearly not a fact but merely your opinion. I have made it clear why I think your opinion is very much wrong and without merit.

You should also be aware that using a credit card is also saving the customer from being robbed.

You are wrong once more throwing around false statements. Otherwise, please produce a detailed list where AMEX lists the specific stores in Denmark with false information on their signs. The simple truth is, that you are jumping to conclusions based on your very limited and not very promising understanding of the Danish electronic banking systems. PBS have approved the signs in the stores, so obviously they are legal and truthful.

Certainly, the chance of seeing a customer again will on general increase, if the customer is actually living in the country.

Oh, I see, you think that everybody in the world are entitled to the same? Sounds very communist to me. How lovely. I had not expected that from an American but I do commend you on your openness to wiser forms of government.

Well, in that case you should use a credit card.


There are hundreds of restaurants in Copenhagen not charging anything extra. Perhaps they are to expensive for your purse?

Besides, I think other posters have already made it clear to you that this is not discrimination towards tourists. If anything, it is discrimination towards people with foreign issued credit cards. Those people can be Danes and live in Denmark, such as I, who also have such a card.

Again, you are mistaken. The nationality of the customer makes no difference. The (minor) fee on the credit card only depends on the country of issue.

Tommy mentioned that he would shop elsewhere, so I think it is reasonable to respond to that. (Reference to tommy777.)

tommy777

What difference does it make where the member is from? I have traveled to Italy and off the beaten path every year since my family took me there for the first time in the 80s and like in the US, there are very few stores that doesn't accept credit cards. You will find Mexican restaurants in my area that doesn't like you will find a charming pizzeria in a little mountain village in Italy that doesn't. But there's a big difference. The onces that do, don't charge you extra money at all for using a safe, preferred payment method. In Germany and Norway you will find discount grocery stores that doesn't take credit cards. But most places do and they never charge you for it.


How does the credit card rob you? If you as a foreigner take out money of an ATM or change money in your home country, there's a fee equivalent to the credit card fee for doing so. That's a known fact for frequent travelers. And the reason why me and most people in the world prefer to pay with credit card because it's safer. The Danish fees are in addition to these fees, that's why holders of foreign cards react.

Pretty nationalistic statement. Most people are happy in the country they live in and probably don't want to move to Denmark to be able to get the discriminating Dankort. It doesn't change the fact that it's discriminating against credit card users and for the rest of the world that doesn't have a Danish social security number. We are all excluded from getting a fair deal in Denmark. If you check the numbers of tourists visiting Denmark every year, you will see that if every one of those tourist spent 1000 DKK less because it's a huge challenge to deal with this issue, you would see an alarming number of billions lost for retailers in this country because of discrimination.


The poster asks as very good question and you ignore to answer it. So you think it's fair that Danes don't pay any fees abroad but ok to charge all foreign card holders a fee in Denmark? I guess since they all have a Danish bank card they don't give a damn?
Well, with your type of logic, Denmark is a communist country because they are passing laws that are discriminating against foreign credit card companies, or? So free competition does not apply in that country?

What does that have to do with it? You are claiming that Denmark is one of the most consumer friendly countries in the world. Shouldn't the consumer have the opportunity to choose where he/she wants to dine? Should it be necessary to go and look for a place that 1) takes credit cards 2) charges a fee every time you want a meal? The fact is that most restaurants don't take credit cards or charges a fee. I went up and down Stroket when I was in Copenhagen around Christmas to find a bar that would serve me a beer. I couldn't find a single place and was forced to go to an ATM and take money out charging me a huge fee. We were having dinner with a few friends at a well known Copenhagen spot. I was paying and had to take out 4K DKK and carry them in my pocket on a Friday night around town because they only took the discriminating Dankort card.

How so? It's a double fee for anyone who doesn't reside in Denmark because you need to have a Danish social security card to get the discriminating Danish bank card. Which means you will pay a double fee.

I chose to let Denmark pay with my wallet. I was planning on doing my last minute Christmas shopping in Copenhagen, but ended up doing it in Oslo instead. A place that's even more expensive than Denmark. I bet I'm not the only one. If your perception of capitalism is making money off fees like this or not accept credit cards all together, I think your business will be in trouble because I'm quite sure that many many other visitors will do what I did and scrap shopping in Denmark all together. And that for being so cheap that you can't do what all other countries on this planet does: bake this in to the price and get business.

So you are asking all visitors to move to Denmark so we can get the Dankort. Get real!

EasternTraveler

Onobond is spot on with his statements.

Correction. Denmark is cheaper than Sweden. Norway is higher. Based on last visit in June.

I did not get charged any extra fee on my visit, but I was only there a few days. If someone wants to surcharge, I walk on down the street.

Some people need to quit being nationalistic I think.

tsastor

Am I the only one to think that this thread has completely lost its focus? Almost seems like trolling to me. I just can't understand what all these nationalistic / political / anti-american (tourist) sentiments have to do with credit card fees?

A much more topical discussion would be the core issue: do retailers have the right or the guts to charge the credit card fees transparently or should they accept any kind of fees and even these costs between their clients? Obviously legislation provides for both approaches in Denmark.

Another interesting question is: will charging the credit card fees from the end client spread to other countries in Europe when the common payment area SEPA really kicks in?

Again, obviously this might have a profound impact to the way many here (including yours truly) is able to collect miles and points from their purchases and indeed it may even raise the question if this collection is feasible at all...

I don't see what good avoiding this discussion (and instead focusing on pointless prejudiced arguing) would do to the points earning public.

Lady in the skies

Not sure if I dare to post here, especially since I'm en route to CPH.

I was actually warned about this ridiculous fee on foreign credit cards in Denmark by a fellow traveller this afternoon, so I'm surely watching out not to be ripped off.

Had I been a Dane, I would be excusing my country for treating tourists this way. But I sense that talking about this subject can be offensive for some locals, so I'll seal my lips, just looking out for the signs to avoid certain shops and restaurants.

ocha

That is to be seen. However, at least in Finland the new SEPA rules allow retailers/restaurants/etc. to charge potential fees from customer. Until today the fees have been baked in to the prices. I would though suspect that we Finns are that much cost sensitive that in case there will be additional fees, consumers will react. Mainly the impact will be a high increase in paying with cash. It will be amusing to see the impact in say your local Alepa when the amount of cash used in transaction increases sky high. This will probably increase the need for additional security in stores with additional cost which will be paid by the consumers...

tsastor

Yes, it is interesting how cost sensitive people get when fees are visible. However no-one seems to care when international financial institutions and credit card companies try to snatch 1 to 5% of the value of all retail purchases made worldwide for themselves.Absolutely. Payment by debit/credit card makes a lot more sense. If retailers are smart, they will not charge extra for payments made with cards that incur only a small fee for their true costs/reasonable profits. I have understood that this kind of fee currently is in the region of 0,3 to 0,5%.

Lady in the skies

OK, just left Denmark. Really surprised to see how this scheme of adding 3.75% is done, without notifying customers/guests. I met with some friends, took a walk in the otherwise nice, clean and friendly city. We decided to have lunch in a chinese restaurant on Stroget, who advertised with a priceworthy buffet. I warned all others, so we were really looking for signs of extra charges, which could not be seen. I even asked if there was any problem using foreign CC. Everybody were fluent in English, denying ANY probs with a non-Dane CC. When the bill arrived we were stunned to see 94 DKK ( roughly 20 USD) added as Gebyr (Fee) Questioned about this extra, now nobody knew English, they even threatened us with police etc. My friends decided we paid "learning money" and left. I'll think twice before returning to Denmark.

munnifar

The law in Denmarks is so that in the physical transaction no fees are allowed to be added to the customer ! However in the non physical trade (internet - mailorder) the vendor can add his actual costs to the creditcard clearing company (actually 1,25%).
If the card is issued outside Denmark any vendor can add his actual costs which are 3,75-5% for most CC issued outside Denmark. By law no one is allowed to make fixed fees or this like - Only fees that covers his costs !
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If you ride a taxi you will always see this signposted duly !
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The reason for this legilation is that cash payers should not "pay" for the rebates offered to whose with postponed payment, which is the case of creditcard payers (Danes and foreigners).
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Most retailers appriciates that CC holders generally spend more, which often results in that they do not charge extra for foreign cardholders.
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This is only explanation and doses not represent my personal view(s) since I do understand the frustration that those met by the requirement of a fee to pay.
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I do think that over time these fees will go away !

chrismo2

To Lady in the skies: The law clearly says that if a merchant is takes a credit card fee, it should be diplayed in the shop. There have been some trials on this issues and the customers got their fees back. You could try to contact your credit card company on this issue, stating that the restaurant did not diplay the fee according to Danish law.

gnaget

Here's an update on this matter:

http://www.scancomark.se/Market/How-...n-Denmark.html

onobond

The link is 13 months old. I haven't been to DK during this time, for various reasons. Can anyone update?

To me it looks scary when they openly say they don't care about EU regulations: