gschadow

I have a British Airways flight coming from Mumbai India and London into JFK terminal 7 at 2 pm and on the same day at 11:30 pm on with Avianca out of terminal 4 to Sao Paulo, Brazil. We are not US citizens and would like to avoid the hassle of immigration. However, these are two different itineraries.

I know there is enough time either way to deal with all necessary and unnecessary trouble.

Avianca says they have an interline agreement with British Airways, so I am hoping that I will take care of the baggage to be routed right through. And hopefully therefore I won't need to go to any check-in counter outside the transit area.

Is there some kind of terminal shuttle (bus) from inside the transit area that gets us to terminal 4? What else would international transit travelers do at JFK?

Analise

Your desire to avoid the hassle of immigration is a pleasant thought but that's all it is. You will go through immigration as you'll be going from Terminal 7 to Terminal 4. That transit takes you outside of security.

Yup, there is plenty of time.

You wrote that you have 2 separate itineraries so contact the airline to see if they will transfer your baggage to your second flight departing from a separate terminal from your arrival at JFK.

You can take the free Airtrain which is located outside of security. You will have to go through security at Terminal 4.

sbm12

That is not possible when transiting in the United States, regardless of the terminals. You will absolutely have to clear immigration and customs in the USA. If that requires a visa for your passport/residence status then make sure you have the correct one secured our BA will (rightfully) deny you boarding.

BA will not tag bags through to a separate ticket. Also, you must claim your bags on arrival, even if BA would tag them through.

There is no such thing as a "transit area" at US airports for international travelers. That said, there is a free AirTrain that runs between the terminals outside security. After you collect your bags at T7 and clear customs go out and follow signs to the AirTrain station. It is across the street and upstairs and relatively well signed. Take the "All Terminals" train two stops to T4 and exit there for the check-in counters upstairs (escalators at both ends of the platform).

I have no idea how early Avianca will allow you to drop bags or when the counters will open. You may find yourself stuck outside security with your bags for a few hours on this itinerary. If you do end up in that situation the food options outside security are better in T1 (back on the All Terminals AirTrain another 2 stops) but that's not to say those are good. Just better than the other options. I believe there is also a diner downstairs in T4 if you want to stay in the terminal at that point.

gschadow

Ech. Thanks guys. And sorry for having asked that question when I found the answer by another search right here on this forum.

It is amazing that there is no transit possibility given that many US airlines route you on a single ticket from South America to Europe or Asia through a US hub, and the US Consulates are notoriously horrible for any foreigner to beg for any sort of visa. I would think that disadvantages US Airlines (or keeps many passengers screwed when they actually want to board the flight from Brazil to India via JFK.

Good that I have no problem with the immigration part.

Only I never like the customs part. Is there no category to classify your immigration as a mere transit to avoid the (rare case of) customs scrutiny?

sbm12

It is definitely bad for the US carriers but it is what the government chose to do. A plan to implement secure international transit as some airports was underway in the late 1990s into 2000 but 9/11 managed to kill that idea. IAH (E), EWR (C3) and a few other terminals were designed to support the transit before the feds killed that plan.

There are a couple airports/airlines now where I:I transit passengers on a single ticket can clear while not having to reclaim their bags. I believe AA/MIA and UA/IAH are two and there may be others. Those pilot programs are unlikely to expand in the current political climate IMO.

Sadly, no. If you have to fill out the blue form you can write "transit" as your US destination but that doesn't exempt you from potential screening.

UKtravelbear

You could have flown Heathrow to Sao Paulo on BA avoiding the US entirely and then you could have done an airside transit at LHR. If all on one ticket from Mumbai then BA would check your bags all the way through and you'd remain airside too.


I don't understand this. The vast majority of people simply walk past an officer with their cases, hand over their form and are sent on their way!

Analise

If you had wanted that ease, why didn't you transit at LHR?

Since by and large customs is a walk through unless you are declaring items, what is there to dislike?

sbm12

My guess is "being brown" at US Customs and getting profiled/stopped far more than a White citizen does. But that's just a guess.

Often1

None of this matters in OP's case. He is transferring between two tickets and not connecting. BA will not check bags across tickets and thus, wherever OP chooses to make his airport transfer, he will have to reclaim his luggage and then check it in with his onward carrier. BA will not even check bags across its own tickets. Thus, OP will require whatever visa, ESTA, and other documents which might be required for any transfer point, whether JFK or other.

As to the broader question, the US simply does not recognize transit and the concept, which was studied in the late 1990's, was largely abandoned prior to 9/11. As a percentage of passenger traffic, I-I is so miniscule as not to warrant the logisitical issues it creates. Even MIA which was rebuilt with a transit area in place and some percentage of I-I traffic, could not justify the costs associated.

For the most part, I-I luggage is not a particularly big deal as it is dropped immediately post-Customs and, if already tagged through to the final destination, dropped means dropped rather than standing in line to recheck. I-T-I bag handling is useful as it means that the bags are not physically handled by the passenger at the US gateway. While CBP maintains a right to inspect bags and does do so both randomly and when there is a reason, that is pretty rare.

JimInOhio

It's not just a case of very small Int to Int traffic but that USA airports are not designed for sterile Int departures. Think about a place like O'Hare... how could you ever redesign the UA and AA complexes to isolate Int departures without making a big impact on all of their domestic operations?

cestmoi123

The two are closely linked. Because there's very little I-I transit traffic, there hasn't been the incentive to make the huge changes to airports necessary to make it work.

ijgordon

Well it's a little chicken-and-egg if you ask me, but I think even if they made the process more attractive, it would still be a very small percentage of the overall traffic that would be I:I since there is so much domestic travel. But yeah, the changes necessarily for secure I-I transit are meaningful and structural and I imagine difficult to retrofit on existing infrastructure.

gschadow

Right, I could have made a transit in Heathrow, but the reason I didn't is that I have a very good price on the GRU-JFK-GRU return ticket. JFK is an awful airport, but in international flights it offers a unique price competition. I know I can get a decent India flight from JFK and my flight is even more complicated with a stop-over in Europe. So, I just did it that way. Fortunately we have visa and ESTA and all, and no I don't have anything bad for customs to worry about, except I just hate the idea of customs.

If it mattered to the airlines, I guess they could create an international transfer waiting hall and pick up intl transfer passengers with a bus and then again with the bus to the departure gate. Clearly anything else isn't possible as the main gate area is domestic territory with exits anywhere, not international territory with exits going through immigration, as it is the case in European airports. But they don't seem to care, and that's probably because there is not enough demand.

Good that my outbound flight is so late so I shouldn't have a problem to leave myself a good amount of hours for this transfer.

Hipplewm

To make it even easier, we pre clear from Canada, so you pull up to a regular gate

same for some central america and maybe SA places as well - but I am not as familiar with them

sbm12

No, they cannot. US law prohibits this.