HeelLaw

I have ongoing concerns about the moderation of this forum, particularly as it pertains to discussions about Northwest's failures or weaknesses. Often, one moderator in particular defends NW vehemently in a thread and then later shuttles these threads to other, lesser-read forums, without so much as a trace here.

This moderator also frequently posts what could best be described as "inside information" -- things that are coming down the pike (i.e. information not generally available to the rest of us.

My concern is that one or more moderators have some sort of financial connection with NW (beyond that of the rest of us, i.e. mileage equity) that clouds their objectivity in moderating the forum. It would be difficult to explain the behavior otherwise...particularly when off-topic posts are allowed to remain for days and months. (In other words, it's not simply the case of zealous or overzealous moderation generally, but seems specifically targeted at negative discussion of Northwest as a company.)

I know that there are others that share this concern.

It would be helpful for all of us if we have a clear understanding of who is moderating this forum...would the moderators mind disclosing:

1. If any of them (or immediate family members) work for Northwest, affiliated company, or other airline.

2. If any of them (or immediate family members) own significant shares in Northwest.

I apologize if this seems like I'm 'calling someone out,' it is not my intention, but rather I think that we're all entitled to know any alterior motives for rather odd moderation of the forum.

Thanks

trader475

I doubt there's any financial interest involved - much more likely it's the unmerited mindset that a customer who flies a given airline is part of the 'team' rather than someone paying money for a service. It's similar to people who donate to politicians; they call the politicians 'friends' while the politicians call them 'contributors' and the contributors are just as defensive about the people they've given money to.


The better question is what's the batting average of the 'inside information' ever turning into a fact.



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thezipper

I do not work for nwa, any of its subsideraries or any other airline

I own one share in NWA and thats more of a conversation piece for my wall in my place, plus it gets the 10K sent to me

There are no ulterior motives, I got introduced to senior NWA management at the Freddie Awards a few years back by Randy. Since that time I've fostered a very cordial relationship, and they have been very forthcoming and open.

... sorry there's no smoking gun

thezipper
NWA Moderator

fromYXU

As if the impact of this forum will affect financial outcome of NW. Take everything you read on any of these forums with a grain of salt and you will be fine. If you don't like it, don't read it.

Please, relax. Where is the valium...

HeelLaw

Actually, there are some things that I would like to read and discussions that I'd like to be part of that keep disappearing (the ones that are moderately negative towards NW). That was kind of my point.

No, I don't think it's ridiculous to assume that very frequent NW fliers visit this forum, nor do I think it's ridiculous to think that the business of those very frequent fliers may be influenced by what is said here.

All I'm asking is whether or not those people who decide what we do and don't read have an agenda as more than simply a frequent flier. I don't think it's an unfair question in light of odd and inconsistent moderation.

Radiocycle

[QUOTE=HeelLaw]I have ongoing concerns about the moderation of this forum, particularly as it pertains to discussions about Northwest's failures or weaknesses. Often, one moderator in particular defends NW vehemently in a thread and then later shuttles these threads to other, lesser-read forums, without so much as a trace here.

Answer: The Newsstand is not a "lesser Read Forum" It is "another FT Forum" however it has a large following that incompasses all the airline forums as well as all of the other forums at FT. There are always two sides to a coin. Many times an issue arises and it is negatively reported. Often there are reasons that have not been presented involved in the issue. I try and furnish pertinent information, when I have information that is relevent. Other moderators do the same.

This moderator also frequently posts what could best be described as "inside information" -- things that are coming down the pike (i.e. information not generally available to the rest of us.

Answer: I will speak for myself here, I know many NWA employees including executives in Eagan as well as Pilots, GA's, FA's, and other frontline employees. Often I will ask for, and receive information from these people, much the same as a reporter for the NY Times, WSJ, Wash Post would. The purpose of asking for clarification from these sources is to be able to provide information to this FT forum.

My concern is that one or more moderators have some sort of financial connection with NW (beyond that of the rest of us, i.e. mileage equity) that clouds their objectivity in moderating the forum. It would be difficult to explain the behavior otherwise...particularly when off-topic posts are allowed to remain for days and months. (In other words, it's not simply the case of zealous or overzealous moderation generally, but seems specifically targeted at negative discussion of Northwest as a company.)

Answer: Sometimes a post will be addressing a issue or incident that the OP has brought up and presents a specific point of view. If anyone knows something about the subject and can add to it, then they do. We (Moderators) also post as individuals and unless our posts are signed with our name and "NWA Moderator" you should treat our posting as individual and not as a moderator.

Note: We do not have a second screen name for personal postings.


I know that there are others that share this concern.

It would be helpful for all of us if we have a clear understanding of who is moderating this forum...would the moderators mind disclosing:

1. If any of them (or immediate family members) work for Northwest, affiliated company, or other airline.

Answer: I do not work for NW and my only interaction is as a pax who has flown 1,200,000 ("butt in Seat") Domestic Statue miles

2. If any of them (or immediate family members) own significant shares in Northwest.

Answer: I own a small amount of NW stock, it is in a Roth IRA account and I intend to leave it there until 2028 (at the earliest)

I apologize if this seems like I'm 'calling someone out,' it is not my intention, but rather I think that we're all entitled to know any alterior motives for rather odd moderation of the forum.

Answer: There are rules and structures to BB's and the FT TOS are often ignored by Ft members. We (The Moderators) participate in Moderating the boards as "volunteers" and are paid nothing by FT or NWA for our efforts. We all have other full time jobs and this is a part time position. Often (speaking for myself) I am out of the country or otherwise unable to paticipate on FT for 3-4 days at a time. We donate our time, but our time is sometimes commited to other responsibilities, accordingly we are not always online and able to respond immediately to every request. Also we don't always monitor ever topic or post in realtime.

Thanks[/QUOTE

Radiocycle
NWA Moderator

SPN Lifer

I think this is a very valid question, given the experiences described, and that we have all witnessed over the years.

However, technically questions about moderation are supposed to be dealt with in the Only Randy Petersen forum, so I would expect this thread to eventually be moved there.

I trust there is enough understanding of the process that a moderator would not unilaterally lock this thread.

Cycleradio

HeelLaw - Outstanding effort. All of my buddies & I have been very puzzled by the clear & obvious "angle" imposed by the powers that be.

HeelLaw

RC,

Thank you for your understanding and your post.

Am I correct in assuming then that none of your family members are NW employees or large stakeholders?

I'm sorry that you objected to the characterization of Newstand. The total views for the NW forum is something like 110K. The total views for Newstand is 59K. I think it's fair to call it "lesser-read."

One of my concerns is why, if you feel that Newstand is the best place for a thread, you cannot simply move it there with a "MOVED" tag in the NW forum. Certainly it's possible, we've seen it done all the time. Instead, these posts disappear from the NW without a trace.

Additionally, perhaps you could explain why, often in posts like this, you'll engage in conversation (always backing up the corporation) with it and then at a later time decide that it's inappropriate for the forum. It would seem that if it's inappropriate, it's inappropriate from the get-go and not just after people post comments that reflect negatively on the corporation. It gives the impression that you're willing to engage in conversation about the subject until it gets negative enough to make it disappear. I'm sure that's not your intention.

Finally, perhaps you or another moderator could explain why we're enforcing this Newstand rule very strictly, but allow completely off-topic posts (such as the one about couples sitting together) that have little, if anything, to do with Northwest or WorldPerks.

I appreciate the service of all the moderators -- it's a time consuming endeavor that I wouldn't wish upon myself. I do, however, feel that my concerns, and those of others, are worthy of address here for the NW forum regulars to see.

Thanks again.

tcook052

I wish ORP was still the venue it once was but discussion there has been recently stifled as there haven't been any new topics permitted for some time.

And as to

Who decides what is negative and what isn't? The NW forum Mod.'s? I would've thought the good folk here intelligent enough to decide for themselves what to believe and what not to about a particular story with out it being filtered for them. I always thought all topics about an airline & its FFP was open for discussion, warts and all.

On the issue of moderation, I appreciate the volunteer efforts FT Mod.'s contribute on a daily basis. But I would hope not agreeing with everything a Mod. says or does wouldn't make someone anti-Mod. by default.

NoStressHere

I was ready to jump in and DEFEND the moderators at all costs. I have been one in the past(not on FT), and it takes time, patience and thought about what to do with other peoples postings. Though Freedom of Speech is the primary rule, there are people that just plain cross the line and need to be told to SHUT UP.

Anyway, I do have a question about threads that disappear and go elsewhere. Since it is totally gone, I guess we do not see it and do not know enough about it. Even though I have spent time on at least 15 different forums, I never hear of NEWSTAND. Hmmmmm...

I know other threads say moved with the original post still in place, until if rolls off the current list.

SPN Lifer

I am not a moderator, but I have made a post in the "sitting-together thread" arguing that it is indeed very relevant to the effective use of NW Frequent Flyer Program benefits. If the NW forum display is sorted by "number of views," one will see that there is a high degree of interest in this aspect of WorldPerks.Sorry, I haven't been there in a good long while. Hopefully, our helpful moderators will then allow this thread to remain open.

I certainly do not want it thought that I do not appreciate the efforts of our Moderator Corps.

I also agree that a "moved" link, when needed, is far preferable to threads simply disappearing. This will help educate us on what topics are appropriate for where, and perhaps cause a moderator to ask if too much moving is going on.

kb1992

I am afraid that your characterization of NW board moderation is grossly distorted.

Since joining FT in 2003, I have been a vocal critic of NW on many issues ranging from NW's China market strategy to difficulty of international upgrades, from the proliferation of CRJs to increased mileage requirement for WBC award tickets. Often my posts contain sharp criticism towards the airline and WP program. I have never been discouraged, not even slightly, by any of the moderators including Radiocycle.

I do notice that NW board seems to be more pro-airline than CO and DL boards. However, to say that this has anything to do with NW moderators is truly absurd. It is well-known to FTs that CO and DL have repeated alienated its elites (50% EQM/MQM, greater difficulty in EUA, and numerous "enhancements", for example). On the other hand, NW does not play games with its elites and does not promise something it can't generally deliver. It does not surprise me that most FTs flying NW (including quite a few who "defected" from CO/DL) are happy with the airline in general.

NW board is one of the most civilized FT board and personal attacks are rare. All moderators of NW board deserve credit for their diligent work.

We could debate whether a thread belongs to NW or Newsstand. We could discuss if it is appropriate to ask the question whether FT moderators work for a particular airline.

However, to request that FT moderators reveal their family members' information is totally uncalled for. Such a demand is not only a blunt invansion to privacy, but also violates FT rules. According to

http://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php

Posts that request persons to submit personal information will also be removed.

Anyone who cannot accept these rules should simply leave the FT forum.

IMHO, you owe an apology to NW moderators.

hoyateach

*applause* Well said, Professor Elite. ^ (please note that I used only one thumbs up ) I've seen a lot more positive feedback about NW initiated by regular forum participants than in any other board, especially NW's Skyteam partners. Anything news-related (a write-up in a newspaper, say) should be posted in Newsstand. Those are the rules, as I understand them.

I would ask, however, that news articles pertaining to NW be cross-posted here as Newsstand does not enjoy the same levels of patronage as this board does. It's about maximizing the reach of information. As for the OP's implicit accusation of censorship... I haven't seen any, as far as I can tell. And I'd be the first to quit FT if any censorship did in fact occur.

HeelLaw

hoyateach,

With all due respect, the fact that you don't see it is exactly my point.