Question about any financial stake in NW of forum moderators
Apr 10, 2005, 10:16 pm
#16
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: DL tin elite flying between TYS -VIE / ILZ / BTS
Programs: DL, ZSR, MHD ;)
Posts: 938
HeelLaw
But the point is that in your post you said
and then ask for moderators' and their family members' private data. By doing so you acted outside of the FT rules.
I do think that you owe an appology to the mods.
At the same time you should feel free to open this discussion again, but with a better opening post. Apparently there is something that's bothering you. So, please let it out, but make a better try. Because this was NOT a good one.
But the point is that in your post you said
My concern is that one or more moderators have some sort of financial connection with NW (beyond that of the rest of us, i.e. mileage equity) that clouds their objectivity in moderating the forum.
I do think that you owe an appology to the mods.
At the same time you should feel free to open this discussion again, but with a better opening post. Apparently there is something that's bothering you. So, please let it out, but make a better try. Because this was NOT a good one.
Apr 10, 2005, 10:20 pm
#17
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Programs: NW, MR SE,
Posts: 385
Mr. HeelLaw,
Thank you for your great concern about the actions supposedly taken by the moderators here to move/delete certain posts. Remember this group, just as any other groups, is run by volunteers and is not forced upon anyone. You yourself indicated you did not want to do the job yourself. So as BOS-NWA indicated, you are free to go elsewhere, IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU SEE HERE.
I'm not usually this negative, BUT there is only so much one would care to see, having similar posts about the appropriateness of certain posts being in the NW group in numerous other postings.
I think this is another example of someone related with LAW business leaving a sour taste in one's mouth. Sorry to get down and dirty.
HJ
Thank you for your great concern about the actions supposedly taken by the moderators here to move/delete certain posts. Remember this group, just as any other groups, is run by volunteers and is not forced upon anyone. You yourself indicated you did not want to do the job yourself. So as BOS-NWA indicated, you are free to go elsewhere, IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU SEE HERE.
I'm not usually this negative, BUT there is only so much one would care to see, having similar posts about the appropriateness of certain posts being in the NW group in numerous other postings.
I think this is another example of someone related with LAW business leaving a sour taste in one's mouth. Sorry to get down and dirty.
HJ
Apr 10, 2005, 10:25 pm
#18
Join Date: May 2003
Location: RDU
Programs: TSA/INS/FBI Platinum (stopped last 12 of 13 int'l returns - the computer broke once)
Posts: 2,638
How about just having the policy to leave the "bread crumb trail" link for any thread that's moved (as long as it has any marginal reference to NW)? They'll fall off the first few pages soon enough anyway.
It'll help those that originally posted them find the thread, and potentially introduce some of them to the other threads on the system, like Newsstand or Skyteam.
It'll help those that originally posted them find the thread, and potentially introduce some of them to the other threads on the system, like Newsstand or Skyteam.
Apr 10, 2005, 10:28 pm
#19
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 205
Silly topic. Silly thread.
We are all entitled to our paranoide delusions, but couldn't they please be moved do the Paranoid Delusion forum?!?
O.K. I ADMIT IT! I WORK FOR NORTHWEST AIRLINES!!!!!
(not!)
We are all entitled to our paranoide delusions, but couldn't they please be moved do the Paranoid Delusion forum?!?
O.K. I ADMIT IT! I WORK FOR NORTHWEST AIRLINES!!!!!
(not!)
Apr 10, 2005, 10:38 pm
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,768
To Moderators, I apologize for soliciting "personal" information. I didn't think that what I was asking was inherently "personal," which I would think was name, telephone, email, etc. I was just asking general questions which I thought were relevent in an attempt to figure out what's going on with the inconsistent moderating. If you disagree, feel free to edit my posts.
To those who feel the need to attack me personally or my chosen profession, I would hope that you could contribute substantively to the discussion. Nothing is gained from personal attacks or from the overused and predictable "if you don't like it, leave." I'd rather try to change it for the better -- if the change doesn't occur, then I can decide whether or not it's worth my time.
If after raising these concerns, they're brushed aside and not shared by other members, I apologize for wasting everyone's time. I do not subscribe to the theory that if you don't like something, you should just accept it and leave, but rather that a dialogue can be opened and hopefully things can improve.
I still feel that my concerns have merit, although perhaps I did not frame it in the best way possible.
Namely, I wonder why:
1) Moderators are willing to engage in discussion and then, at a later time, move them to other forums. If they are in the wrong place, then they are in the wrong place to begin with, right?
2) Why certain threads, namely those which paint NW in a negative light, are moved to a, yes, lesser-read forum without a trace, when other posts that are moved are shown to have been moved.
3) Why topics that do not relate to the Northwest Worldperks program are not closed/moved/deleted. This seemingly inconsistent moderation is particularly concerning when compared to the harsh line taken with "newstand" stories that are not favorable to NW.
Again, my apologies if I have offended or broken forum rules. I did not think that I was asking for "personal" information.
To those who feel the need to attack me personally or my chosen profession, I would hope that you could contribute substantively to the discussion. Nothing is gained from personal attacks or from the overused and predictable "if you don't like it, leave." I'd rather try to change it for the better -- if the change doesn't occur, then I can decide whether or not it's worth my time.
If after raising these concerns, they're brushed aside and not shared by other members, I apologize for wasting everyone's time. I do not subscribe to the theory that if you don't like something, you should just accept it and leave, but rather that a dialogue can be opened and hopefully things can improve.
I still feel that my concerns have merit, although perhaps I did not frame it in the best way possible.
Namely, I wonder why:
1) Moderators are willing to engage in discussion and then, at a later time, move them to other forums. If they are in the wrong place, then they are in the wrong place to begin with, right?
2) Why certain threads, namely those which paint NW in a negative light, are moved to a, yes, lesser-read forum without a trace, when other posts that are moved are shown to have been moved.
3) Why topics that do not relate to the Northwest Worldperks program are not closed/moved/deleted. This seemingly inconsistent moderation is particularly concerning when compared to the harsh line taken with "newstand" stories that are not favorable to NW.
Again, my apologies if I have offended or broken forum rules. I did not think that I was asking for "personal" information.
Apr 10, 2005, 11:00 pm
#21
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: BSB
Programs: DL 2 MM
Posts: 4,914
My Best Attempt at Answering your questions
Originally Posted by HeelLaw
I still feel that my concerns have merit, although perhaps I did not frame it in the best way possible.
Namely, I wonder why:
1) Moderators are willing to engage in discussion and then, at a later time, move them to other forums. If they are in the wrong place, then they are in the wrong place to begin with, right?
Answer: Moderators post as individual FTers, We post a higher % of our own posts, we post as Moderators as needed.
Examples:
#1: I posted as an individual FTer to the topic that was subsequently moved (by me, as a NWA Moderator) but originally I saw the topic on my Blackberry PDA and posted. Later when the OP questioned why it wasn't relocated to The Newsstand I looked at the topic and realized it should be moved, and moved it in my capacity as a moderator.
#2 When the topic was moved a redirect link was established in the NWA forum, so you can find the topic easily in the NW forum. It is there right now, it didn't disappear as has been stated early in this topic.
2) Why certain threads, namely those which paint NW in a negative light, are moved to a, yes, lesser-read forum without a trace, when other posts that are moved are shown to have been moved.
Answer: Threads are only moved when they are (in the interpretation of the moderators) in volation of the FT TOS. Very few threads are moved, most threads stay where they start.
There is an option to redirect or not redirect a topic. Depending on whether the topic being moved is being relocated or if the thread is being removed because it violates the FT TOS a redirect link is or isn't established. This is a moderator decision.
3) Why topics that do not relate to the Northwest Worldperks program are not closed/moved/deleted. This seemingly inconsistent moderation is particularly concerning when compared to the harsh line taken with "newstand" stories that are not favorable to NW.
Answer: Most topics relating to Northwest are addressed in the NWA forum. Consider a topic asking about new weight limits on baggage, technically it isn't about Worldperks, but it is a Northwest forum issue, it is answered and considered appropiate.
The Newsstand Forum is intended for all news links about travel. There is no other way to consolidate the news link topics on FT. If this was your Travel BB how would you consolidate all the news link topics?
Again, my apologies if I have offended or broken forum rules. I did not think that I was asking for "personal" information.
Namely, I wonder why:
1) Moderators are willing to engage in discussion and then, at a later time, move them to other forums. If they are in the wrong place, then they are in the wrong place to begin with, right?
Answer: Moderators post as individual FTers, We post a higher % of our own posts, we post as Moderators as needed.
Examples:
#1: I posted as an individual FTer to the topic that was subsequently moved (by me, as a NWA Moderator) but originally I saw the topic on my Blackberry PDA and posted. Later when the OP questioned why it wasn't relocated to The Newsstand I looked at the topic and realized it should be moved, and moved it in my capacity as a moderator.
#2 When the topic was moved a redirect link was established in the NWA forum, so you can find the topic easily in the NW forum. It is there right now, it didn't disappear as has been stated early in this topic.
2) Why certain threads, namely those which paint NW in a negative light, are moved to a, yes, lesser-read forum without a trace, when other posts that are moved are shown to have been moved.
Answer: Threads are only moved when they are (in the interpretation of the moderators) in volation of the FT TOS. Very few threads are moved, most threads stay where they start.
There is an option to redirect or not redirect a topic. Depending on whether the topic being moved is being relocated or if the thread is being removed because it violates the FT TOS a redirect link is or isn't established. This is a moderator decision.
3) Why topics that do not relate to the Northwest Worldperks program are not closed/moved/deleted. This seemingly inconsistent moderation is particularly concerning when compared to the harsh line taken with "newstand" stories that are not favorable to NW.
Answer: Most topics relating to Northwest are addressed in the NWA forum. Consider a topic asking about new weight limits on baggage, technically it isn't about Worldperks, but it is a Northwest forum issue, it is answered and considered appropiate.
The Newsstand Forum is intended for all news links about travel. There is no other way to consolidate the news link topics on FT. If this was your Travel BB how would you consolidate all the news link topics?
Again, my apologies if I have offended or broken forum rules. I did not think that I was asking for "personal" information.
Radiocycle
NWA Moderator
Last edited by Radiocycle; Apr 10, 2005 at 11:02 pm
Apr 10, 2005, 11:25 pm
#22
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 5,075
Originally Posted by BOS-NWA
I am afraid that your characterization of NW board moderation is grossly distorted.
...
I have never been discouraged, not even slightly, by any of the moderators including Radiocycle.
...
I have never been discouraged, not even slightly, by any of the moderators including Radiocycle.
I've never had this happen to me, so what you think is happening must be grossly distorted?
--
On another note, is it possible for answers from the moderators to not be embedded in another poster's quotations? It makes for posts awfully hard to read.
If it's intentional, then it is rather malicious to misquote someone.
If it's not intentional, then perhaps one should brush up on how to use vB code or not quote at all.
Last edited by keithguy; Apr 10, 2005 at 11:29 pm
Apr 10, 2005, 11:32 pm
#23
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: fort worth, tx AA Gold,Best Western-Diamond, HH- Gold, Marriott-Silver
Posts: 2,737
two sides again
Heel law,
I agree with your inent. I do believe that there are posts that have inherent value to NW customers that are moved and others that would fit much more nicely in a "general" forum such as Newstand or Milebuzz that stay in the NW forum.
RC,
I also agree that you feel the policy is to move ANY and ALL posts that have a newslink to the Newstand forum.
This seems to be the long and the short of this discussion.
I have been a contributing member for several years. I read the "rules" and Terms and Conditions when I signed up. I have recently read the FAQ about where to post items. I do not claim to nor do I wish to; read every piece of policy issued on the Flyertalk board. However, as hard as I have tried to find a policy or a term and condition, or even an answer to a FAQ that suggests that every thread with a news link must be posted in Nesstand I can not come across it.
This is what I have found under FAQ "Posting Guidelines":
Where's the best place to post my topic?
You should look at whether or not your post deals specifically with a company, program or location. If it does, then you should post in that company's/location's forum. The more general forums, such as MilesBuzz, are meant as catch-alls for topics that don't specifically deal with a program/company/location.
ex. You want to start a thread announcing a 10,000-mile Air Canada promotion. Although this would have a home in MilesBuzz, it has a better home in Air Canada's own forum. This separation of forums makes it more convenient for people interested in Air Canada issues, rather than having them search through a generic forum to find things related specifically to their program.
and this about news:
What is your stand on the issue of posting news?
We understand that certain news is protected by copyright and would always suggest that any member posting news try to link to the original source of the information, give proper credit to the source of the information and/or give a brief recap of the news and provide the appropriate link. FlyerTalk has no commercial interest in any news posted on its Web site and would ask that members respect the origin of the news itself.
My reading of these two topics says that it is OK to post news about a specific company, program or location in that company, program or locations forum. In fact my interpretation is that is where it should be posted and if it is of a more general nature or addresses more than one company, program or location it should go in a more general forum.
If there is something that I am missing that contradicts or corrects the above FAQ's please post it so that we can answer this question once and for all.
I don't think Heellaw or RC is out of line, I just think there is a communication problem occuring.
At the very least, maybe there should be an exception to the "crossposting" rule that would allow the news story to be posted in both the "home" forum of the story and the "newstand". That would allow those that only read the newstand to follow it, and those like me that only read the forums of the companies that I use to follow it.
I agree with your inent. I do believe that there are posts that have inherent value to NW customers that are moved and others that would fit much more nicely in a "general" forum such as Newstand or Milebuzz that stay in the NW forum.
RC,
I also agree that you feel the policy is to move ANY and ALL posts that have a newslink to the Newstand forum.
This seems to be the long and the short of this discussion.
I have been a contributing member for several years. I read the "rules" and Terms and Conditions when I signed up. I have recently read the FAQ about where to post items. I do not claim to nor do I wish to; read every piece of policy issued on the Flyertalk board. However, as hard as I have tried to find a policy or a term and condition, or even an answer to a FAQ that suggests that every thread with a news link must be posted in Nesstand I can not come across it.
This is what I have found under FAQ "Posting Guidelines":
Where's the best place to post my topic?
You should look at whether or not your post deals specifically with a company, program or location. If it does, then you should post in that company's/location's forum. The more general forums, such as MilesBuzz, are meant as catch-alls for topics that don't specifically deal with a program/company/location.
ex. You want to start a thread announcing a 10,000-mile Air Canada promotion. Although this would have a home in MilesBuzz, it has a better home in Air Canada's own forum. This separation of forums makes it more convenient for people interested in Air Canada issues, rather than having them search through a generic forum to find things related specifically to their program.
and this about news:
What is your stand on the issue of posting news?
We understand that certain news is protected by copyright and would always suggest that any member posting news try to link to the original source of the information, give proper credit to the source of the information and/or give a brief recap of the news and provide the appropriate link. FlyerTalk has no commercial interest in any news posted on its Web site and would ask that members respect the origin of the news itself.
My reading of these two topics says that it is OK to post news about a specific company, program or location in that company, program or locations forum. In fact my interpretation is that is where it should be posted and if it is of a more general nature or addresses more than one company, program or location it should go in a more general forum.
If there is something that I am missing that contradicts or corrects the above FAQ's please post it so that we can answer this question once and for all.
I don't think Heellaw or RC is out of line, I just think there is a communication problem occuring.
At the very least, maybe there should be an exception to the "crossposting" rule that would allow the news story to be posted in both the "home" forum of the story and the "newstand". That would allow those that only read the newstand to follow it, and those like me that only read the forums of the companies that I use to follow it.
Last edited by wldtrvlr; Apr 10, 2005 at 11:37 pm
Apr 10, 2005, 11:43 pm
#24
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 56,450
Originally Posted by wldtrvlr
I have been a contributing member for several years. I read the "rules" and Terms and Conditions when I signed up. I have recently read the FAQ about where to post items. I do not claim to nor do I wish to; read every piece of policy issued on the Flyertalk board. However, as hard as I have tried to find a policy or a term and condition, or even an answer to a FAQ that suggests that every thread with a news link must be posted in Nesstand I can not come across it.
Apr 10, 2005, 11:49 pm
#25
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: fort worth, tx AA Gold,Best Western-Diamond, HH- Gold, Marriott-Silver
Posts: 2,737
Originally Posted by keithguy
If it's not intentional, then perhaps one should brush up on how to use vB code or not quote at all.
I did not realize there were answers inside the quote since there was also text outside of it. I do not generally even read the quote if I have already read the entire thread.
I will try to use it on the next quote I answer with multiple questions.
Apr 11, 2005, 12:17 am
#26
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,884
My two cents:
I'm glad this discussion has been taking place. I won't publically disclose my opinions on this issue because they are not fully formed, based on a lack of data/information for me.
I will opine in this manner, though: Just because something has a "link" in it does not mean it does not belong in the NW forum, IMO. It may belong in the Newsstand because it is applicable to more than NW, but the NW FFers more often frequent this forum for general airline news, and this forum only. I speak only for myself, but I think my actions are generally similar to a broad majority of the NW FT population. Cross-posting should be encouraged. If nothing else, the thread should be moved with a link to that thread left in the original forum (NW WorldPerks, in this case), not just completely moving the thread with no notice or warning. Other modern bulletin board systems support this feature readily and if it isn't implemented in this board, it certainly should be.
Like many FTers, I do not have a large portion of time to frequent all of these boards on FT. I am grateful that they are here, but I cannot stay abreast on them all on a regular basis. As a primary NW customer, I check this forum and perhaps the Mileage Run forum on a regular basis; the other forums I check periodically.
But thanks for the discussion, guys. I agree with the general sentiment that, from what I've seen, the NW forum is one of the more courteous and respectful forums. Perhaps it's that Upper-Midwest niceness?
I'm glad this discussion has been taking place. I won't publically disclose my opinions on this issue because they are not fully formed, based on a lack of data/information for me.
I will opine in this manner, though: Just because something has a "link" in it does not mean it does not belong in the NW forum, IMO. It may belong in the Newsstand because it is applicable to more than NW, but the NW FFers more often frequent this forum for general airline news, and this forum only. I speak only for myself, but I think my actions are generally similar to a broad majority of the NW FT population. Cross-posting should be encouraged. If nothing else, the thread should be moved with a link to that thread left in the original forum (NW WorldPerks, in this case), not just completely moving the thread with no notice or warning. Other modern bulletin board systems support this feature readily and if it isn't implemented in this board, it certainly should be.
Like many FTers, I do not have a large portion of time to frequent all of these boards on FT. I am grateful that they are here, but I cannot stay abreast on them all on a regular basis. As a primary NW customer, I check this forum and perhaps the Mileage Run forum on a regular basis; the other forums I check periodically.
But thanks for the discussion, guys. I agree with the general sentiment that, from what I've seen, the NW forum is one of the more courteous and respectful forums. Perhaps it's that Upper-Midwest niceness?
Last edited by SchmutzigMSP; Apr 11, 2005 at 12:20 am
Apr 11, 2005, 1:41 am
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,330
As a casual visitor all I can say is Kudos to the NW Mods for leaving this thread open, and responding to the OP. ^
It would last 5 minutes in a few other Forums.
Glen
It would last 5 minutes in a few other Forums.
Glen
Apr 11, 2005, 5:52 am
#28
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Thailand
Programs: DLPlat;AA,BA,US
Posts: 510
Zipper...What's the 10K ? Miles??
Originally Posted by thezipper
I do not work for nwa, any of its subsideraries or any other airline
I own one share in NWA and thats more of a conversation piece for my wall in my place, plus it gets the 10K sent to me
thezipper
NWA Moderator
I own one share in NWA and thats more of a conversation piece for my wall in my place, plus it gets the 10K sent to me
thezipper
NWA Moderator
Did or does NW give 10k - 10,000 miles to owners of their stock - NWAC ???
A past promo or thank you...or is it their policy to do so??
Are there any other - if any - perks granted shareholders by NWAC???
Thanks for the info....as I am just curious....
TravelerJim
Apr 11, 2005, 5:57 am
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Some place in this wonderful world (usually at 39,000 ft in seat 1C)
Programs: CO Gold Elite / NW Gold Elite
Posts: 13,747
Originally Posted by travelerjim
Zipper,
Did or does NW give 10k - 10,000 miles to owners of their stock - NWAC ???
A past promo or thank you...or is it their policy to do so??
Are there any other - if any - perks granted shareholders by NWAC???
Thanks for the info....as I am just curious....
TravelerJim
Did or does NW give 10k - 10,000 miles to owners of their stock - NWAC ???
A past promo or thank you...or is it their policy to do so??
Are there any other - if any - perks granted shareholders by NWAC???
Thanks for the info....as I am just curious....
TravelerJim
Apr 11, 2005, 6:25 am
#30
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: RST
Programs: Delta Diamond; Hilton Diamond; Accor Gold
Posts: 4,839
Originally Posted by ozstamps
As a casual visitor all I can say is Kudos to the NW Mods for leaving this thread open, and responding to the OP. ^
It would last 5 minutes in a few other Forums.
Glen
It would last 5 minutes in a few other Forums.
Glen
The general tone of this board has often been described as friendly and congenial. There is lots of negative things to say about NW but little of it is constructive. I have no problem showing NW's warts and all but it also needs to be balanced with positive aspects of the airline. Some go more one way than others (either way). Have a quick look at other boards were some posters are put down on a regular basis, plain mean and destructive statements, one negative post after another.... Who needs that!
Lets keep this board (and the moderators) as is. Just because someone seems more positive than another (or more negative) simply needs to be kept in prespective. Overall the information on this board is great and comments are constructive. Well done!!! ^