Scott moves in with pack of Jaguars
Jul 24, 2002, 12:47 pm
#31
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,709
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by doc:
While there may well likely be some truth to what you are saying, and I do not wish to parse things too much here, all I'm claiming is that I personally did not see this as a totally isolated incident, nor as a cardinal sin! Moreover, I actually did not see Mark as being horribly offended in this case. I trust that he now knows/accepts that Oz meant no harm, as Oz indicated. Again, I do not know all the details here, and I could easily have missed something important and be wrong.
</font>
While there may well likely be some truth to what you are saying, and I do not wish to parse things too much here, all I'm claiming is that I personally did not see this as a totally isolated incident, nor as a cardinal sin! Moreover, I actually did not see Mark as being horribly offended in this case. I trust that he now knows/accepts that Oz meant no harm, as Oz indicated. Again, I do not know all the details here, and I could easily have missed something important and be wrong.
</font>
I don't know whether Mark was offended. His response could give one that impression...
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
I guess I'm not allowed to make an honest mistake without it turning into an international incident. I'm very sorry. I'll be more careful from now on and double check the forum before I post.
</font>
I guess I'm not allowed to make an honest mistake without it turning into an international incident. I'm very sorry. I'll be more careful from now on and double check the forum before I post.
</font>
As for the old "Oh, that's just Oz" argument, I don't buy it. Why should we be giving some users license to launch attacks? Why should some people be exempted from simple, common courtesy?
People seem unwilling to live with the "Oh, that's just <fill in>" for FAR less repulsive behavior.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
As I'd said, it was a simple, honest, mistake, based upon an unfortunate misconception, as I personally saw it!
</font>
As I'd said, it was a simple, honest, mistake, based upon an unfortunate misconception, as I personally saw it!
</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
The primary underlying problem here, IMHO, is perhaps in Oz showing minimal, if any, restraint when respoding to perceived attacks!
</font>
The primary underlying problem here, IMHO, is perhaps in Oz showing minimal, if any, restraint when respoding to perceived attacks!
</font>
It was a post about a football team in the wrong forum! That doesn't strike me as worthy of snotty remarks.
Oz showing minimal, if any, restraint is the underlying problem not just here, but elsewhere too. It is not the exception - it is the rule. Here is it just demonstrated more clearly.
At the very minimum, Mark deserves a pubic apology. Something genuine and unambiguous.
I'd like to see the same thing every time Oz decides to shoot first and ask questions later. Of course that much additional traffic would drive the post-count critics crazy, so you can never truly win. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
Jul 24, 2002, 12:59 pm
#32
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,709
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by rubbernyc:
... At some point one party has to stop the stupid attacks and comments. Where is that moderator when you need him/her? STOP THIS SILLY THREAD.</font>
... At some point one party has to stop the stupid attacks and comments. Where is that moderator when you need him/her? STOP THIS SILLY THREAD.</font>
You may agree or disagree, that's fine. Feel free to make your case.
------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
Jul 24, 2002, 3:34 pm
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 15,351
Doc,
I have always supported you and believe that in some ways you are wrong in this case.
In the past I never had ANY great sustained flame fests with anyone. As a matter of fact I used to support Oz in the past when he was attacked. I ask you then, why the hell was my name dragged into this Thread?
Because Oz has an agenda, and the mention of my name proves it. I have acted in concert with no one in the past or present and have never had the need to. (As a matter of fact a search into the not so recent past would show that I have not gotten along well with eith ScottC nor Smessier)OZ has attacked me on MANY occasions,lied and been quite offensive.
He claims not to have been able to send me an e-mail because it is not available on FT. This has not kept over 175 FT'ers from sending me e-mail's in the last two weeks-- ALL but One complimentary and supportive, One of which was anonymous and threatening --I wonder who sent that one??
To date he has never actually asked me for my e-mail, just accused me of not having it up and lampooning that fact. When this was put straight to him (and have the screen shots to prove it) he demurred and ran into his shell, this was witnessed by many on chat. It proved exactly how cowardly he could be when presented with his own duplicitousness.
I should mention that soon after the recent hostilities started I tried to be helpful to him on chat and gave him an unlisted number to assist him with hotels in Vegas (i.e. reduced rates and comps). Very briefly afterwards he continued his flaming behaviour on the boards towards me.
You yourself seem to have been able to dredge my e-mail out of the boards in the past so you know it to be so.
Having this thread turned into what it has become is further proof of his disrupting influence, and I am afraid that you are too good of a person to waste your concern on someone who acts like him.
I have always supported you and believe that in some ways you are wrong in this case.
In the past I never had ANY great sustained flame fests with anyone. As a matter of fact I used to support Oz in the past when he was attacked. I ask you then, why the hell was my name dragged into this Thread?
Because Oz has an agenda, and the mention of my name proves it. I have acted in concert with no one in the past or present and have never had the need to. (As a matter of fact a search into the not so recent past would show that I have not gotten along well with eith ScottC nor Smessier)OZ has attacked me on MANY occasions,lied and been quite offensive.
He claims not to have been able to send me an e-mail because it is not available on FT. This has not kept over 175 FT'ers from sending me e-mail's in the last two weeks-- ALL but One complimentary and supportive, One of which was anonymous and threatening --I wonder who sent that one??
To date he has never actually asked me for my e-mail, just accused me of not having it up and lampooning that fact. When this was put straight to him (and have the screen shots to prove it) he demurred and ran into his shell, this was witnessed by many on chat. It proved exactly how cowardly he could be when presented with his own duplicitousness.
I should mention that soon after the recent hostilities started I tried to be helpful to him on chat and gave him an unlisted number to assist him with hotels in Vegas (i.e. reduced rates and comps). Very briefly afterwards he continued his flaming behaviour on the boards towards me.
You yourself seem to have been able to dredge my e-mail out of the boards in the past so you know it to be so.
Having this thread turned into what it has become is further proof of his disrupting influence, and I am afraid that you are too good of a person to waste your concern on someone who acts like him.
Jul 24, 2002, 3:58 pm
#34
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: A Southern locale that ain't the South.
Programs: Bah, HUMBUG!
Posts: 8,014
Everyone, keep in mind at some point Randy will come through here and read this thread. Given this, some of you may wish to moderate your posts.
Jul 24, 2002, 5:22 pm
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fort Worth TX
Programs: Earned status with AA, DL, SPG, HH, Hyatt, Marriott, Seabourn, NCL, National, Hertz...I miss my bed!
Posts: 10,927
Geez... full moon time again already? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif
Jul 24, 2002, 6:46 pm
#36
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Monkeyville
Programs: Island DOs, very sticky toffee pud w vanilla ice cream n multi-coloured velvet pillows enthusiast
Posts: 4,647
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by techgirl:
Geez... full moon time again already? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif</font>
Geez... full moon time again already? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif</font>
Or this may just be the 'men' thing? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
(correct me if I am wrong, women never flamed each other on FT?)
Jul 24, 2002, 7:43 pm
#37
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: A Southern locale that ain't the South.
Programs: Bah, HUMBUG!
Posts: 8,014
You're wrong http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Jul 24, 2002, 8:39 pm
#38
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 46,817
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by techgirl:
Geez... full moon time again already? </font>
Geez... full moon time again already? </font>
Isn't it always a full moon, at least for some, here on FT! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
---
Perhaps we should all wait a bit for Oz to weigh in himself, no?
After all, I believe that he may well still be partying - or at least recovering from same:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/002276.html
And after all I'm not his attorney, and surely do not speak for him!
Jon- Again, Oz's response, IMHO, was not appropriate. Your remarks are well reasoned and not inaccurate. Regarding the parsing, it was meant to refer to me, rather than to you!
Yet I do personally think that there were some background mitigating factors. And that he is not alone in doing this, and thus should not be singled out, so to speak, for criticism.
Yet, to be sure, you make a valid point(s) and I do not dispute that it was improper. We should all expect, and insist upon showing, and getting simple, common courtesy.
I agree that an apology, as well as some indication that we can expect a bit more restraint in the future, is warranted and would be a very nice start!
Hfly- Thanks for the kind comment noting past support for me in general and for your well reasoned comments. I've always thought of you as being highly objective, stating clearly and respectfully what you think and feel.
Yes, it was incorrect and unfortunate that your name was sadly drawn into this thread. Indeed, you have always struck me as being quite independent. And I did follow the thread to which you allude, though I do not specifically recall commenting on it at the time. The email situation was most unfortunate. I really have no explanation and had you two exchanged emails at the time it would seemingly have helped immensely, IMHO.
Again, much of what I'd noted above with reference to Jon, applies here as well. Oz made a mistake - pure and simple. I trust that it will not prove to be a fatal one, but rather one that strongly motivates him to do better in showing more restraint in the future.
Let's all, as noted, please ask for the very same respectful behavior to be shown to all, by all. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Belle- I do not know specifically about women on women flaming per se, yet I do know of at least one very well know female flamer who has often attacked various other male FT'ers. What that means, with repect to your theory, who knows? I don't! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
I guess that everyone can not be as nice as you are! Have a great night all! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
-Mark
Jul 25, 2002, 4:12 am
#39
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Paris. - Fly, TAROM, fly !! -
Programs: Lots of shiny colors
Posts: 1,868
Yes darling, it seems it's the season again... how about some nice, tireing, outdoor activities for a while folks?
Jul 25, 2002, 7:47 am
#40
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,709
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by doc:
Yet I do personally think that there were some background mitigating factors. And that he is not alone in doing this, and thus should not be singled out, so to speak, for criticism.
</font>
Yet I do personally think that there were some background mitigating factors. And that he is not alone in doing this, and thus should not be singled out, so to speak, for criticism.
</font>
"Mitigating Circumstances", "That's just Oz", and the other hand-wringing to defend him has never chastened him. It has only emboldened him.
Look at how a some individuals, acting individually, who decided to call him on his frequent transgressions are labeled part of some vast conspiracy. It's positively Clintonian! The people who ask for a little self-restraint are called intolerant.
And as a result of this - as a result of being frequently asked to tone it down, you are trying to suggest that MORE lattitude must be given him?
I'm sorry Doc, I gotta disagree. It flies in the face of common sense. What you suggest is akin to suggesting that someone who has been repeatedly convicted of drunk driving be allowed a higher blood alcohol level before considered legally drunk. "That's just Joe, he always drinks and drives" "Of course Joe drinks too much and drives home - if you had his legal problems, you'd drink too!" "To hell with the problems he has caused, poor Joe is a victim!"
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
... We should all expect, and insist upon showing, and getting simple, common courtesy.
</font>
... We should all expect, and insist upon showing, and getting simple, common courtesy.
</font>
------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
Jul 25, 2002, 12:56 pm
#41
Founder of FlyerTalk
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 6,540
I've tried to understand what this thread is and where it belongs. It is not registering for me on FlyerTalk so will be set aside for further action when time is available for such. Quite puzzling.....